Dancer Archive
Thread: Calling Dancers to an important task
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Tandava
Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:35 am
#1
Alright we have railed many times that this forum lacks substance in posts. People hereseem toprefer talkingabout hotpants, spanking, macroing and afk's far more than anything the profession can market itself on. Not to get down on spanking or hotpants.
Always we might get one or two bright idea posts every few weeks and someone lamenting why don't we share information on events and costumes and ideas only to ALWAYS have it disappear within a day or two with almost no responses and be buried in dross.
The people often hailed as the most creative on this forum rarely ever contribute to those self same threads that involve performance, teaching, ideas, and sharing. So one more time and plead, on my knees, groveling in the dust, begging other dancers that presumably are the MOST active and activist dancers on their respective servers to even be here at all to get off their duffs and comment for or against another creative idea presented here.
Every dancer that reads this forum should read Eacas idea and say yea or no, come up with problems or ideas for it and actually give their substantive opinion to that post and every post presented like it to add some teeth to this forum.
We need to find ways and post ideas to wed ourselves to the combat types, We need to find ways to post on their forums, to get their support and to become part of the crafters and fighters life, leisure and economy. That will give us a lot more help for everything from our missions to new dances and music to eliminating buff bots and gaining more support for us.
Message Edited by Tandava on 09-30-2004 11:40 AM
picklesSW
Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:56 am
#2
I commented on the thread.
However, and this is the reason I don't participate as much as I should on such threads, I have zero faith that the devs will ever implement something like that. Or any of the ideas ever repesented here. I really hate to say that, but it's the honest truth.
I've seen countless threads with fantastic ideas fly by for over a year now. Some extremely creative ideas, some not so good, but a whole ton of good faith efforts to hand the devs some ideas for our profesion. I participated for a while in a lot of them, but in that year, the number of ideas that have become a reality is equal to zero.
Next year, I'm sure I'll look back and say the same. The devs don't have the time to spend on our profession and likely never will.
I don't mean to ignore good threads, but when I read an excellent idea like Eaca's, my firse response at this point is always "Great idea. Never get implemented." And so I don't summon the energy to participate because I just don't see the point.
Maybe I should participate more on those threads, and I know you've started quite a few excellent ones too, but at the end of the day, I know all my creative thinking is essentially for naught. You may think I'm being pessimistic, but I think I'm being realistic.
Dreaming is fun, but when every dream I have is unachievable, I get bummed out. Me getting bummed out leads to depression, which leads to frustration, which leads to me quitting the game. I know this because it happened before, so now I try very hard to control which threads I participate in.
Anyway, it's not personal or any sort of peverse desire to see such creative ideas die.
However, and this is the reason I don't participate as much as I should on such threads, I have zero faith that the devs will ever implement something like that. Or any of the ideas ever repesented here. I really hate to say that, but it's the honest truth.
I've seen countless threads with fantastic ideas fly by for over a year now. Some extremely creative ideas, some not so good, but a whole ton of good faith efforts to hand the devs some ideas for our profesion. I participated for a while in a lot of them, but in that year, the number of ideas that have become a reality is equal to zero.
Next year, I'm sure I'll look back and say the same. The devs don't have the time to spend on our profession and likely never will.
I don't mean to ignore good threads, but when I read an excellent idea like Eaca's, my firse response at this point is always "Great idea. Never get implemented." And so I don't summon the energy to participate because I just don't see the point.
Maybe I should participate more on those threads, and I know you've started quite a few excellent ones too, but at the end of the day, I know all my creative thinking is essentially for naught. You may think I'm being pessimistic, but I think I'm being realistic.
Dreaming is fun, but when every dream I have is unachievable, I get bummed out. Me getting bummed out leads to depression, which leads to frustration, which leads to me quitting the game. I know this because it happened before, so now I try very hard to control which threads I participate in.
Anyway, it's not personal or any sort of peverse desire to see such creative ideas die.
Oqua
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:22 pm
#3
Tandava wrote:
Its time we tried being machievellian about the whole thing, forget our wounded pride and ego and defensiveness and wrap ourselves around those professions we hold ourselves apart from. We want all combat professions and half the crafters pushing for stuff that will benefit us. Eaca's could very well be it.
I guess thats just it..the thing I am getting confuzzled over Tandava.
I don't feel like I am "holding myself apart" from anyone. My husband is a combat/crafter/jedi...as am I, but with entertainer thrown in the mix.
I guess I don't get how me actually "seeing" it from all angles and not blowing a gasket over the removal of buffbots is me "holding myself apart".
If anything....
I am on it, around it, and all up in it. 
Tandava
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:33 pm
#4
Its about integrating ourselves more into the non-entertainment community. We've becomea bitcloseted since hologrinding and more divisive and we do not go out to the other professions to work with them on their ideas and ours. I think we need to for a variety of reasons. I think we should start picking some things to do this with.
Oqua
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:38 pm
#5
I am all for this. I really am...I think playing a multitude of classes has helped me "walk a mile in their shoes" so to speak.
I don't mind working with others...I just don't wish us to lose sight of our own goals as the expense of this.
Eaca
Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:32 pm
#6
The ent comunity needs to get behind an idea that can not only revitalize the live comunity but also allow our services to be available to general SWG comunity as they need us. Saying that people should suck up not finding entertainers on off peak hours because they trashed us is NOT a valid argument for someone living in a timezone that puts thier "prime time" right before and right after a server reset (its not the japanese, australians, and other asian country comunity members fault that there's no servers for them). I have to say I put a lot of time and thought into my proposal, one that rewards coming to see live entertainers while still making us available in remote areas for those off peak times. I used to be of the opinion to let the comuntities that shunned live entertainers for the last year or so sufffer when the bots go away, but I think we need to do our best to put the past behind us and try to find a way for our play style and thier play styles to mix, be it holo vids or holo net performances, or whatever else the community at large sees as a good solution. And not just the entertainer comunity, we need the support of the ENTIRE SWG community to get a change to better us through, lets face it, devs aren't going to put a large effort into the the needs of a small percentage of the population, but if we can get pistoleers, rifleman, carbineers, TK's, fencers, swordsman, pikeman, BH's, smugglers, all walks of life in the SW community saying "entertainers need a change, and this is what we'd like to see" so long as what we want remains reasonable and relatively ballanced, then the change they make isn't for the good of a small percentage of the population, its for the good of the game, and THAT they may be willing to do.
Oqua
Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:42 pm
#7
Eaca,
I have never said that people should just "suck up not finding entertainers on off peak hours because they trashed us".
I have said I have nothing to prove to anyone...I have always been available when time permits..I have always been polite, even when declining services to another.
What I am saying is this.....
I play at all hours of the night sometimes (being a mother of three gives me very little time to play other then the middle of the night). I completely understand the "not being able to find a *fill in the profession*". Believe it or not, its not just a plight shared by someone who doesn't live in the United States. We have off hours here in this country as well.
Why should allowances be made specifically for the dancers/musicians of SWG? Why not for all the professions I might need and can't find in a timely manner?
Thats what I am not understanding.
My husband and I have both been sidelined more readily by not finding a doctors buffs then by not finding an entertainers......yet I don't ever see this being brought up in any other professions threads but ours? Why is that?
I am sure you did put alot of thought in your idea...I applaud you for your hard work. But again, as I stated in Drygo's post, if you can show me where this won't have a negative impact to those who are struggling to find xp in the cantinas (which was a big problem I had with buffbots)....if you can show me how this won't just be something to reaffirm in the SWG communities minds that a live entertainer isn't "needed" (like every other profession when elite services are sought after).....
Then I will quit asking questions.
Until then, this looks like something just to placate....and I am really not understanding why I, as an elite profession in this game which spends many skill points and hours to acquire, have to do this when no other in this realm has to.
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:27 am
#8
AH it ate my beautiful message! *&$^#F#F&# alright fine....bad...try again.
This won't be nearly as good. Alright I checked my forum title today with the pretty colors and found I was listed asCommunity Advocate and that's probably a pretty good title for me. I'm a crusader at heart. I've never tried to convince a Dev of anything but on my own server roleplay tends to spin off around me invariably. Maybe its irresistable force meets immoveable object but its worth one more try. Did you know we have this option?
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: Another evening with the SWG Devs
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hey guys & gals......
hey guys & gals......
i went to my second "meetup" in N Austin last nite....Got to meet Kurt "Thunderheart" Stengel....who is a pretty cool guy...
We had a great crowd at BB Rovers in N Austin, about 8 players, and 2 devs....(plus 3 ladies in their 50s who were hitting on me from the table next to us.....they kept wanting me to smoke my pipe cause they said they loved the smell....then after a few glasses of wine they became a bit more bold......well, enough of that).....most of the players were from Corbantis, and very few if any are RPers, but one or two may be starting Alt chars, and coming to Kettemoor.....I'll make RPers out of em yet!!!!!
According to Kurt, he is an avid RPer, and really does support what we are doing (The RP comunities that is)....but he is not the final word on anything by any means as the community leader for SWG, and he says (and I believe him) that he can only offer up ideas to the "team", and if they get shot down for whatever reason, its not his fault......I can empathize with this completely.
As for future support from the Devs, we just need to come up with a solid, plausible storyline, something that wont screw with the "continuity" as it were, and if we give them a suitable amount of time, Kurt says the Devs WILL help with RP stories and events.....WE NEED TO USE THIS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
Update on the Hutt faction is not really good.....it wont be in game this year, and no telling when in '05........DAMNIT. (but it WILL be in game)
He also talked about the combat rebalance.....and I asked about my crappy master commando and how its great for PvE but blows goats for PvP......welp....Kurt said he has a Master Commando on Corbantis himself, and that I shouldnt necessarily kill it off.....and that once the combat rebalance hits, ALL classes will have a chance to be effective in PvP.....this is GOOD NEWS.
We shot the**** for awhile longer, if I remember anything else I'll add it....
Lafitte
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Lafitte leads one of the roleplay groups on Kettemoor. Liklihood Kett will use it? Very, very small. We don't have a very active community there, but I was suprised to know about it and had I continued playing would have tried using them.
Its true we've begged, pleaded, threatened, held our breath, reasoned and they've ignored us. But it also occurs to me that everyone comes to our forums and we as dancers almost never ever go to their forums and we're supposed to be the social ones. Instead of finding those things that are good for our profession, we need to find those things we can do and enjoy that are good for everyone's profession, then sell it to them so they push OUR agenda. We might be able to get some riders onto it with things we like.
Its time we tried being machievellian about the whole thing, forget our wounded pride and ego and defensiveness and wrap ourselves around those professions we hold ourselves apart from. We want all combat professions and half the crafters pushing for stuff that will benefit us. Eaca's could very well be it.
And have grounds to compromise and bargain with them don't just say ONLY healing no buffs, be willing to give ground to get something else if necessary, make them then use their voice and correspondent for the same cause and push a change or request for coding from 15 profession forums and not just 1 or 2. Add in a cohesive thought out and agreed on plan into the appropriate server forums with the right person selling it for additional noise and commentary.
We aren't doing that. We've never really done that. But why not try? Isn't it worth it to us?
I work in a corporate environment, its doensn't matter how good the idea is, if it doesn't have the right backing it doesn't fly. Let us construct the right backing. Let us see what we MUST have, what we are willing to compromise on, and what we refuse to budge with. Lets take up a few ideas that combat and crafters can all benefit from, make sure a majority of us like it, then choose people or Panthu to sell it to other forums with enough of us to go their respectfully to explain and encourage it and see if we can't get a MOVEMENT started.
I'd be willing to walk onto the TK and other forums to help sell and do it in a way to encourage and flatter them for it. Because it IS about us but we have to do some work so others see the common light for it.
Rabenschwinge
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:10 am
#9
hm...
I think it isn't much helpful to demand new features over and over. Espacially not with new variants of old ideas over and over. It would be more helpful to try and find new ways to enjoy the game, being dancer in our case. That does not mean we shouldn't keep pressing SWG developers, it just means we should work a bit on ourselves.
Technical things like "Which dance do you use how in a group?" or "Which outfits shall every entertainer in his backpack to group with random people?" or "How do you synchronize a bands effects the best way?" and plying things like "New furniture ideas for you theatre an cantina" or "How do you arrange a show that will stay in peoples mind forever?" or "New roleplaying ideas focused on entertainers." or "Combining storyline invents with gigs" or "Dancing in in the wilderness" or "Being a dancer of your guild" that's what I'd like to here. I tried once or twice, but didn't find much interest. Neither here nore similiar ideas in the Infinity forum.
Sure we all discussed it and there is much of it in the FAQ already, but there is so much more there was to say. Sometimes I already get the feeling that selling buffs in sleazy, dark cantinas and an exclusive entertainer party from time to time is all there is to being dancer for most here in the forum, while I sure do know from seeing the one or the other in game it is not this way. So why not just talk more about what is fun to us?
I think it isn't much helpful to demand new features over and over. Espacially not with new variants of old ideas over and over. It would be more helpful to try and find new ways to enjoy the game, being dancer in our case. That does not mean we shouldn't keep pressing SWG developers, it just means we should work a bit on ourselves.
Technical things like "Which dance do you use how in a group?" or "Which outfits shall every entertainer in his backpack to group with random people?" or "How do you synchronize a bands effects the best way?" and plying things like "New furniture ideas for you theatre an cantina" or "How do you arrange a show that will stay in peoples mind forever?" or "New roleplaying ideas focused on entertainers." or "Combining storyline invents with gigs" or "Dancing in in the wilderness" or "Being a dancer of your guild" that's what I'd like to here. I tried once or twice, but didn't find much interest. Neither here nore similiar ideas in the Infinity forum.
Sure we all discussed it and there is much of it in the FAQ already, but there is so much more there was to say. Sometimes I already get the feeling that selling buffs in sleazy, dark cantinas and an exclusive entertainer party from time to time is all there is to being dancer for most here in the forum, while I sure do know from seeing the one or the other in game it is not this way. So why not just talk more about what is fun to us?
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:11 am
#10
If you want all services this way then you have more than enough reason to back the proposal because once it gains currency with any profession the proposal can be used for whatever you want. However we will not be discussing how doctors or anyone else will use it because we are not doctors. If you wish to argue this proposal to try to get doctors on board with a registration program then go for it I highly encourage it since it just spreads around more advertising for our needs. The fact that entertainers MUST be in a particular type of building and doctors don't is a primary reason for entertainers to need the system that much more. But you might be able to encourage use of med centers by putting a registration machine in there.
Still this is to try to streamline our needs and see how we can integrate it to the whole game system. If others want to jump on board they can if this ever gets that sort of currency.
Oqua
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:18 am
#11
Tandava,
I don't think that....I don't propose that at all...I basically say that in the hopes you will see how ludicrous it is for anyone to demand a class be on call and available at all hours and all times.
That takes away everything and MMO is supposed to be, and would be negating their classes as well. Why on earth would I do that to another class?
If the devs (and you) are for something like this though, I suggest you implement itin one fell sweep across the board with EVERY commodity. I shouldn't have to go and wage war against any profession if this is the direction the game is going.
Again, you fail to answer my question why its perfectly acceptable for you to demand this from us, yet not from every class in the game.
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:29 am
#12
There is not "Demand" Ocqua. You are placing hostility, resentment and aggression where there is no need here.
No entertainer is forced, or auto registered. This is for the convenience of entertainers AND the convenience of people far from a cantina.
If it is against your belief that convenience should be encouraged, that finding a way to meet other people's needs is even desirable then that is your opinion.
My opinion is that we typically state as entertainers that we LIKE to help people.
Most of us enjoy feeling useful to others. We like to interact with people that then appreciate our services.
If we can more easily offer those services in a live way that doesn't negatively impact us then it is my opinion that it is a desireable service.
If no entertainers are registered then someone needing the services is screwed or will use a buffbot.
If someone is registered and on and its convenient yes convenient, they might be MORE likely to usea live entertainer then a buffbot because they get to see a cool little live holovid, pay for something that makes their experience more star warsy and incidentally supports a live entertainer.
If it helps live buffers and healers connect to people that would normally avoid them like the plague, or want to fiddle with the cool new interface, or are sitting in their ranger camp wounded then its helping us connect, and make money and be useful with our service and feel good about ourselves.
There is no forcing and the whole catering to others expectations sound truly out of place. We need OUR expectations catered to as well and our expectations are we want money, jobs away from buffbots and our convenience of staying in large cantinas. Everyone wants their expectations catered too, sometimes with a compromise more than one person can get their expectations catered to and mutual satisfaction ensues. This one sounds like some of our expectations and their can be accomplished.
Oqua
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:44 am
#13
I love the spin you are putting on this(by this I am meaning my intent and my words)Tandava.
I am trying to be civil to you and anyone else who is offering up the compromises...you can at least do that to me and not try and paint me in a bad light, can't you? Or is that asking too much of you since I am asking an important question and not going away?
I want to help people too...anyone who knows me knows how I go the extra mile for friends and strangers alike. Don't ever intimate that I don't want to do that okay?
Lets work to improve our buffs, lets work to get register working, lets work to get some of the wonderful ideas that were suggested implemented (in a stickied thread I believe there were many good suggestions, none of which focused on these holovid/broadcast ideas).
I am sorry if I am not "jumping" on your little bandwagon....but I don't like the idea of "we have to fill the off peak need"..."we have to give the combat classes a reason towork with us" (I am paraphrasing...excuse if its not verbatim).
Sorry, but thats what you are saying..and have stated in numerous posts. And if you are makign it seem like I am hostile, I am just using the words you, other entertainers for compromise, and combat types have come here stating....so those aren't my words, please don't make it seem like they are.
****side note****I am going to try and refrain from posting back to you on this topic for a while, simply because the more and more I read your posts directed at me..and the way you are speaking to me...the more and more angered I am getting. I don't think I have been negative or rude to you, yet you are bordering on that...especially where you are attempting to twist my words.
And sorry, I don't deserve that in the least....especially when I am wanting us to be taken seriously as a class, commodity, etc. in the SWG. Having proficency in many aspects of the game, I know the galaxy won't collapse as we know it if bots go away...and I do think we can meet the supply and demand of the game...all the while garnering respect for our chosen professions.
Message Edited by Oqua on 10-01-2004 08:47 AM
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