Dancer Archive
Thread: Trying to understand
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DocRand
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:10 pm
#1
Please understand that I am one of those "combat classes" that are generally clueless about what goes into being an entertainer. I'm looking to know more about the situation so that I can at least say I'm not part of the problem (if I actually get to teach others this information it may spread *shudders*).
I don't know how it is in the dance profession forum, but generally those that ask "normal" questions get flamed, one star'ed to death, and beaten over the head for being a "noob" (I REALLY hate net slang). If that ends up happening to me here for this, I'm going to lose a lot of faith for entertainers. (On a side note 5 staring me would be a shocking act of kindness for agreeing with me and/or helping me understand.)
I'll knock out what may be the easy questions first.
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.
Drygo
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:36 pm
#2
DocRand wrote:
I don't know how it is in the dance profession forum, but generally those that ask "normal" questions get flamed, one star'ed to death, and beaten over the head for being a "noob" (I REALLY hate net slang). If that ends up happening to me here for this, I'm going to lose a lot of faith for entertainers. (On a side note 5 staring me would be a shocking act of kindness for agreeing with me and/or helping me understand.)
There's no way in hell the entertainers in this forum are gonna flame and one star you for this post.
I'll knock out what may be the easy questions first.
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
10K.
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
Either quickness buffs or accaragm. And, I don't know if you want to count this...but, clothing is very important to an entertainer, and most real entertainers are big on updating wardrobes as part of the performance.
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )
Not that everyone will admit this, but I will. Finding an entertainer these days can be difficult because there are so few of us. (I will explain later on down). So this is not a guarantee that you'll find one. But, yes, first you can ask if anyone is buffing the Cantina that you've entered. If nobody responds, and you see someone with either Master Dancer or Master Musician title up, then send them a /tell. Sometimes cantina spam is crazy, and I miss when people ask for buffs. Not everybody agrees, but I really prefer a /tell over asking in spatial. If there is an entertainer chat channel on your server, try asking there. I don't play on Ahazi, but maybe somebody else could help you out there. Also, the /register function now works. So, you can pull up your planetary map and see if there's a registered performer somewhere. And, last but not least, when you finally do find a buffer, make friends with them. In fact, make friends with as many buffers as you can so that you can pull up your friends list and see who's on for a buff. Most entertainers like being able to provide their friends with buffs. And, many will often give repeat customers discounts.
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
Absolutely not. Most ATK performers hate buffbots. I don't use them, and I will never tip them one credit.
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
See answer # 4.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
See answer # 4.
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
I'm not sure if I completely understand. But, many of us do wish there were more forms of advertisement.
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
The thing about BE enhanced clothing is that it's not really valuable to most entertainers. Wound healing happens so incredibly fast, that I probably wouldn't pay more than 100 credits for a piece of clothing just because it has +25 wound healing. I am willing to pay a fair amount for Battle Fatigue healing. But, for example, with my Twi'lek race stats, I already automatically heal BF at 115%. What we really want, which unfortunately BE's can't make, is mind enhancement for buffing.However, as to your other question, entertainers seem to really care about how they look. So, regardless of BE enhancement or not, I think most of us would love matching sets of clothes, and themed or "Team" clothes. I can't speak for everyone, but I try to stay in character, so I could see wanting the faction clothes. And, bands and dance troupes would definitely go for matching outfits of any variety. It really depends on people's personal color and clothing tastes.
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
I have no problem paying 5K for action/quickness buffs. Deals? Well, you'll definitely get a free buff from me.I mean, sometimes it's hard to find docs that are willing to do only action buffs. They don't want to break their set, which is why, more often than not I just end up drinking accaragm. But, docs willing to just give the buffs we need for dancing will be favored.
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
It's really easy, but so many people can't even do this. If you find an entertainer that can buff you, all you have to do is either say in spatial, or /tell them, "Could I buy a buff from you?" Right now most people have been so trained by bots that all they do is say "invite."
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
Well, in the past few months, I have seen so many combat players who have no clue that you do not have to be in a group to get buffed. It's because of what I said above, being trained by the bots. The only other thing, which I figured most people knew, but some of your questions made me think otherwise, is that 99% of "real" entertainers HATE BUFFBOTS WITH A PASSION. They clutter up our cantinas with spam, they take away all of our business, they've ruined our professions, and they've "trained" most of the population to treat us with a high degree of disrespect. And because of this, entertainers are so rare.
Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.
No problem. It was my pleasure.
Message Edited by Drygo on 03-11-2005 05:37 PM
Kyree-Sunrunner
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:40 pm
#3
Thank you for caring.
1. Most of us probably feel that we should have to have a base charge for the buffs. Take into consideration how much you will net from the hunting trip you're going to take while using these buffs, and give a percentage of that. Talk to us while we're buffing you... ask us in English. I think most people would be shocked at how grateful most live performers would be to see the words spelled out and a please in there somewhere.
2. I generally have to take a shot of accragram (sp) to get through a decent buff, but per buff, the cost is mimimal. Most of the consideration as far as I'm concerned is the fact that I've spent my time and skill points to be able to entertain and buff... that means I can't go out an run 10k missions.
3. Sounds like you're asking for buffs exactly the way I'd like to be asked.
4. The bot is there to make money, pure and simple. If you don't pay it, you don't get to use it. With live performers, we want more than just your money. We want you to have a good time and we want to hear your stories. Again, politeness goes a very long way, and I've given away more than a couple free buffs just because 'combat types' took a moment to interact pleasantly with me.
5. If you want to support ATK dancers, then don't use buffbots and don't bother tipping afk dancers. The afk dancers didn't earn a tip. If they had no customers, they would go away quicker than a 2 bit... er, nevermind that analogy.
6. Again, don't support afk by using their services. I've never run into this sort of thing before, so I don't know really how to answer.
7. I'm not sure what the question/idea is here.
8. I love a vendor that has accessories available to match major clothing items in stock.
9. I don't use action buffs, I use accragarrm (sp). That works just fine for me. If I wanted buffs for dancing, I'd use quickness and stamina buffs over action buffs.
10. "Hi, is anyone buffing this evening?"
10b. I think the thing that most of us feel is lacking between combatants and us is that we feel looked down on. Our profession is valid and many times we are treated like buff dispensers. Take a minute and realize that if there is actually someone behind their keyboard, that they are very likely a sensative person who chose the entertainment field because they love socializing and supporting our more active brothers. You don't have to propose marriage, or pay me millions of credits... just treat me like a person.
1. Most of us probably feel that we should have to have a base charge for the buffs. Take into consideration how much you will net from the hunting trip you're going to take while using these buffs, and give a percentage of that. Talk to us while we're buffing you... ask us in English. I think most people would be shocked at how grateful most live performers would be to see the words spelled out and a please in there somewhere.
2. I generally have to take a shot of accragram (sp) to get through a decent buff, but per buff, the cost is mimimal. Most of the consideration as far as I'm concerned is the fact that I've spent my time and skill points to be able to entertain and buff... that means I can't go out an run 10k missions.
3. Sounds like you're asking for buffs exactly the way I'd like to be asked.
4. The bot is there to make money, pure and simple. If you don't pay it, you don't get to use it. With live performers, we want more than just your money. We want you to have a good time and we want to hear your stories. Again, politeness goes a very long way, and I've given away more than a couple free buffs just because 'combat types' took a moment to interact pleasantly with me.
5. If you want to support ATK dancers, then don't use buffbots and don't bother tipping afk dancers. The afk dancers didn't earn a tip. If they had no customers, they would go away quicker than a 2 bit... er, nevermind that analogy.
6. Again, don't support afk by using their services. I've never run into this sort of thing before, so I don't know really how to answer.
7. I'm not sure what the question/idea is here.
8. I love a vendor that has accessories available to match major clothing items in stock.
9. I don't use action buffs, I use accragarrm (sp). That works just fine for me. If I wanted buffs for dancing, I'd use quickness and stamina buffs over action buffs.
10. "Hi, is anyone buffing this evening?"
10b. I think the thing that most of us feel is lacking between combatants and us is that we feel looked down on. Our profession is valid and many times we are treated like buff dispensers. Take a minute and realize that if there is actually someone behind their keyboard, that they are very likely a sensative person who chose the entertainment field because they love socializing and supporting our more active brothers. You don't have to propose marriage, or pay me millions of credits... just treat me like a person.
Etdentarie
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:43 pm
#4
1. I usually like to think something from 2 to 5k is fair.
2. To be able to flourish fast enough to get you a buff in the shortest amount of time a dancer/musician is going to need either a quickness buff or some Accargram(I know that is spelled horribly wrong)
3. There is the register command that, I believe, shows a sun sign next to continas with registered dancers in it. ALso a good way is to join your server's /ent channel (it is known by /ent on Kettemoor but other names on other servers)and ask. You should find the people there more than helpful.
4. Not wrong at all. I don't feel someone should get paid for not even being at the Keyboard.
5. Again, I don't find this wrong at all. Infact, I applaud you for it.
6. I'm not really familar with whar running a list means so I can't really answer this.
7. Well, I personally wouldn't want to become a breathing bilboard for my or anyone else's vendors, but to each his/her own.
8. Any and all clothes will always be bought up by dancers.
We love to look good. Themed clothes and outfits are always cool. BE clothes aren't really worth it. BF takes so long to heal that even if you heal the woulnds faster the people still have to sit around and wait.
9. Well, I have lots of doc friends that provide buffs for free. However, when I pay for then I usually take 2k to be a fair price. I'll pay slightly more if I'm really in need, but I've gone without many times because some docs refuse to give just one buff without the others.
10. The best way to ask is to ask nicely. Do NOT just walk in and invite a master dancer/musician without asking them for a buff and them consenting. Do NOT use abbreviations ie. Buff PLZ!!11!. If you want to send a tell that's fine, if you want to ask out loud that's also fine. Just make sure it is polite.
10b. The biggest thing you should know is that we don't have to invite you to a group to buff you. As long as there is just one of you we can /setperform instead. This saves us the hassle of having to drop the group we may already be in and is all around easier.
Thank you for such a well written and very nice post. We don't see many of those around here. If you need any more help feel free to send me a PM.
2. To be able to flourish fast enough to get you a buff in the shortest amount of time a dancer/musician is going to need either a quickness buff or some Accargram(I know that is spelled horribly wrong)
3. There is the register command that, I believe, shows a sun sign next to continas with registered dancers in it. ALso a good way is to join your server's /ent channel (it is known by /ent on Kettemoor but other names on other servers)and ask. You should find the people there more than helpful.
4. Not wrong at all. I don't feel someone should get paid for not even being at the Keyboard.
5. Again, I don't find this wrong at all. Infact, I applaud you for it.
6. I'm not really familar with whar running a list means so I can't really answer this.
7. Well, I personally wouldn't want to become a breathing bilboard for my or anyone else's vendors, but to each his/her own.
8. Any and all clothes will always be bought up by dancers.
We love to look good. Themed clothes and outfits are always cool. BE clothes aren't really worth it. BF takes so long to heal that even if you heal the woulnds faster the people still have to sit around and wait.9. Well, I have lots of doc friends that provide buffs for free. However, when I pay for then I usually take 2k to be a fair price. I'll pay slightly more if I'm really in need, but I've gone without many times because some docs refuse to give just one buff without the others.
10. The best way to ask is to ask nicely. Do NOT just walk in and invite a master dancer/musician without asking them for a buff and them consenting. Do NOT use abbreviations ie. Buff PLZ!!11!. If you want to send a tell that's fine, if you want to ask out loud that's also fine. Just make sure it is polite.
10b. The biggest thing you should know is that we don't have to invite you to a group to buff you. As long as there is just one of you we can /setperform instead. This saves us the hassle of having to drop the group we may already be in and is all around easier.
Thank you for such a well written and very nice post. We don't see many of those around here.
If you need any more help feel free to send me a PM.
DarkY0da
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:48 pm
#5
1. It varies from server to server and player to player. Many of us go with the old "Tip what you want." Since that can range from 100cr to 100k or more or nothing. Although if pushed to set a price I think most of us would set it in the 5-15k range.
2. The cost. The cost is one of the highest in the game. In time that is. It's not uncommon for ATK players to end up taking months and months to reach master. And that is with playing all the time. And in the end Time is what sets the cost of everything in this game. Beyond time though, for speed buffing(getting it done as quickly as can be done) most of us get doc quickness buffs, or Accaragma(darn it can't seem to spell it right today.).
3. Check the overhead Map. Most ATK Entertainers will register where ever they are at. It then shows a *(sun) next to the name of that cantina.(I'm sure Bots do this as well so... iffy.) Search. You can use the search function to try and find an entertainer. But it seems to work oddly so not that great. Most servers have an Entertainer chat channel. Finding what that channel is and pop in and ask.
As for just walking into a cantina. Best is to Just ask. Likely send a tell to anyone in a group there. With all the spam a lot of us just use group or guild chat.
4. Don't bother tipping them. They won't and can't ban you. As the AFK bot right next to them will still heal you. And most of those AFK ones are grinding Jedi they WANT the xp to turn in.
5. Get to know ATK entertainers so you don't feel like you have to use the AFK ones. And if you do use an AFK one bank tip the ATK ents you know instead.
6. Tip the ATK ones you know. AFK takes them little to no time other then copy/paste a macro then logging in and hitting a key.
7. Spam is Evil. Spam in Macros is like Jar jar being in Ep. 1.
8. BE clothing for Ents is extremely pointless. As it speeds up "wound healing". We already do that really fast. Even faster since that last publish when they sped it up even more.
9. The quickness buffs only need to be of fairly low quality for it to pretty much make our action costs nothing. But all sorts of things can be worked out.
10. Meet up with the Ent. Can I get buffed please ? or something that uses full words and is at least an attempt at being polite. Wait the less then 4 minutes needed for both. Tip. Leave.(chat if you feel like it.)
10b. You don't need to be grouped to get a buff. /watch, /listen, /stopwatch, /stoplisten.
2. The cost. The cost is one of the highest in the game. In time that is. It's not uncommon for ATK players to end up taking months and months to reach master. And that is with playing all the time. And in the end Time is what sets the cost of everything in this game. Beyond time though, for speed buffing(getting it done as quickly as can be done) most of us get doc quickness buffs, or Accaragma(darn it can't seem to spell it right today.).
3. Check the overhead Map. Most ATK Entertainers will register where ever they are at. It then shows a *(sun) next to the name of that cantina.(I'm sure Bots do this as well so... iffy.) Search. You can use the search function to try and find an entertainer. But it seems to work oddly so not that great. Most servers have an Entertainer chat channel. Finding what that channel is and pop in and ask.
As for just walking into a cantina. Best is to Just ask. Likely send a tell to anyone in a group there. With all the spam a lot of us just use group or guild chat.
4. Don't bother tipping them. They won't and can't ban you. As the AFK bot right next to them will still heal you. And most of those AFK ones are grinding Jedi they WANT the xp to turn in.
5. Get to know ATK entertainers so you don't feel like you have to use the AFK ones. And if you do use an AFK one bank tip the ATK ents you know instead.
6. Tip the ATK ones you know. AFK takes them little to no time other then copy/paste a macro then logging in and hitting a key.
7. Spam is Evil. Spam in Macros is like Jar jar being in Ep. 1.
8. BE clothing for Ents is extremely pointless. As it speeds up "wound healing". We already do that really fast. Even faster since that last publish when they sped it up even more.
9. The quickness buffs only need to be of fairly low quality for it to pretty much make our action costs nothing. But all sorts of things can be worked out.
10. Meet up with the Ent. Can I get buffed please ? or something that uses full words and is at least an attempt at being polite. Wait the less then 4 minutes needed for both. Tip. Leave.(chat if you feel like it.)
10b. You don't need to be grouped to get a buff. /watch, /listen, /stopwatch, /stoplisten.
PoetDancer
Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:57 pm
#6
DocRand wrote:
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)? Free.
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?) Nothing but my legs and my charming personality. Now, if you want me to get you out the door faster, you can stim me or buff me. Conversely, if I want to get you out of the door faster, I'll drink accagram. But all I need is time, my will to dance, and your will to sit through it. And tipping Madame for her good work isn't so bad of an idea either.
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" ) A lot of servers have a channel called /ent or something similar. A /search function is also provided. To tell you the truth dear, its harder and harder to find one, simply because its so hard to communicate in the venues, its so hard to get "truth in AFKing," and its hard to find dancers who are still doing things in the traditional ways.
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip. I'd have to say its wrong of players to not feel annoyed and not feel very angry when an AFK performer tries to hold the mechanics over your head as a barganning chip. Mechanics are free. And since they have nothing better to do with their macro-generated time, you don't need to give them any incentive to stay. Buffbots are boring, they know it, and the only way they can get you to tip them is by threatening you. They don't "work" for the tip. And trust me. Buffbots are not here because they need tips. They are here to make the buffbot owners powerful. And who knows if this owner will ban you anyways even if you tip the buffbot for reasons that only the buffbot owner knows...if you knew who the buffbot owner was. As I tell the dancers who play this thing live, "you catch more kreetles with carbosyrup than with sarlaac bile."
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less? To further support ATK performers more, it is wrong to tip AFK performersanything at all. Mechanics are free. They'd still be there issuing out buffs even if they never earn one credit. Don't play the fool for thinking that what they are doing is worth something. Its not.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them? If an entertainer is running an unattended list, its simply a ruse. Trust me. All another player need do is put another buffbot there and not ask for any tips, and that ruse is gone. Buffbots would be here and would buff you even if nobody tipped to get on a list. Don't be a fool and buy into lazy play. The Buffbot Briha on the Bria server is not the richest non-player in the game because she maintains a list. Its because she gives 125% music/dance buffs away for free that she is one of the richest non-players on Bria.
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing. I am tipped because players would rather see me in there rather than some boor. Advertising? Maybe if you all would sponsor a tour, but tatooed on macroed spam? That'll make getting tips even harder. Like I said, if you want a buff its free. But if you'd want to keep me in the cantina doing that instead of going elsewhere, you have to make my time there worthwhile.
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see? When I'm doing a formal, polished tour, I may get matching costumes for the troupe. But that's our call what we would want. Tastes and the effect we want to go for may vary.
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them? Nothing. I don't need them. My audience needs me to have them more than I do.
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so? Etiquitte varies, but if you are /watching me, and I'm not in a group, I'll simply /invite. If I am in a group, I'll /setperform if I know you are /watching. A big key is to disarm. We need to see the clapping animation in order to correctly sequence the buffing process.
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't? We do not sell products. We sell ourselves. What you can get out of your entertainer is entirely dependent on making him or her feel like they are being appreciated. It can be a kind word, an invitation to go to a POI, or a large financial incentive.
Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.
Thank you for a nice post, Jacobroberts! I'll try to answer the questions as best I can from my own perspective!
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-11-2005 08:35 PM
KaiaClodgah
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:26 pm
#7
Firstly, welcome to the dancer board
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
***Maybe this is why I’m essentially broke but I never ask for anything in exchange for my buffs. I tell them to tip what is far and it usually ranges between 2k-10k, though I have had several more “generous” donations, they have predominately been from members of my guild.
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
***I generally only buff per request rather than going and spending an evening at Dant MO or in Theed (it’s too heartbreaking to be treated like a bot) so I only use acca. And it’s been a while since I’ve bought a crate but I think it’s about 80k per crate or something like that.
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )
***Well, as the sun/moon method has been mentioned, you could use that. When you do find a live entertainer, ask if you can add her (or him, but they are rarer) to your friend’s list. Then the next time you need a buff, ask them (or any of the others you have on your list) where they are located for the evening. Chances are they will be happy to buff you, I know I always buff my friends rather than sending them off to a bot.
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
***Not wrong at all
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
***Why tip at all? Do you pay your computer when it prints a document? Do you pay your stereo when it plays a song? Pay Kinkos and pay cover to get in to see a band, don’t pay machines.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
***See my thoughts on paying bots….
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
***I don’t buff for the general public so I don’t really have an opinion on this one
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
***I look for colors that look good on my character rather than just what I prefer. For instance, I love purple but it’s clearly not her color, so unfortunately, I can’t buy her purple things.
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
***I pay about 3k only because a normal buff is about 12k and I only need 1/6 of that (so I’m actually over-paying)
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
***Be polite, realize that there is a human on the other side of the computer screen.
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
***Be respectful! ASK us politely for a buff, not “Invite PLZ!!!”
Thank you for wanting to learn. I wish all players could learn these things
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
***Maybe this is why I’m essentially broke but I never ask for anything in exchange for my buffs. I tell them to tip what is far and it usually ranges between 2k-10k, though I have had several more “generous” donations, they have predominately been from members of my guild.
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
***I generally only buff per request rather than going and spending an evening at Dant MO or in Theed (it’s too heartbreaking to be treated like a bot) so I only use acca. And it’s been a while since I’ve bought a crate but I think it’s about 80k per crate or something like that.
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )
***Well, as the sun/moon method has been mentioned, you could use that. When you do find a live entertainer, ask if you can add her (or him, but they are rarer) to your friend’s list. Then the next time you need a buff, ask them (or any of the others you have on your list) where they are located for the evening. Chances are they will be happy to buff you, I know I always buff my friends rather than sending them off to a bot.
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
***Not wrong at all
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
***Why tip at all? Do you pay your computer when it prints a document? Do you pay your stereo when it plays a song? Pay Kinkos and pay cover to get in to see a band, don’t pay machines.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
***See my thoughts on paying bots….
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
***I don’t buff for the general public so I don’t really have an opinion on this one
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
***I look for colors that look good on my character rather than just what I prefer. For instance, I love purple but it’s clearly not her color, so unfortunately, I can’t buy her purple things.
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
***I pay about 3k only because a normal buff is about 12k and I only need 1/6 of that (so I’m actually over-paying)
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
***Be polite, realize that there is a human on the other side of the computer screen.
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
***Be respectful! ASK us politely for a buff, not “Invite PLZ!!!”
Thank you for wanting to learn. I wish all players could learn these things
DanceRulez
Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:24 pm
#8
DocRand wrote:Please understand that I am one of those "combat classes" that are generally clueless about what goes into being an entertainer. I'm looking to know more about the situation so that I can at least say I'm not part of the problem (if I actually get to teach others this information it may spread *shudders*).
A perfectly reasonable question, and I would like to thank you not only for being brave enough to come in here to ask us, but also for doing so in a polite and courteous fashion.
I don't know how it is in the dance profession forum, but generally those that ask "normal" questions get flamed, one star'ed to death, and beaten over the head for being a "noob" (I REALLY hate net slang). If that ends up happening to me here for this, I'm going to lose a lot of faith for entertainers. (On a side note 5 staring me would be a shocking act of kindness for agreeing with me and/or helping me understand.)
I bet most of us here share your opinion of net slang, and I wouldn't worry about any dancers 1-starring your post, though no one is truly safe from the 1-star bandits. Drygo already gave you some excellent answers, but let me offer my opinions as well if I may.
I'll knock out what may be the easy questions first.
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
This can vary from person to person, and from server to server. I just do the dance buffs myself, but I think many people consider the dance (primary stat) and music buffs (secondary stats) to be worth the same. I typically ask 5k for a dance buff, though I reserve the right not to charge on my whim (though I don't respect the right of a patron not to pay on his or her whim once a fee has been agreed on).
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
Again this can depend on the entertainer and their own stat configuration. In the simplest form it requires nothing more from an entertainer than the slitherhorn they are granted on being a novice ent. In truth at least some if not all species can give a full buff using nothing more than a novice ent song or dance, which likely does not even require any stat buffs on the part of the entertainer to perform without stopping. What is required is the time and skill points spent to master one or both performance professions (Musician and Dancer) assuming you're talking about a standard 100% buff (and not a lesser 4000 level 90%, or whatever the number is, buff of some hybrid template).
Now above that if the entertainer wants more variety in their music/instrument/dance choices or needs to do more buffs back to back, he or she will want action heals or action enhancers such as accaragm or quickness doctor buffs. Many take double shots of accaragm for best results. In addition to that, many entertainers my try to add "entertainment value" to the buff with wardrobe and props, even effects droids so these would all add to the dancer's "cost".
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )
Asking politely is the best way just as you suggested. You may need to ask more than once, however, because you never know if your request may have gotten lost in a prospective buffers spatial chat or they may simply not reply immediately trying to give the opportunity to someone else who might be more interested or who might be more in need of earning credits. Also give a request in spatial a little time to receive an answer. Often times there are few live ents around, and perhaps the one in the cantina you've gone to might be taking a momentary break at the moment you asked, and will be happy to help you in a couple of minutes when they get back. I also agree that tells are a good way to supplement requests in spatial. For one thing it can help you determine who's live and who's not. Also I like that someone has taken the effort to "pick" me for a buff by sending me a tell.
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
Well most of us here have little patience or tolerance for AFK'ers so we couldn't care less what they demand or who they ban or not. I don't think any of us feel that tips should be "demanded". They should be earned for quality of services performed, and as far as we're concerned, the AFK'ers offer nothing but spam and macros where "quality" plays no part.
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
On this it really all depends on you. I'm not sure if people here will admit that there has been something of a double standard at times when it comes to tipping AFK'ers. I have seen some ents complaining about bots getting tipped and others complaining when bots don't get tipped! Ah well, the ultimate problem is of course the bots themselves. You'll have to decide for yourself what you think about tipping AFK performers. I think most live ents would probably say that you shouldn't tip a bot or AFK entertainer if for no other reason than not to encourage them. You might be in a situation where you get yourself buffed or healed by a bot and then turn around and tip a live entertainer who happens to be nearby even though you didn't take any services from them. There are even those AFK entertainers who fancy themselves as benevolent by claiming to take some or all of their profits and giving them to "live ents". I've never seen this done, and I'm not sure that I would accept such "charity" if offered it, but there is the possibility that some live ents may benefit by it. I know that seem people may feel obligated to tip something to an AFK'er simply as reimbursement for services offered, but ultimately it's up to you whether you think they should be tipped at all. In the long run I doubt it makes any difference either way, though you might feel better about one choice over the other.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
Not really sure what this is about, but I imagine my previous answer applies to this as well.
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
Again, not sure what this refers to either. I have seen spambots hawking free mind buffs near someone or other's vendor. These are just buffbots like any others. As far as dancers advertising themselves, sometimes we may send out periodic shouts or announcements that we are live and buffing or healing, but we generally don't like to clutter our play area with spam, and I'm not sure we'd want to add repeated advertisements to that.
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
As a tailor myself I can say that Drygo was correct. Basically the BE dancer enhancement is of little use to us. It effects only wound healing speed which has never been a major issue for us. BF healing would be more significant, but since mind wounds and BF often go hand in hand, unless you're healing both at an increased rate it really doesn't matter if you heal only one type faster. Dance or music mind enhancement would be much more useful BE mods. Until they change things so that BE enhancement are more useful for entertainer needs, the current entertainer enhancements will never be an important item. The matching outfits idea, however would good for entertainers, though your friend might want to try to see out some ent groups or bands to see what they would like in terms of matching outfits.
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
I have tipped 5 or 10k for a quickness buff before when I wanted one. Sometimes I get buffs that I don't ask for, and if I don't really plan to do anything with them, then I might not be inclined to tip, but if I have something in mind to use them for, then I'll tip something along that line unless it was done in exchange for a buff from me.
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
This has been covered pretty much already. Common courtesy is most important, otherwise refer to Drygo's reply.
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
There are a few things I could put here. I'd say courtesy is #1. Don't assume that all entertainers are bots and certainly don't treat a live ent like one. Believe it or not, most of us would like to help you. What we need from you is the understanding that we are real people with real lives just like you, and we want to have fun in the game too. As such we can't always be online to offer our services, and even when we are we may have our own things to do and may not be able to help you at a given moment.
The next time you find yourself heading to a bot, ask yourself, do I really *need* a mind buff or do I just want one? Have I actually made an effort to find and support a live entertainer, or am I in too much of a hurry to do so? By getting a buff from a bot am I possibly depriving myself of some of the challenge of the game by having to do "without" sometimes and learning ways of working around this? Would I be upset if my own profession were so easily replaced somehow by bots? And perhaps best of all, does the benefit of getting a buff from a bot ultimately justify the continued exploitation of a loophole in the game that makes two player professions obsolete spoiling the gameplay opportunities for the people who would like to play them, and even makes the problem of entertainer scarcity even worse by giving existing entertainers little reason to retain their profession and new entertainers little reason to try it? Ok, I'm getting preachy, but hopefully you'll get my point.
Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.
Thank you for caring and taking the time to ask. I hope my answers have helped you in some way.
DocRand
Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:33 pm
#9
First off I'd just like to say that I'm happily supprised with the responces I've gotten. I had a feeling it would end up that way but with how this game is sometimes I was prepaired for the worst. I figured I'd try to give as good of a responce as I can as it seems this is/could be an important issue for all of you. Who knows maybe it will get a sticky, letting others learn the same way I have. By all means if you feel this is a worth topic for others feel free to bump it. Please note that I'm very adapt at playing "good cop, bad cop".
(Answering responces in reference to the question numbers.)
1. (Cost for a mind buff) I'm thinking economics on the different servers have to be pretty different. It also depends on what the player plans on doing I guess too. 10k for me per hunting session (I'm not a hardcore speed hunter) would cut heavily into my bottom line (+ Doc Buff, + Arishia (sp) + Brandy + Mind Buff) to keep me alive as a Rifleman. (Yes I'm a doctor but avain meat, etc is far from cheep even if I just buff myself) I admit I end up skirting the food costs as I actively hunt for our chef's supplies. Even for the mind buff about 40% of the time our guildie is there (she's a new master and doesn't know some of these things, not her fault but I will help her with this new information.)
2. I guess I was wanting the cost of accagam/action buffs, but most of you have said they really aren't nessary due to the recent upgrade (as a doc I love the speed too). Like I said before I have a chef friend, so knowing a good price for the accagam would help me help you.
3. YEAH, I was not off the mark in how I went about asking. (It's reasurreing) Too bad none of you are on ahazi so I could find the "/ent" channel or whatever it is there.
4. I'm glad I'm not off the mark in feeling it's wrong to threaten, demand, ban, etc.
5. I like the suggestion of tipping an ATK from my friends list if I use a AFK bot. (Sometimes I just can't find a ATK where I am)
6. What I ment by a "running invite list" is everytime I ever go into the city where this entertainer is located (not even NEAR the cantina most of the time) I get an invite to her group because I'm on her "list". I instantly get grouped, and can get in and out generally quickly. After reading the responces I know now that A: This is BS due to not NEEDING to be in the group for a mind buff. and B: It's BS that I'm being threatened with being removed from the list to start with due to reason A. Threaten your customers, yeah that's a great idea.
7. Apon further review, my idea was a way for afk'ers to make more money. Since I'd much rather have a ATK'er and a ATK'er advertiseing could quite easily be confused with a bot.... Strike that idea as being overturned.
8. If I'm understanding the responces correctly, BE dance clothes are basically worthless for entertainers, and she's better off concentrating on making BE clothes that ARE useful instead. Also that matching sets are highly perfered.
9. Action buffs aren't as usefull to entertainers as I have been told before. (maybe a new change *shrugs*)
10. Not quite understanding what /setpeform does. I will make sure to disarm myself. More realistic now that I think about it. I just hope storm troopers don't flood in. LOL
Other thoughts...... Madame..... that sounds soooo familuar to me... did you used to be on ahazi, buff in theed, and wear a sun hat? If you did you were one of my favorite entertainers and it was sad when you left. (If I'm mistaken it wouldn't suprise me).
I agree with the 2-3k action buff "SET". I don't feel bad if I break them as long as it's all three. I normally only charge 8-10k depending on traffic at the space port and other docs there. Sorry no line jumps with me *boos*.
If your on ahazi send me a tell with your professions, I love networking people, or even just to say hi.
I hope this thread will help other in the combat classes who drop by. Thank you very much for the incite, I plan on useing it well and helping the others I know.
Doriana
Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:53 pm
#10
Hrm. Everyone else already answered the way I would so I'm not gonna repeat.
But I nominate you for our new best friend here!
But I nominate you for our new best friend here!
PoetDancer
Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:11 pm
#11
I was on Intrepid for awhile and now I am on Bria. Never been to Ahazi, though I do have to say that server would be one I wouldn't mind going to if things don't work out.
DocRand wrote:
Other thoughts...... Madame..... that sounds soooo familuar to me... did you used to be on ahazi, buff in theed, and wear a sun hat? If you did you were one of my favorite entertainers and it was sad when you left. (If I'm mistaken it wouldn't suprise me).
DocRand
Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:27 pm
#12
Bah, I had a feeling I was wrong, but it seemed so "De'ja'vu" ish to me. Oh well, needless to say that Entertainer was the fist one that shocked me by talking to me when I first started playing.
I offically execpt being the "best friend" of the board.
Your all offically grounded, none of you are from ahazi. (If you knew me you'ed know that everyone gets grounded or fired by me pretty much randomly. I even do it if good things are done.)
Thanks a bunch, if I ever go to another server I'll make sure to look you all up.
Chessack
Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:31 pm
#13
My answers on this:
I do not charge for buffs. On the other hand, I don't stand there buffing either. I entertain. If, while I am doing that, someone wants a buff, I give it, freely. I appreciate any tips I get but I do not request up-front payment. Personally I have found that telling people "no charge" usually results in them giving much bigger tips than I would've requested anyway.
My general rule would be, if I had to set a price... A full set of Doc buffs costs 12k. That's 2k per stat. A dancer can buff 1 stat, so 2k sounds fair(ish). It takes dancers longer to buff you but they use no real resources to do it. Docs buff you faster but use expensive resources to do it. So... I dunno. /shrug. When I tip for a mind buff on my alt character (which I almost never do) I tip generously -- usually 10k.
To give a single buff I require no food, no personal buffs of any sort, and no stims (though if I give several I will). So there is no direct cost in terms of credits to me.
What a buff actually costs the performer is (a) time (the buff time) and (b) setup (you have to learn how to stack your flourishes correctly so they abut one after the other and figure out how many of them it takes to make the buff stick the full amount of time). In a sense this is similar for Docs and Entertainers. You're not really paying the doc for his supplies... yeah you pay some of that but more than that, you are paying for his Mastery of his profession, which cost him time, effort, and tons of money, and without which he would not be able to give you hat nice buff. Same is true for a dancer or musician.
Sounds good to me.
My way is to go in, click on the performers, pay zero attention to anyone with an (AFK) over their head. There will be maybe 2 or 3 in a crowded venue, 1 in a small venue, who do not have this. They probably are AFK anyway, but you can test it by interacting -- bow, wave, say hi, give a tip. In fact normally I give a 500 credit tip. If they thank me, showing they saw the tip and are therefore at their keyboard, I follow it up with another, bigger tip (which will depend on BF but is usually on the order of 2.5-5k).
Well my first question to these AFK spammer-banner sorts is, How are they going to know? What do they do, read 1,000 lines of log spam to see if they grouped with someone who didn't pay? Even if that happened the person might've meant to tip and messed up or what have you. I don't see how they would ever kow.
My second comment is, hahahahahah... I don't tip AFKers at all. Period. For any service they might provide. To be honest I use them for healing on my alt sometimes because I can't log both characters in at once (old machine... though I am even as I type this installing SWG on a brand spankin'-new machine and might be able to now). But only when I have made the old college try to find a live performer and can't (which sadly is most of the time). However, my basic policy on buffs is, I do not get buffs from AFKers. I will go without. Bottom line: I'd rather die (literally, in game, and be sent to the cloners) than get buffed by an AFKer.
Personally I would not tip them one red cent. They aren't playing the game. It costs them zero effort or credits or anything else to do what they are doing.
See above. I do not tip them at all under any circumstances. Want money, honey? PLAY THE GAME. Otherwise I'd just say, "Oh hey I was AFK macroing being healed, just like you were AFK macroing healing." ROFL.
Hahahahahahaha.....
Oh this is hysterical. They maintain buff lists now? That is really laughable.
My attitude with AFKers is, they do nothing, so they deserve nothing. Do whatever works for you to get the buff you want. Mooch off them as much as they will allow and pay them whatever you need to, to keep doing what you wish. I have zero sympathy for these people who are effectively NPCs anyway. Whatever you can get away with, I would support you on.
Oh cripes you want them to add vendor hawking to their shout macros? Jeez they are spammy enough as it is.
But hey, if they want to do it, and you want to, go for it. It wouldn't insult me. It'd just make me add the dancer spamming and whoever she was spamming about to my already-extensive ignore list.
I try to buy things that match. But color is important. With a light-blue skin color (Twi'lek) certain things clash (greens, oranges, the wrong blue). So I try to go for a certain sub-set (reds, white, black, dark blue).
The only reason I'd buy an action buff for my dancer is charity for the guy selling the buff (i.e. a doc friend who needs money). My dancer's stats are such that she hardly ever runs out of action. And since there is no real need for her to dance non-stop (since I am not an AFK macroer) and since she needs no further xp (she is already a double Ent/Dance master) it is really no skin off my nose if she sits down to rest. Action buffs are not of any real use to my dancer. My TKA character now, she uses Acarragm all the time and doesn't mind buffs of action stats.
The short answer: use an AFK buffbot. No, seriously. That is what they are good at.
The longer answer: Most dancers will accomodate you but they'd like it better if you chatted with them a little while they buffed you. Treat them like a person (since if they're at-keyboard, they are) and like you value their service and they'll probably buff you for free. The live ones anyway. AFK ones, /shrug, are irrelevent in that regard.
Well let's see...
(1) We are not there to be your buff slaves. Trying to push us around will probably not result in us dancing or playing music for you.
(2) We are mostly socializers and value social interaction so interacting with us will give *us* some pleasure out of the game, just like you being buffed gives you pleasure.
(3) We get treated like we don't even deserve to play the game by lots of combatants, so if we come off as short tempered or uncooperative at this point, that's why. Try to be a little understanding about that.
(4) Someone who is just an entertainer (no other prof) has no way to make money other than your tips (don't even mention ent mission terms -- they are a joke... you can make more in one quick 10-minute mission than an entertainer can make running double ent missions for over an hour). If you see a live one, be generous.
C
1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?
I do not charge for buffs. On the other hand, I don't stand there buffing either. I entertain. If, while I am doing that, someone wants a buff, I give it, freely. I appreciate any tips I get but I do not request up-front payment. Personally I have found that telling people "no charge" usually results in them giving much bigger tips than I would've requested anyway.
My general rule would be, if I had to set a price... A full set of Doc buffs costs 12k. That's 2k per stat. A dancer can buff 1 stat, so 2k sounds fair(ish). It takes dancers longer to buff you but they use no real resources to do it. Docs buff you faster but use expensive resources to do it. So... I dunno. /shrug. When I tip for a mind buff on my alt character (which I almost never do) I tip generously -- usually 10k.
2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)
To give a single buff I require no food, no personal buffs of any sort, and no stims (though if I give several I will). So there is no direct cost in terms of credits to me.
What a buff actually costs the performer is (a) time (the buff time) and (b) setup (you have to learn how to stack your flourishes correctly so they abut one after the other and figure out how many of them it takes to make the buff stick the full amount of time). In a sense this is similar for Docs and Entertainers. You're not really paying the doc for his supplies... yeah you pay some of that but more than that, you are paying for his Mastery of his profession, which cost him time, effort, and tons of money, and without which he would not be able to give you hat nice buff. Same is true for a dancer or musician.
3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?"
Sounds good to me.
My way is to go in, click on the performers, pay zero attention to anyone with an (AFK) over their head. There will be maybe 2 or 3 in a crowded venue, 1 in a small venue, who do not have this. They probably are AFK anyway, but you can test it by interacting -- bow, wave, say hi, give a tip. In fact normally I give a 500 credit tip. If they thank me, showing they saw the tip and are therefore at their keyboard, I follow it up with another, bigger tip (which will depend on BF but is usually on the order of 2.5-5k).
4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.
Well my first question to these AFK spammer-banner sorts is, How are they going to know? What do they do, read 1,000 lines of log spam to see if they grouped with someone who didn't pay? Even if that happened the person might've meant to tip and messed up or what have you. I don't see how they would ever kow.
My second comment is, hahahahahah... I don't tip AFKers at all. Period. For any service they might provide. To be honest I use them for healing on my alt sometimes because I can't log both characters in at once (old machine... though I am even as I type this installing SWG on a brand spankin'-new machine and might be able to now). But only when I have made the old college try to find a live performer and can't (which sadly is most of the time). However, my basic policy on buffs is, I do not get buffs from AFKers. I will go without. Bottom line: I'd rather die (literally, in game, and be sent to the cloners) than get buffed by an AFKer.
Personally I would not tip them one red cent. They aren't playing the game. It costs them zero effort or credits or anything else to do what they are doing.
5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?
See above. I do not tip them at all under any circumstances. Want money, honey? PLAY THE GAME. Otherwise I'd just say, "Oh hey I was AFK macroing being healed, just like you were AFK macroing healing." ROFL.
6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?
Hahahahahahaha.....
Oh this is hysterical. They maintain buff lists now? That is really laughable.
My attitude with AFKers is, they do nothing, so they deserve nothing. Do whatever works for you to get the buff you want. Mooch off them as much as they will allow and pay them whatever you need to, to keep doing what you wish. I have zero sympathy for these people who are effectively NPCs anyway. Whatever you can get away with, I would support you on.
7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.
Oh cripes you want them to add vendor hawking to their shout macros? Jeez they are spammy enough as it is.
But hey, if they want to do it, and you want to, go for it. It wouldn't insult me. It'd just make me add the dancer spamming and whoever she was spamming about to my already-extensive ignore list.
8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?
I try to buy things that match. But color is important. With a light-blue skin color (Twi'lek) certain things clash (greens, oranges, the wrong blue). So I try to go for a certain sub-set (reds, white, black, dark blue).
9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?
The only reason I'd buy an action buff for my dancer is charity for the guy selling the buff (i.e. a doc friend who needs money). My dancer's stats are such that she hardly ever runs out of action. And since there is no real need for her to dance non-stop (since I am not an AFK macroer) and since she needs no further xp (she is already a double Ent/Dance master) it is really no skin off my nose if she sits down to rest. Action buffs are not of any real use to my dancer. My TKA character now, she uses Acarragm all the time and doesn't mind buffs of action stats.
10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?
The short answer: use an AFK buffbot. No, seriously. That is what they are good at.
The longer answer: Most dancers will accomodate you but they'd like it better if you chatted with them a little while they buffed you. Treat them like a person (since if they're at-keyboard, they are) and like you value their service and they'll probably buff you for free. The live ones anyway. AFK ones, /shrug, are irrelevent in that regard.
10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?
Well let's see...
(1) We are not there to be your buff slaves. Trying to push us around will probably not result in us dancing or playing music for you.
(2) We are mostly socializers and value social interaction so interacting with us will give *us* some pleasure out of the game, just like you being buffed gives you pleasure.
(3) We get treated like we don't even deserve to play the game by lots of combatants, so if we come off as short tempered or uncooperative at this point, that's why. Try to be a little understanding about that.
(4) Someone who is just an entertainer (no other prof) has no way to make money other than your tips (don't even mention ent mission terms -- they are a joke... you can make more in one quick 10-minute mission than an entertainer can make running double ent missions for over an hour). If you see a live one, be generous.
C
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