Dancer Archive
Thread: I'm so unspeakably frustrated. Beyond all comprehension.
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FuschiaD
Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:12 pm
#1
I've just about had it. I've had it with every single other player looking down on me because I choose to dance instead of fight. I've had it with every single other player treating me as subhuman, and substandard, because I choose to dance instead of fight. I've had it with no respect, and lame cliches and platitudes such as "respect is shown when it is given." Well, that goes two ways, kiddos. When someone comes to me and demands a buff, I'm sure as hell not going to give it to him. And you know what? That is my right, because I'm not a mindless zombie. I'm not going to waste 14.99 a month to NOT play my game. And, for some unknown, godforsaken reason, I ENJOY being an entertainer. Or at least I did. I'm not sure I do now. I lost a friend over this. He won't see things my way. He refuses to believe that I have a right to play this game, to demand respect, and to make my own choices. WHY? I'm so, so tired of all this.
I realize that I am posting this in the dancer forums. That's because I'm literally afraid to post it anywhere else. We have become a necessary evil in this game. Why didn't I see this before? People don't respect us. They might need us, but they're sure not happy about it. But how happy would they be if their livelihood were robbed in the same manner? For example:
What if doctor buffbots became absolutely rampant? What if you couldn't go anywhere - starports, cantinas, med centers - without being surrounded by them? What if they could buff nonstop, and payment was optional at best? The only thing that you had to do was group with them. What would that do to doctors who actually attended their characters, requiring payments, politeness, INTERACTION? Picture this... a doctor, surrounded by doctor buffbots, trying desperately to do business, and someone runs up to them and demands an invite to that doctor's group. They don't ever bother to talk TO the doctor. They talk at him, around him, but never bother to find out if the doctor is actually playing his character. When the doctor says "I'm here... it'll be 12k, and there's no need to group with me" what do you think will happen? The other player would get VERY hostile, the doctor would get mad, and the fur would fly.
....What do you know? I've justdescribed the LAST TWELVE MONTHS OF LIFE AS AN ENTERTAINER. NONSTOP, COMPLETE ABUSE. We are not afforded the same courtesies as ANY other player. Not by other players, and certainly not by the company that created us. We are abandoned. We are lost. We are hopeless.
Why are any of us still here?
Schardour
Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:33 pm
#2
As soon as I've mastered DE, I'm dropping Master Dancer and picking up some combat skills again. I'm starting to miss Rifleman. I could command respect with a T21 
Ahazi.Eira will remain a Master Dancer. But she'll idle. Bria.Eira will remain a Master Entertainer. But he'll be flexing while running spice, not in the cantinas. Shadowfire.Obabock might work on his Musician skills when he gets bored with the Rebel pilot missions and the Bounty Hunter profession, but I don't see that happening all that often.
Yep....entertaining is somewhat dead to me now. I actually entertained a player on Chilastra today. All I had to do was play StarWars1 on a Mando. Exotic4? It impresses the ladies, but I'm getting annoyed with some of them. Give me a good gun, a pair of hawtpants, and a good chat channel and I can keep both myself and a good number of friends entertained for hours. I might play Ceremonial at a wedding, or jam with the guys in a player-owned cantina on the weekends, but the rest of my time on Chilastrais going to be occupied with crafting, fighting, and flight.
I know exactly how you feel. I'm sure there are many more that know those feelings as well.
Why am I still here?
I'm not sure. I no longer see a reason to stay.
Message Edited by Schardour on 12-05-2004 10:34 PM
LyteFoot
Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:39 pm
#3
I don't know what to say. My experience the past 3 months is so different. The Theed cantina is getting more ATK than AFK entertainers now and we get several other players who stop in and chat, visit, and get healed or get buffs. The past three evenings we have taken a troupe to Mos Eisley and tonight, Sunday, Bestine starports. All three nights we have had players express surprise, ask why were there, and express gratitude when we say its just to entertain. I've had 5 old vets say that its been a long time since they've seen anything like this. I've had several of them sit and listen, letting two or more shuttles pass as they enjoyed the dancers and musicians.
Corbantis entertainment has been pretty invisible for a while. A few of us are trying to change that and there is appreciation. Yes I had one night that one dweeb did his worst to us in Theed but that was the only time. Even then we had others come to our aid. The heck with buff bots, the heck with AFKtainers. There are still people who enjoy a show. Several of them talked about how they avoid the cantinas because it is so dismall so stay out of the cantinas. Get out, get seen, and get a few people showing you they still like it. The four or five who stick around missing shuttles, the one or two who tell you how long its been and how much they miss it; these will remind you why you enjoy this profession.
If you can't find that then try Corbantis we need a lively entertainer group. If that doesn't help then by all means try something different but I do believe there are people who still want us, we just have to get out where they can find us.
Corbantis entertainment has been pretty invisible for a while. A few of us are trying to change that and there is appreciation. Yes I had one night that one dweeb did his worst to us in Theed but that was the only time. Even then we had others come to our aid. The heck with buff bots, the heck with AFKtainers. There are still people who enjoy a show. Several of them talked about how they avoid the cantinas because it is so dismall so stay out of the cantinas. Get out, get seen, and get a few people showing you they still like it. The four or five who stick around missing shuttles, the one or two who tell you how long its been and how much they miss it; these will remind you why you enjoy this profession.
If you can't find that then try Corbantis we need a lively entertainer group. If that doesn't help then by all means try something different but I do believe there are people who still want us, we just have to get out where they can find us.
MasterNerfSlayer
Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:44 pm
#4
I hate to see people feeling disrepected and being upset in general, and while I know it's not your fault, I'm going to suggest that maybe you take a break from the game, relax and just enjoy life for a little while. It sounds like it's all getting to you, and you don't deserve that.
Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. I've had people threated to page CSR's because I wouldn't buff them, like I had no right to refuse... I mean, what's up with that? I buff who I want, when I want.
Oh, and before they made it so buffs buff the doc if nothing is targetted, afk doc buff bots were rampant. Thankfully there was a simple fix for that.
If you're like me and just can't stop playing, then take the power back, and just do what you like when you like and ignore people who don't conform. Works for me.
Good luck 
FuschiaD
Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:52 pm
#5
The problem with leaving the game is that this problem is ONLY when I'm playing as an entertainer. As a tailor, I'm sought after and treated with respect. As a pistoleer, I'm treated as an equal. Even as an Image Designer, I'm treated with more respect. But as a dancer... I'm dirt. God FORBID I deign to speak to someone. I should just quietly /join with anyone who asks me to, buff them, and send them on their way. How dare I talk back to them? I'm just a lowly entertainer.
So. I'm probably going to give up dancer. I'm tired of this.
noSup4u
Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:22 pm
#6
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Oh, and before they made it so buffs buff the doc if nothing is targetted, afk doc buff bots were rampant. Thankfully there was a simple fix for that.
the simple fix being to macro targeting an un buffable always nearby object.
these botts are just now infiltrating tarq, i was pleased we havent seen it til now.
ava, words cant describe how sympathetic i am to your frustrations.my inablity to do anything to rectify things makes it worse. focus on whats fun, ignore the rest, even if you have to shelf her for awhile.
Tralmek
Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:26 pm
#7
MasterNerfSlayer wrote:
Oh, and before they made it so buffs buff the doc if nothing is targetted, afk doc buff bots were rampant. Thankfully there was a simple fix for that.
I was laughing so unbelieveably hard at this... the fix for docs was to tryforcing them to buff themselves. Entertainers have been begging for a self-buff function for months. 
Don't get me wrong, of course--I despisebots of any type: doc, tumbling, entertaining, spamming, etcetera, but...yeah. This was a funny point to remember.
Message Edited by Tralmek on 12-05-2004 10:26 PM
Einhinder
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:22 am
#8
FuschiaD wrote:
I've just about had it. I've had it with every single other player looking down on me because I choose to dance instead of fight. I've had it with every single other player treating me as subhuman, and substandard, because I choose to dance instead of fight. I've had it with no respect, and lame cliches and platitudes such as "respect is shown when it is given." Well, that goes two ways, kiddos. When someone comes to me and demands a buff, I'm sure as hell not going to give it to him. And you know what? That is my right, because I'm not a mindless zombie. I'm not going to waste 14.99 a month to NOT play my game. And, for some unknown, godforsaken reason, I ENJOY being an entertainer. Or at least I did. I'm not sure I do now. I lost a friend over this. He won't see things my way. He refuses to believe that I have a right to play this game, to demand respect, and to make my own choices. WHY? I'm so, so tired of all this.
I realize that I am posting this in the dancer forums. That's because I'm literally afraid to post it anywhere else. We have become a necessary evil in this game. Why didn't I see this before? People don't respect us. They might need us, but they're sure not happy about it. But how happy would they be if their livelihood were robbed in the same manner? For example:
What if doctor buffbots became absolutely rampant? What if you couldn't go anywhere - starports, cantinas, med centers - without being surrounded by them? What if they could buff nonstop, and payment was optional at best? The only thing that you had to do was group with them. What would that do to doctors who actually attended their characters, requiring payments, politeness, INTERACTION? Picture this... a doctor, surrounded by doctor buffbots, trying desperately to do business, and someone runs up to them and demands an invite to that doctor's group. They don't ever bother to talk TO the doctor. They talk at him, around him, but never bother to find out if the doctor is actually playing his character. When the doctor says "I'm here... it'll be 12k, and there's no need to group with me" what do you think will happen? The other player would get VERY hostile, the doctor would get mad, and the fur would fly.
....What do you know? I've justdescribed the LAST TWELVE MONTHS OF LIFE AS AN ENTERTAINER. NONSTOP, COMPLETE ABUSE. We are not afforded the same courtesies as ANY other player. Not by other players, and certainly not by the company that created us. We are abandoned. We are lost. We are hopeless.
Why are any of us still here?
welcome to my world now wait till your told by someome who part time plays n alt ent as a hobby for fun tell you you sohuldnt want to or expect to be able to play as a live entertainer and actually consider it your profession and a way to make money because dontyou know entertainer is just a hobby not a real profession and if we wanna make money we should take up another skill.
id just like ot add to no one in particular since the buffbot epidemic began there have been MANY people on this forum who have attacked any entertainer wih any ideas on how to get dev attention or whatnot there told if you just entertain better and ignore the botts itll get better well guess what we are out there entertaining and we have been ignoring the botts and its only getting worse look at your history people ignoring a problem doesnt make it go away it makes it worse ie hitler
Va-Mei
Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:56 am
#9
At least for the moment, I see things as getting better.
On Radiant, my master dancer has buffed more players in the last week, than in the month before that. He's actually getting tips (and no they're not "Why don't you get a real job?" ). When my dance partner and I /bflo together, we get compliments on our performance andlargetips foractuallyentertaining. The bot is still there, and still gets a big peice of the pie, but I like to think were making a dent.
I'm hoping to put a bigger dent in the bots running from Dant, Mining. I'm working toward my master Musician, and when I get there my partner and I are going to try to run solo groups from there. I know they've nerfed the solo groups, but players still want them. We'll provide that solo group, buff you, heal you, and with a bit of luck, entertain you. No need to get into the buff group, then find a solo group, then leave it to re-buff...
On Naritus, I managed to shamethe hunting party I was in for not at least checking Theed for a live player before heading off to see the buff bot. Lo and behold, there was a Master Dancer and a Master Musician ready and willing. A rarity lately... They buffed us, entertained us, and sent us on our way with a smile; and we were happy to have lightend our pockets a bit. I have no doubt that not one of them will bat an eye over seeing a bot next time, but I do think they'll at least check for a live player first.
Ihareo
Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:45 am
#10
Don' take it personally. It's part of human nature to stomp on those weaker than ourselves.
Let me tell you a story that may cheer you up.
I was leading a band in theed a few months back. I was dancing my lil heart out 'cause I wanted my Master dancer badge (I've left and picked Dancer up so many time it's stupid) when some Master Bounty Hunter came in.
Firstly, there was about 5 of us at the keyboard and the rest were AFKing (which I don't mind at all. We all get xp if we're in the band). I was having a conversation with one of the dancers who lived in Denmark and having a good time, the aforementioned Bounty Hunter joining in the conversation and we al had some fun.
My fellow dancer at one point announced that she had to go AFK for a few minuites and would be back shortly.
No sooner had she gone AFK, but the Bounty Hunter startssaying EXTREMELY lewd things about her, like how she'll cyber with anyone for 10k, and how kinky she is and making even more lewd /emotes at her. I turned to him and informed him that that would not be tolerated in this cantina and asked him to leave.
He responnded to me by exclaiming that I better learn my place and no whore will talk to him like that, brandishing his pistol at me and /slap ing and /spit ing on me.
So I invited him to a duel.
The second he accepted he was hit by 12,000 points of flame thrower goodness, after which I explained to him that I was also a Master commando as I deathblowed him and reported him for sexual harassment.
The moral of the story is this: TAKE your respect and if they still harass you, kill them and report them.
Va-Mei
Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:50 am
#11
"Every time I've gone to theed, I hear "Can you buff?". When I say "Barely, I'm not able to give the kind of buffs you're looking for" I'm lucky if I even get a thank you, or a goodbye."
Every time a player trys to get a live buff and is sent away, that is one more victory for the bots.
Insted of making your buffs sound bad with "Barely...," tell them what you can do. If you can spend 6 minutes to do a 50% primary buff lasting 1h30m, tell them that. If your stocking/using accarogram so you can do a buff in 3-1/2 min, tell them that. If they ask how much, tell them the buff will cost whatever they think it's worth once it's done, but if they want the fast buff the food will cost [your cost here]. That's way more in your pocket than you'd get if the bot does the job.
In my experience, the most important thing is to have a macro to deal with your timing, that way, all your buffs are the best you can do. Nothing sounds less professional than, "ummm I think that's propably been long enough. Try /stopwatch and see..." ATK does not need to mean that you do not use macros, just that you are there to manage them and make life interesting.
If you need help getting a buff macro together, ask for help from a Master who knows that you actually play ATK. If they can't help you, ask if they know someone who can. Then test your macro, so you know how good your buffs are. Fiddle with things to see how fast you can get your max buff without running out of juice, or to make the flourishes/techs more interesting.
Once you do get a customer, try to open a little bit of conversation. If they don't want to talk, don't press them. Deliver your service and let them be on their way. If they'll talk, ask how things are going, whatever small talk feels right. If they open up a bit, get a feel what they're up to, or better yet, what services they can use or offer. Nothing keeps a pair of paying customers comming back like aranging a big business connection for them; and were in the unique position to know almost everyone.
Reachwind
Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:42 am
#12
I may be wrong about this Va-Mei, but I think Fuschia is more concerned about the way all entertainers are being treated by the people coming into the cantina wanting buffs.
I know that when I played as Sal'tee or one of my other entertainer characters I just automatically did my best to take care of the combat types as they came through the door. When they threw out an invite or asked if they could join the group I just did that for them no questions asked. Other players though, like Fuschia, take it personally when they are treated like an it instead of another player.
Whether or not you can let it go or work around it, it's a major problem. This is happening on every server with more and more regularity. New players are basically being taught to see the role of entertainer as NPC. Vet players are numbing to live entertainers and choosing to use bots for entertainment as they can avoid all player to player interaction.
What I would like to know is, where are our correspondents? What is happening between them and the developers... What issues are being discussed and considered?
I know that when I played as Sal'tee or one of my other entertainer characters I just automatically did my best to take care of the combat types as they came through the door. When they threw out an invite or asked if they could join the group I just did that for them no questions asked. Other players though, like Fuschia, take it personally when they are treated like an it instead of another player.
Whether or not you can let it go or work around it, it's a major problem. This is happening on every server with more and more regularity. New players are basically being taught to see the role of entertainer as NPC. Vet players are numbing to live entertainers and choosing to use bots for entertainment as they can avoid all player to player interaction.
What I would like to know is, where are our correspondents? What is happening between them and the developers... What issues are being discussed and considered?
Va-Mei
Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:38 pm
#13
I didn't mean to imply that things are good on any server, just that in my little part, I see things getting a bit better. The attutudes that may players are displaying toward entertainers are at best uncalled for, and more often inexcusable. I've seen players who would call themselves men, treat some of the female entertainers like they were little more than filth from the street. Demands for buffs, foul & abusive language, requests and even demands for cybering... It's disgracefull that they are allowed to get away with these things.
I always offer whatever suggestions or support I cangive when this happens, and once I was asked to handle the situation. After I'd had my say with him, the little maggot offered an open appology in spatial and logged on the spot. We have yet to see or hear from him again.
I do agree though, that a bit of transparency would go a long way here. The Devs have said on one hand that they support ATK play, but their actions and inactions say other wise. The actions taken by the CSRs show that SOE is not telling them that ATK play should be supportedin favor of AFK bots.
If SOE is actually interested in supporting ATK play, then they should be directing their CSRs accordingly, and should be pressing for a more open line of communication between us and the Devs regarding our roll in the future of this game. If we have a future, I'll keep on the push for my tripple mastery, I'll do what I can to fight the bots, and to change the hearts of the players that use them. If not, then I can give up on entertainer, and goRifle/Ranger or something....
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