Dancer Archive
Thread: Some commonly requested features and their likely future.
Tandava brought up a few things in another thread that have all been brought up before but it was a nice list so I decided to try and get a better answer on them. Here is the list he mentioned and following that is a generalidea as to where each of these stand. Since these are very common requests I thought You'd all like to take note and read up on it.
Tandava wrote:
1) Adding a Bandflourish command of /bandflourish changedance xxxx which like any bandflourish for dancers can be turned off or on. This allows a coordinated group of dancers to simultaneously change from one dance to another if already synched. Musicians have their equivalent, doesn't seem like a far stretch to ask.
2) Add a /dancemirror or /coupledance option that auto puts people into a /bandflourish situation but using emotes that allow them to dance together. Possibly use if for new dances to expand our repetoire. Give dancers a Waltz to actually waltz to, Give us an interactive ballet, give us an interactive popular or something.
3) Allow the dancer to move, change, pivot, reposition for three to five steps and remain dancing or give us a /pause dance command that allows us to move and then resume so we can watch our spacing, dance around people, dance around objects, choreograph better.
4) Allowus to dance with a prop.Give us the ability to make something a prop then perhaps give us a /danceprop1 from inventory and let us show our prop. Be it a veil, a chair, a cane, a fan, a cape, a mirror, a boa, a birdcage, a sishka whatever.
5) Give thought to matching the music that musicians play with the dances we can dance allowing for choices and variations between.
Okay, I have an update here.
Spoke with our dev about this some. In general he said its all good stuff, some isn't easy to do tho. Most of which I've mentioned before but he was more responsive about it this time. I'll go over it point by point and give you some idea where we stand.
*(note) I want to make something clear first and foremost. None of what I'm saying here is in any way a direct quote from our dev, just my interpretation and in no way should any of you consider these to be promises of things to come.
1) This one is very hopeful and isn't all that hard to do at first glance. Although keep in mind the problems that came up when /changeband command was added. Hopefully unless something goes wrong we'll get this next time they have a chance to add new features for entertainers.
2)This one is very difficult. The currently placement issues that lag currently causes would make doing this incredibly hard. (same problems I believe are the root of our issues with Lyrical and Formal) There would also need to be a special set of flourishes that go together and are triggered correctly with a command. This isn't impossible but it isvery tricky and would require a lot of work and time. So basically don't plan on seeing this anytime soon to say the least, if ever.
3) This is actually the way our dev wanted it to be from the start but there are some core server issues that are currently preventing this. Basically the server assumes a lot of things about movement and dancing that make this impossible right now. This is not to say this won't ever change, but its considered low priority and would be a pretty major change to the server. So basically due to the fundamental issues standing in our way we aren't likely to see this for a long time to come if at all.
4) Really great idea (they like)that is definately going to be looked into further. New art will most likely need to be made that is specifically designed to be held. These objects of course would be equipable like any weapon which has a whole bunch of problems that would need to be resolved. (by problems I'm thinking clipping and changes to the dances to accommodate the use of objects of all shapes and sizes) Not a small problem by any means. So a cool idea but not something they'll have time to work on anytime soon unfortunately.
5) Am pretty sure a good amount of thought was put in to the new music and dances being mo-capped right now as far as how they would be peformed together. (most of our dances now have a song they match up with pretty well now, but the new music and dances will most likely have better pairings that are very suited for each other) Not promising anything, just the way it sounds to me and the impression I have gotten. If I'm wrong you can flame away at me if you want but leave the devs out of it, they aren't telling you this, I am.
*(note) Once again. None of whatI just saidhere is in any way a direct quote from our dev, just my interpretation and in no way should any of you consider these to be promises of things to come.
Sorry if I had to be sort of vague on a few things, I hope this information helps some at least. There isn't anything more I can say without getting myself in trouble here.
Something that hasn't been discussed here is themission nerf that happened a while back. Surely the features aboveare not the most commonly requested features. For me, all of these areVERY minor when compared to the fact that we are better-off doing almost anything ratherthan taking a dance mission.
I'm not trying to change this thread into one about dance missions, but the absence of a post regarding the issue is making me worry about how important the entertainer missionissue is in the developers' minds. I would hate to see some of these minor issues be addressed while the dance mission thing is left to fester.
Ravenmist, thanks a lot for all the updates you've been giving us!
Just wanted to ask you to please add a group version of start/stopdance commands in case that slipped your mind ( I *think* I mentioned it in the original thread Tandava started). I can compensate for the buggy lyrical/formal steps by writing a macro but even were I to change each instance of /flo to /bandflo, it doesn't help get the dancers coordinated in the first place. 
And I'm still hoping for a more masculine master dance like breakdance. If they do the mo-ca atm why not trying to add a dance?
That said I do hope breakdancing isn't master level... I'd rather see something else there.. Not sure what.
3) This is actually the way our dev wanted it to be from the start but there are some core server issues that are currently preventing this. Basically the server assumes a lot of things about movement and dancing that make this impossible right now. This is not to say this won't ever change, but its considered low priority and would be a pretty major change to the server. So basically due to the fundamental issues standing in our way we aren't likely to see this for a long time to come if at all.
I don't understand. A musician can queue up flourishes and they only execute when the current flourish or "idle flourish" is finished. A dancer cannot queue up flourishes and the "idle flourish" is interrupted when a flourish is performed. Making a dancer's flourishes act more like a musician's would solve the problem of "dancer's drift" because you'd always end up back on center before you executed the new flourish. The drift is caused when you flourish in the middle of an "idle flourish".
Granted I'm not a SWG developer, but this doesn't seem very difficult to do. The animations are client-side. The client knows how long they last. The client need only queue commands received from the server and execute them at the right time--very much like how a musician's flourishes are already done.
2)This one is very difficult. The currently placement issues that lag currently causes would make doing this incredibly hard. (same problems I believe are the root of our issues with Lyrical and Formal) There would also need to be a special set of flourishes that go together and are triggered correctly with a command. This isn't impossible but it isvery tricky and would require a lot of work and time. So basically don't plan on seeing this anytime soon to say the least, if ever.
The only difficulty I could think of here is trying to match up player models of varying sizes. But I don't see why it would be a server lag issue or have anything to do with the server at all. Again, the animations are client-side. Let the client keep track of who is dancing as a couple. When the client receives a "flourish" command from the server, the client would only have to figure out if it came from one of the members of the couple. If so, it synchronously effects both player models.
Ravenmist, would you be able to pass on those thoughts? I just don't want the dev to give up because he might be trying to make it harder than it needs to be.
Few things I don't think you understand Pendarin. Number 3 has nothing to do with flourishes, it has to do with moving while dancing without stopping the dance or pausing the dance while you move. This simply isn't possible with the current server setup. I don't expect you to understand the details of this but the basics of it is that the server has set rules built in when it comes to movement that govern all forms of movement and right now any movement will break dancing. This isn't something they can just change at the drop of a hat, it would require them to redo the entire movement system and change the way the server responds to movement. It may sound simple to just make it pause or que up the dance but it really isn't that simple.
Also, theres a lot more to linking a pair dancing then just matching up player models. New flourishes would have to be made. The constant problem with the server and client not matching up perfectly would be an issue. The system for linking the players would need to be made as well as how to stop and end it. Theres a few others things I'm not sure I'm allowed to talk about. But the end result is this is something that would take a very serious amount of time to do. Its not impossible to do it, it would just require a lot of resources and a lot of time, something we may see in the future.
ErioTenjo wrote:
And I'm still hoping for a more masculine master dance like breakdance. If they do the mo-ca atm why not trying to add a dance?
They did make some new dances as far as I know.
Not sure how many of them we'll see and how many will be saved for expansion tho.
Few things I don't think you understand Pendarin. Number 3 has nothing to do with flourishes, it has to do with moving while dancing without stopping the dance or pausing the dance while you move. This simply isn't possible with the current server setup. I don't expect you to understand the details of this but the basics of it is that the server has set rules built in when it comes to movement that govern all forms of movement and right now any movement will break dancing. This isn't something they can just change at the drop of a hat, it would require them to redo the entire movement system and change the way the server responds to movement. It may sound simple to just make it pause or que up the dance but it really isn't that simple.
Ahhh, I made a move from point A to point F. Sorry about that. I was talking about wanting movement while dancing in order to correct for dancer drift (i.e. "so we can watch our spacing"). So my thing above is more about that than moving while dancing.
Also, theres a lot more to linking a pair dancing then just matching up player models. New flourishes would have to be made.
Absolutely, but that's true of any new dance.
The constant problem with the server and client not matching up perfectly would be an issue.
That's why I'm suggesting not to bother making the server handle it. Let the client do it itself, then you don't have to worry so much about lag.
But you do have a point. Letting just the client handle it might impose some security risk formovement validation. Also I could fathom there being problems with keeping everyone's clients showing the couple going in the same direction (dancer's drift).
So, itsounded likea good idea at the time...
Its not impossible to do it, it would just require a lot of resources and a lot of time, something we may see in the future.
For a class that 2-3% of the people pick as their starting profession, the definition of future probably ranges from "not in your lifetime" to "never". But I get the feeling from you and NewJedi that the developers responsible for entertainer have a soft spot for it. So here's hoping.
Thank you so much Ravenmist!!!
I agree with Velvet the stop/start bandflourish would be great and probably easy to do with the /changedance one.
I can see how the couple dancing would be difficult. I think matching the movements wouldn't be hard because the coding for it is already in with /bandflourish of the dancers. You'd just have to add a command for assigning the dancer that flourishes as the Lead and give an alernate set flourishes to the non-lead to draw from the flourish menu. Actually that's way too simplisticly put. Some dances would require different flourishes on both parties. If we get this in 6 months time I will be happy.
I am really glad you discussed this with them and received feedback.
I realize these are all little things that are just there to make us a bit better at entertaining. And for that I am very very grateful.
So why do the flourishes they added to the lower level dances not look mocapped at all? Its easy to tell which are the original and which were added later, because the character looks like someclumsy marionette when doing the added ones, not like a real dancer at all.
I hadn't really danced seriously since the end of beta(I just started dancing seriously again), and I admit that having the same flourishes for the dances was crappy...but are they ever intending on bringing the new flourishes up on par with the original ones?
-Sirise Iridisci, Ahazi
Numerous dancers, numerous other servers.