Dancer Archive

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DocRand wrote:

Please understand that I am one of those "combat classes" that are generally clueless about what goes into being an entertainer. I'm looking to know more about the situation so that I can at least say I'm not part of the problem (if I actually get to teach others this information it may spread *shudders*).

All it takes is a bit of time to ask, as you have. We're happy to help.

I don't know how it is in the dance profession forum, but generally those that ask "normal" questions get flamed, one star'ed to death, and beaten over the head for being a "noob" (I REALLY hate net slang). If that ends up happening to me here for this, I'm going to lose a lot of faith for entertainers. (On a side note 5 staring me would be a shocking act of kindness for agreeing with me and/or helping me understand.)

Heheh and what better way to get 5 stars than to ask? *clicks to add 5 stars*

I'll knock out what may be the easy questions first.

1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?

I ask my customers to tip what they think the buff is worth to them. Sometimes this gets me the insult of 1 credit, sometimes it makes me tens of thousands. The average seems to be around 5 or 6 thousand credits each for the Dance and Music buffs.

2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)

Most non-human Entertainers will be using Accarragm or action buffs to do their buffs. For humans and rodians, the cost of a buff is a trip to an ID for a stat migration. (If you're looking for a great way to tip an Entertainer without credits, giving away buffs to the unbuffed or a few bottles of Accarragm would make great tips.

3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )

The absolute best way would be to befriend Entertainers. Of course, that requires one to find the Entertainers to begin with. I'd suggest asking friends, checking for a list of them on your server forums, checking the map for places where people are /registered, and finding the Entertainer chat channel on your server. (I'll make a clicky back to the chat channellist when I find it....) You can also use the community UI window to do a search for nearbyEntertainers.

4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.

Personally, if I HAD to use a buffbot (In about a year and a half of being a Doctor, I've never had to use a buffbot even when practicing in the most difficult of combat situations) I would never tip it. As a bot owner once explained, they make plenty of money anyway, especially since they can have their combat alts out running missions, looting high-end mobs, etc while their bot is animating away in the cantina.

5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?

Not at all. In fact it's my opinion that you shouldn't tip them anything.

6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?

Again, to support the live community, I wouldn't use or tip a bot.

7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.

It's not a bad idea to toss around, but I'm afraid at the moment, the advertisements would get lost in the AFK spam which already causes the chat windows in cantinas to scroll faster than Data (Star Trek reference ) could read. Perhaps after bots and other AFK'ers are removed from the game that idea can be implemented.

8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?

Believe me. Any tailor who makes him or herself available and affordable to live Entertainers has nothing to worry about when it comes to getting Entertainers' business. We, most of us anyway, have an unnatural urge to find new outfits, new costumes, new ways to express ourselves. Some people even buy houses just for their clothes when they can afford it.

9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?

As a Doctor, I keep several low-power, long-lasting buffpacks around for giving to Entertainers. I usually don't charge anything for those. As an Entertainer, I'll pay up to 2 or 3 thousand for a set of action buffs if I have to, but generally, if docs aren't giving them out for free, I can find a Doctor who will buff me in return for a mind buff.

10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?

Ask: "Is anyone buffing, please?" (note: spelling out "please" is a wonderful thing for us, since the average combateer coming into the cantina just starts spamming "BUF PLZ!!!" or "INVITE 2 LILOMAN!" (if someone says "Invite 2 Liloman," I'm going to be logged out faster than their second spamming of those words)

10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?

One thing I get tired of teaching combatants every time they come into the cantina is that I am perfectly capable of performing buffs without being grouped. They seem to have been trained by the buffbots that the only way to receive a buff properly, they have to be grouped.

Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.

Hey, no problem. Thanks for coming here and asking usabout this in a responsible and kind manner.

Good luck!

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DocRand wrote:

1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?

I'm a dancer only, I don't ask for payment and I'm not overly fussed whether I get tipped or not, most of my income comes from mining and space loot. But fr those ents for whom buffing is a large part of their income, then 10k is a fair amount for a tip.

2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)

I use Acc and Kiwik thingy swirl to keep my action up. Per buff the cost is pretty low, but add in to that the people who don't tip for buffing or healing, a crate of each can take a large chunk out of their savings.

3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )

You are using my approved method of finding an ent who will buff. Although with the cantina search spam flooding spatial, a tell might be more effective.

4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.

No it isn't wrong, I stick them on addignore and have been known to disband an ent group to reform without them if they are particularly annoying.

5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?

Again, no, I don't think so. I can't buff myself so if I'm having to use a buffbot, I tip less.

6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them?

There is no cost in maintaining a list, just tip however buffed you. With the new looting scheme in place, tips can now be spread across the group, if free for all isn't selected,so always bank tip. Also the ent will know who has tipped them. Cash tip messages disappear fast in spatial and can get missed.

7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing.

I hate spam in the cantinas and would not want to see anything that further encourages it.

8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?

Matching outfits are vital, don't forget the dress slippers, boots and gloves too. I don't go for team colours, it doesn't go with roleplay, unless it's for an ent group.

9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?

I would buff for free in return for a quickness buff. But as I'm also TKM and often disappear off for a bit of hunting and whacking, I usually use acc so as no to interfer with a full buff when I want one.

10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?

Asking politely, chatting, just being friendly as you would in RL.

10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't?

That if you are the only ATK ent in the cantina, you are probably desperate for a chat!

Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce.

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I just want to add on the cost portion of the question that the biggest factor is time. I am a TKM as well as a master musician. The time it took me to level to MM is easily 6 times what it took for TKM. In addition when I'm out doing TKM activities I'm making credits almost constantly while when I'm in a cantina I might get a buff request a couple of times an hour. So my time is my most expensive resource. If there weren't bufbots and if you couldn't automate this profession completely then my services would be much rarer and considered more valuable, but I would also be much busier and able to make more money off smaller individual fees. That is the hardest part for everyone to balance. A non-entertainer sees all those AFK players and doesn't feel that there is a true cost to what we do, we see the non-ents not tipping when they can make incredible sums of cash quite fast as stingy. The reality is somewhere in the middle. For those reasons I don't set a price and in fact I don't ask for a tip. I let the customer tip me what they feel is fair and I don't even complain in public about the ones that don't tip. There are more that don't tip a single credit than many who do tip realize.

I sometimes get asked to do death watch bunker groups and when I do I and my dancer wife Imaji charge 100k+ each. That sounds huge until you realize that we travel to Endor, we stand around for 30 minutes to an hour while the group gets their act together, then we work for 2 minutes. Often we have stopped some other activity to meet the group as well. So our price is actually low considering what we gave up in our play time to aid someone else in theirs.

Price isn't always about how much in game credits it cost us to do what we do. A doctor who buys his buff packs puts very little time in except the time he is actually buffing. When he is buffing he is generally busy the whole time and can make money from volume that we haven't a chance to make today thanks to unattended play. That very unattended play makes it almost impossible to set a price or get enough to cover the real time each live entertainer has invested just to be there when you arrive.

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DocRand wrote:

I'll knock out what may be the easy questions first.

1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?

I think this depends on three things. Whether the dancer/musician performs for a living, just for fun, OR whether or not by asking they are having to go out of their way. (i.e., you saw them at the shuttle and asked if they'd be willing to take a few minutes - they may be on their way elsewhere, and in that case, probably deserving of a teensy bit extra. ) It also depends on server mechanics. In general, I don't expect anything, as most of the time if I'm dancing it's just because I like it, and like to prove to folks that there ARE living beings in there.

2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?) I -have- to use Accarragm to dance for any length of time. That said, unless I'm buffing, nothing is forcing me to dance constantly except my own desire to do so. On my server, a crate of BE'd accarragm goes for about 100k-150k. Non BE'd can be much much cheaper. All in all, to buff, I typically need nothing more than the accarragm I'm already drinking.

3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" ) If the place is spammy, and you can't get a response right away by asking in spatial, try checking to see if anyone seems to be talking and not just spamming. I try to direct a wave, a greet, or something to individual people. If those people seem to actually be alive, a polite /tell works wonders. Personally, I flat-out refuse to acknowledge those that walk in with just a "invite" demand. Now, if they turn around and send me a tell, even if it IS badly worded, I'll usually do it. Unless the tell is just "buff plz". You might laugh, but I get those. I don't even answer.

4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip. If they're AFK, they can't even tell if you don't tip. I don't give them squat.

5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less? Not at all.

6. If an entertainer is running a "list" for group invites (who are naturally almost always AFK) is ok to just tip them what I feel maintaining the list is worth and at the end of the week (or any time durration but week feels better for me) tip them a larger amount for the number of times I used them? I think this is something we don't see on Kettemoor. (Yet.... ) There's no "effort" to really maintaining a list. It takes the bot 5 seconds to input a new name on it.

7. Not sure if this is a valid idea or not but...... (this could work for afk or atk) All I ever see 90% of the time are advertisments for that dancers venders. If money is hard to come by for an entertainer, would it be difficult to add in a part (that could maybe? be done on a rotation with others) advertisement for others. Have a weekly/monthly/barter payment for it. IE: Come to Jabba's vender at 6739 -6534 Bilge City Naboo. (It's a fake city/waypoint do go there looking for anything). or The lovely community of Hera's Harbor is a level four Player City in search of "incert faction" members. I would think that with a fair (keyword as not much in this game is priced fairly) price coupled with a small number (say 4 max) an entertainer could make decent money on the side, and or reduce her costs of buffing. I'm not sure I understand this question. Are you referring to AFK entertainers spamming "come visit my crappy vendor"? Thankfully I don't get a lot of those on Kett, but I typically avoid Coronet, and Theed has only recently gotten the worst of it. I keep my AFK chat turned off, so the only time I see it is if they're not tagged afk. Either way, I think the spamming at all, for any reason, is annoying. :/

8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see? The BE question's already been answered. A lot. But a LOT of tailors don't bother to make sure their stock matches, or that they have shoes (or lekku wraps ) in matching colors. She would probably do -quite- well if she made sure that her stock was matched. I could go on about this one for a while, but that'd get off topic. Send me a PM on here, or in-game on Kettemoor as Chii, or have her do so.

9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them? I don't buy them, but I'm willing to pay about 5k for one. I understand it's breaking up a set, and they really can't use the rest very well, and it's about half of what they'd get paid for the full set. It's also about what I'd make, optimistically, in one buff myself. They buff, I buff, costs are balanced out.

10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so? Use the word "please". Not "plz". Use full polite sentences. The obnoxious, rude people will be amazed at how much faster you get attention.

10b. (Sorry I thought too much on the last one) Is there anything the Entertainer profession feels combatants should know that 90% of the time we don't? I'm in agreement with most everyone else -- the insistence that groups are necessary for buffing because of the bots is very, very frustrating. Especially when they actually GET that invite, steal their buffs, and then leave and use the ent group as a solo group.

I really do look on it as stealing buffs. The one they get the buff from might not, but I do. If I'm a master dancer, in a group, and someone gets an invite for a buff and they get it from me... without asking... how are they not stealing it from me? I ought to have the right to decide if I wish to buff them or not. And if they go about getting it that way, I probably don't want to. But I don't get a choice, unless I'm quick enough to notice they're watching me, or just plain confrontational enough to /deny them immediately. And even that is pretty pointless.

So yeah... that... and the fact that we are NOT there for their personal amusement. We're not there to be /licked, /snogged, /drooled, or /rude'd at. There are people behind some of those screens (some, of course.. ) and we take our jobs seriously. They'd demand a /duel with any combat prof that just ran up out of nowhere and did a rude emote at them -- because for some reason they think they deserve more respect than someone else. Why should we deserve any less?

Once again thank you for taking the time to assist me in my endevors in this matter and I deeply thank you for your time in advance for your upcomming responce. Thank YOU so much for taking the time to come and ask! It's definitely a nice change.

I second (third? fifteenth? ) the nomination for "board best friend". Maybe I'll stick my nose in on ahazi sometime.

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DocRand wrote:

Your all offically grounded, none of you are from ahazi. (If you knew me you'ed know that everyone gets grounded or fired by me pretty much randomly. I even do it if good things are done.)

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Drygo wrote:

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DocRand wrote:

8. Kinda off topic just by a hair but.... I have a taylor friend, ( feel this idea would be helpful, she thinks I'm crazy) If a taylor made BE dance clothing, would entertainers be more likely to buy just things that matched? Would they also be interested in outfits colored in "Team" colors IE: Rebel, Imperial, Dallas Cowgirls, Seattle Seagals, Laker Girls, USC etc? If you were what types would you like to see?

The thing about BE enhanced clothing is that it's not really valuable to most entertainers. Wound healing happens so incredibly fast, that I probably wouldn't pay more than 100 credits for a piece of clothing just because it has +25 wound healing. I am willing to pay a fair amount for Battle Fatigue healing. But, for example, with my Twi'lek race stats, I already automatically heal BF at 115%. What we really want, which unfortunately BE's can't make, is mind enhancement for buffing. However, as to your other question, entertainers seem to really care about how they look. So, regardless of BE enhancement or not, I think most of us would love matching sets of clothes, and themed or "Team" clothes. I can't speak for everyone, but I try to stay in character, so I could see wanting the faction clothes. And, bands and dance troupes would definitely go for matching outfits of any variety. It really depends on people's personal color and clothing tastes.

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Message Edited by Drygo on 03-11-2005 05:37 PM

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Side note: those BE clothing tissues that affect entertainer healing, that you would pay much for (not that I blame you) are also among the more expensive tissues to make ... they take 15 units of eggs. Collect eggs for a while and you'll see my point, think what a whole crate takes! They have to be expensive, and they're not that much use overall...

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DocRand wrote:

Deila - On one hand I should consider un-grounding you since Ahazi is my home. I DO have to be fair and unbiased towards all that have taken the time to post and earn this grounding..... People might think I have favortisim towards Correspondents if I did such a thing. To make it fair.... If I happen to catch you on Ahazi in person, I will offically un-ground you at that time. (I will also consider a quicker un-grounding if you can.... A: Whisper into the Pilot Correspondents ear to bump fixing my B-Wings S-foils. or B: Whisper into their ear that having more then 3 ships in a data pad (I'd like to see 5 personally) would make alot of pilots happy REGUARDLESS of faction. (How many times can someone fix something in SWG and say Imps, Rebs, and Neturals all liked it.)

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DocRand wrote:

1. How much does the entertainment community feel a full dance/music buff should cost (primary and secondary stats)?

5-10k sounds good to me.. it really all depends on what you have.. when I was master Musician I never had a set ammount, and I wont when Eu'liq is Master Dancer

2. What actually goes into the costs of doing a full dance/music buff set? (Do not include high end skill tapes, I just want the resources you have to use to get through a full set. Stims? Action Buffs? Food? Etc?)

For myself.. it never cost me much.. just time and action.

3. What is a proper way to actively find a "ATK" performer? (I normally try and find them first by asking "Is there a live entertainer that I could get a buff from?" )

How you seek one out now is just fine.. if you don't get a resonce just try polite tells

4. Is it wrong for me to feel annoyed or a little angry when an AFK performer has in their group spiel that those who don't tip will be banned from their service? (BTW I do tip just not as much) That they are basically demanding a tip.

Not at all.. I find anyone, ATK or AFK, who demands tips to be nothing more then a begger. We are entertainers and performersnot jobless beggeron a corner looking for a hand out.

When I am forced to use a buffbot (tho not often I think 3 times in the past 2 months) I NEVER tip.. I refuse to give xp or credtis to players who are AFk.. If it takes me an hour to find somone who is ATK to heal my BF it takes me an hour..

5. To further support "ATK" performers is it wrong to tip AFK performers less?

See above

9. For an Action Buff (come on admit they make your world go round MUCH better) how much do you feel is a fair price for one? What type of deals would you be willing to make for them?

I look at buff standards.. On Corbantis its 15k for a fullset ofbuffs.. so i offer 2.5k for just an action one.

10. Last but not least I can honestly claim I do not know the "in's and out's" of entertainer/combatant relations. If I just want a mind buff (come in watch/listen/tip get out) what is the best way to do so?

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