Dancer Archive
Thread: Buffs-what is wrong with Ents!?
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Yakblat
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:07 am
#1
It's struck me as an injustic lately, the amount of emphasis put on buffs. As a doc there are 6 buffs they can do, that can vary depending on their skill and the components that go into it. Dancers can do 1 buff...and musicians 2.
Ibought buffs one day, and got a 3k buff on stamina alone. Being a rifleman it made me wonder how i could never get anything over a 1.5k buff on my mind...seeing as dancers can only double my mind at the tops....it got me to thinking.
why is this the way things are? not to say i dont love swg and there are many many great things i have neglected to bring up in this post....but as far as ents and doc buffs go, im a bit disappointed.
its lead me to ask the questions of why.
why are there so many things that can go into a doc's buff abilities and virtually nothing into a dancer or musicians!? It's become so, now that docs are overpowered while ents continue to stay all the same, as if there is some sort of universal max an entertainer can achieve and all entertainers will reach that same position one day or another. it trivializes entertainers and gives them a worse name then theyve gotten through afkers and holo-grinders..
why is it that doc buffs only take a matter of minutes and can be so powerful, yet an entertainer buff that takes 8 mins to get its max ability can only at most double stats? all ents get about it now is whining....also despite that it takes more of the players time i've heard that tips are significantly lower than what a doc can get.
i understand that components have to be gathered to make good buffs for a doc...by why cant entertainers also recieve some sort of component to difference from eachother?
does anyone else find a problem with ent/doc buffs!?
picklesSW
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:39 am
#2
I find a lot of problems with all kinds of things for dancers/entertainers, buffs included. What you said up there is all true, and also misses things like we have no idea when a buff is fully applied, nor how strong or how long it will last.
The core problem is, entertainers are at the bottom of the heap in terms of developer attention and effort. We can't even get them to communicate with us, never mind enhance our gameplay or abilities.
Apathy.
The core problem is, entertainers are at the bottom of the heap in terms of developer attention and effort. We can't even get them to communicate with us, never mind enhance our gameplay or abilities.
Apathy.
Olaca
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:09 pm
#3
Agree Agree Agree,
There are problems with the way it works. Being able to buff one stat does not exactly put you in demand. Add to that the times it takes. Add to that the fact that alot of players would rather by food (because they have tons of credits) for a shorter and lower buff.
Even with the 3+ mins buff it still takes time, and even then you have know idea if A) it will work and B) how long it will last.
And one more thing while I'm at it. Self-buff? I find it ironic that I'm the only one in my hunting groups without a mind buff, and guess who gets mind incapped?
So now I'm an alcoholic dancer. Better than a drug addict dancer I guess.
/rantoff
Ela
Cakins7005
Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:13 pm
#4
I think Dancers and Musicians should be able to buff themselves and each of them can buff all 3 mind stats and they stack. Dancer and Musician buffs take too long to buff one or two stats. Make the time one minute for a 3 stat mind buff and I will pay for them more.
sweatyclimber
Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:58 am
#5
put your hands together! a drug addicted alcoholic dancer is the best
Olaca wrote:
So now I'm an alcoholic dancer. Better than a drug addict dancer I guess.
i know this wook can hardly stand when im out doing tka cause im so hopped up hehe
Chessack
Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:22 am
#6
Well....
My guess is, the reason it works this way is because there is no "expense" (as the developers measure it, and most players, in fact) to giving the dancer buff. There are no components to get, and there is no experimentation to do. You can't "critical fail" on the final step of crafting your song, for instance. The only "cost" is time, and time spent flourshing affects the duration of the buff, not its intensity.
Maybe that is a mistake. I'm not sure how doctor buffs work... I never pay attention to exactly how long they last. Is it the case that buffs always last 2 hours, and that the quality of the buff resides in its amount, not its duration (e.g, +100 for 2 hours vs. +1700 or something)? If so then maybe dancers should be the same. Instead of a fixed buff amount (+X%) based on tech skill and a variable duration based on flourishing (the dance equivalent of crafting), perhaps we should always give a 2 hour buff, but the amount of the buff should vary based on (a) your skill level, (b) the level of the dance, and (c) the "quality" or duration of the flourishing. Now (c) will be hard but even if you punt and call it "amount" of flourishing (duration, number of total flourishes done, etc) it would work.
The formula:
Buff amount = 1 point * (boxes of Tech) * ( dance level) per flourish
"Level" is the # of boxes above Novice Entertainer you are. So,
Basic 1 = Level 1
Formal = Level 5
Popular1 = level 6
Lyrical = level 10
Exotic3 = level 11
Let me give some examples.
Dancer #1 is a Novice dancer, with Popular 1 as her highest dance, and 1 tech box. The current way, this would give a +25% buff for 2 hours only if she danced popular1 for probably 10 minutes (NOT for 8 minutes... that is only for exotic and lyrical2 -- the highest dances). The new way: the duration of the buff would be 2 hours. The amount of the buff would be computed as follows:
Buff amount (per flourish) = 1 stat point * 1 tech box * level 6 dance = 6 points/flo
This would take 10 flourishes to get a +60 buff, 100 to get a +600 buff, and so on. For those wondering, 100 flourishes of popular 1 is about 1200 seconds, or 20 minutes. Yeah, this dancer would take a long time to buff you. But she's a beginner.
Dancer #2 is a Master Dancer. Thus she has 5 "tech levels", and let's say she dances Exotic 3. This would be "maximum buffing" and it would do as follows:
Buff amount (per flourish) = 1 pt * 5 tech boxes * level 11 dance = +55 buff per flourish.
This master dancer could apply a +600 buff in 12 flourishes, or about 3 minutes... And if you watched longer, you'd get +1200, +1800... etc.
Either buff would last you 2 hours, and you would not be able to "stack" the buffs on top of each other. But this way it would work more like a doctor. They'd need to cap the bonus at some level -- which, I assume, they do for doctor buffs also (there must be some upper limit based on perfect-quality resources, master doctor skill, and amazing successes in experimentation, that cannot be exceeded).
I think this would work better than the current system, where the amount is static and the thing that varies is the time duration. Much better is having the duration be static and the variable thing be the amount of the buff.
This would enhance the roleplay as well, I would think. I mean think about it... Imagine you give +50 pts per flourish and do 10 flourishes, giving +500. The guy watching wants +1000, so he tips you some money and says, "Please keep dancing for me honey... I love the way you look." So you keep dancing and he gets even a bigger endorphin rush.
C
My guess is, the reason it works this way is because there is no "expense" (as the developers measure it, and most players, in fact) to giving the dancer buff. There are no components to get, and there is no experimentation to do. You can't "critical fail" on the final step of crafting your song, for instance. The only "cost" is time, and time spent flourshing affects the duration of the buff, not its intensity.
Maybe that is a mistake. I'm not sure how doctor buffs work... I never pay attention to exactly how long they last. Is it the case that buffs always last 2 hours, and that the quality of the buff resides in its amount, not its duration (e.g, +100 for 2 hours vs. +1700 or something)? If so then maybe dancers should be the same. Instead of a fixed buff amount (+X%) based on tech skill and a variable duration based on flourishing (the dance equivalent of crafting), perhaps we should always give a 2 hour buff, but the amount of the buff should vary based on (a) your skill level, (b) the level of the dance, and (c) the "quality" or duration of the flourishing. Now (c) will be hard but even if you punt and call it "amount" of flourishing (duration, number of total flourishes done, etc) it would work.
The formula:
Buff amount = 1 point * (boxes of Tech) * ( dance level) per flourish
"Level" is the # of boxes above Novice Entertainer you are. So,
Basic 1 = Level 1
Formal = Level 5
Popular1 = level 6
Lyrical = level 10
Exotic3 = level 11
Let me give some examples.
Dancer #1 is a Novice dancer, with Popular 1 as her highest dance, and 1 tech box. The current way, this would give a +25% buff for 2 hours only if she danced popular1 for probably 10 minutes (NOT for 8 minutes... that is only for exotic and lyrical2 -- the highest dances). The new way: the duration of the buff would be 2 hours. The amount of the buff would be computed as follows:
Buff amount (per flourish) = 1 stat point * 1 tech box * level 6 dance = 6 points/flo
This would take 10 flourishes to get a +60 buff, 100 to get a +600 buff, and so on. For those wondering, 100 flourishes of popular 1 is about 1200 seconds, or 20 minutes. Yeah, this dancer would take a long time to buff you. But she's a beginner.
Dancer #2 is a Master Dancer. Thus she has 5 "tech levels", and let's say she dances Exotic 3. This would be "maximum buffing" and it would do as follows:
Buff amount (per flourish) = 1 pt * 5 tech boxes * level 11 dance = +55 buff per flourish.
This master dancer could apply a +600 buff in 12 flourishes, or about 3 minutes... And if you watched longer, you'd get +1200, +1800... etc.
Either buff would last you 2 hours, and you would not be able to "stack" the buffs on top of each other. But this way it would work more like a doctor. They'd need to cap the bonus at some level -- which, I assume, they do for doctor buffs also (there must be some upper limit based on perfect-quality resources, master doctor skill, and amazing successes in experimentation, that cannot be exceeded).
I think this would work better than the current system, where the amount is static and the thing that varies is the time duration. Much better is having the duration be static and the variable thing be the amount of the buff.
This would enhance the roleplay as well, I would think. I mean think about it... Imagine you give +50 pts per flourish and do 10 flourishes, giving +500. The guy watching wants +1000, so he tips you some money and says, "Please keep dancing for me honey... I love the way you look." So you keep dancing and he gets even a bigger endorphin rush.
C
Tayman
Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:12 am
#7
I just wish there were more entertainers buffing and not holo-grinding.
I could get my mind(and its secondaries)to astronomically levels with dancer buffs, musician buffs, vasarian brandy, vasarian canape, migrated human stats to all mind(and its secondaries), and muon gold.
Oh and powerboost also if I still had TKA.
I could get my mind(and its secondaries)to astronomically levels with dancer buffs, musician buffs, vasarian brandy, vasarian canape, migrated human stats to all mind(and its secondaries), and muon gold.
Oh and powerboost also if I still had TKA.
Breestan
Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:35 pm
#8
More entertainers buffing... the entertainers that buff are the entertainers. The ones hologrinding are not. There really isn't any 'more' entertainers than there used to be. There is the same amount.
I remember Eisly on Ahazi in the first few weeks of launch.... it was busy. But the entertainer group never seemed full, ever. In fact, I did not see a full group in my almost constant travel until around August in Coronet. That was a lot of fun, because I think everyone was at the keyboard there. (I think I made master there as well in that group, the best exp I had ever seen).
But those groups were rare.
The groups of 2 or three still exist, but they are cluttered with 17 card board cutouts. So there is not a decrease of Entertainers really.... they are just being swamped by cardboard.
darksithmage
Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:17 pm
#9
<=== is a holo grinder, so what? I love when people see themselves as high and mighty just cause they don't wish to grind out professions. I wouldn't do it either if I didn't have to, don't blame me, blame sony for making the system. I wouldn't have touched any entertainer profession with a 10 foot pole if I could avoid it in my search for FSCS, I find them boring.... and no I don't want to stare at a screen while all that stuff happens, get a buff go afk and get it over with, small price to pay to get to play the class i actually want. Anyway, reason why entertainer buffs don't appeal to people is because of the time consumption, everyone knows that.
Oh and don't blame the holo grinders, I've tried to get buffs from long time entertainers, and they either look at you like you're stupid, or they simply don't respond when you ask them for an enhancement. I recall offering 12k once for a dancer mind buff, every master dancer in the cantina just ignored me and continued talking. After a while people can take a hint, put up with that or geta case of brandy and some muon and go on your merry way. Docs aren't innocent of this either, I've seen some complain about credits and such, and when you ask them for an enhancement they act like they haven't the time of day for you.
atone48732
Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:13 am
#10
back before i hung up my dancin shoes I used to play the "drunken dancer" tons of fun
but seriously yes dancers get screwed left and right whether its not getting tips or that our buffs only double mind or whatever.
part of the reason I left this profession. I really enjoyed being an entertainer too *sigh*
something should be done about dancers buffs though thta and musician buffs
Morwen
Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:37 pm
#11
Chessack wrote:
Well....
My guess is, the reason it works this way is because there is no "expense" (as the developers measure it, and most players, in fact) to giving the dancer buff. There are no components to get, and there is no experimentation to do. You can't "critical fail" on the final step of crafting your song, for instance. The only "cost" is time, and time spent flourshing affects the duration of the buff, not its intensity.
Ultimately, the only cost for anything in games such as SWG is... time. Whether that time is spentin actually applying the buff (entertainer) or in gathering the components and/or buying them and manufacturing the buff (doctor) is irrelevant.
Kuildeous
Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:56 pm
#12
darksithmage wrote:
I recall offering 12k once for a dancer mind buff, every master dancer in the cantina just ignored me and continued talking.
Well, judging from the language you used in your post, they may have ignored you for good reason.
I know that I would certainly ignore someone if he came in and said, "Which one of you high-and-mighty know-it-alls want 12k for a buff?" I'd tell you where to stick that 12k.
I suppose that you could have been nice about it, but your post says differently.
And even if you were nice about it, Dancers are people too (well, if they're not AFK). They can do their own thing. You are not entitled to a Mind buff. If an Armorsmith wants to deny me Composite Armor, even though I offer to pay him 800k, then he has that right.
Also, some Dancers are role-players. If the characters are racist, sexist, etc., then there's another reason you may have been ignored. My Imperial Medic character never heals wookies. Why? Because he felt them unworthy of life and should be eliminated. He only barely tolerated twi'leks because they were almost human.
There could have been valid reasons you were ignored.
Or the Dancers in question could have been jerks.
Both are possible.
Olaca
Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:04 pm
#13
Greetings,
You beat me to it Kuildeous. I have denied buffs and service to people that are rude, sexist, or in the middle of a PvP battle (your killing my firends and you want me to heal and buff you?) Other than that though I have actually taken very expensive trips to far flung planets to help out strangers, sometimes with no compensation, but I enjoy helping people (even if you are a rebel)
Other than that though I have actually taken very expensive trips to far flung planets to help out strangers, sometimes with no compensation, but I enjoy helping people (even if you are a rebel)
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