Dancer Archive
Thread: Didn't know macroing was this bad.
I met a newbie dancer yesterdaythat had been playing for about a week who had all but two boxes to go to become a Master Dancer. She had been afk macroing 24/7 in Coronet with many others like her. It took me a little less than 2 months. It thoroughly ruined my day. I felt cheated. I felt degraded. I felt my accomplishments minimized. I felt anger and sadness. I felt like quitting.
Jaysia
And I'll tell you why you're the better dancer..
Do you think she'll be there in 2 months? Do you think she'll even be there in 2 weeks? I seriously doubt it. You are a dancer, she isn't. Stick with it, encourage new players, discourage people dabbling in macros. But don't give up.. Enough entertainers have already quit over this, it's just making things worse.
Personally, I feel sorry for the afk dancer that you describe. I have been a deancer since about a week after the game went live (not beta though) and I am not a master yet. True, I don't get to play as much as some do, so that may parly explain why I'm not a master yet, but to be honest, I've been having too much fun with the social aspect of dancing.
Very often I will be interacting with my guests at the cantina and forget for quite some time to do a flourish, I don't get all the dance experience I could, but I am forming a relationship with one of my guests.
When i get to be a master dancer I will have many dozens of close friends, if not more, (as I ma sure you do too) but the afk dancer doesn't have one yet. To me, that makes it all worth while! 
Iwen
Think of is as an artisan trade. Take tailoring, for example. 
Say, there is a friendly neighborhood tailor. She comes in the cantina every night and talks with you... offers to make you some of the basic level clothing for for free. She hasn't even hit Domestic Arts 4 yet. However, she is nice. So you accept her clothing.
As she gets up the skill tree, she lets you know. She gives you discounts. She still comes into the cantina every night and will often custom make you an outfit. Slowly, as time goes by, has developed a customer base. Then, about a week before she hits master, a new Master Tailor opens up and starts yelling for everyone to come to her because she is better. She has everything. Sure, some people will go to her for master level items, but I'm pretty sure that once the friendly tailor hits Master, everyone will go to her.
This sort of thing happens with dancers all the time. I'll be dancing in a cantina. Dancer A macroed her way to the top while at school. A customer walks in. I say, "Hello, <enternamehere>. Goodness. How did you get those wounds, dear? A kryte eat you?" I proceed to have a conversation. The dancer who was AFK her entire career has no customer skills. I'm making tips. She isn't. She leaves.
Trust me, dear. Master Dancers/Musicians are a dime a dozen. What really counts is your staying power. The longer you stick with it, the bigger your customer base, the better time you have. Entertainertaining seems to be the only profession that is enhanced once you hit master. But the road there can be just as fun too.
I'll start out by saying that I'm not an Entertainer, I've been a Master CH, Master Ranger, BH, Master Artisan, Master Medic and Now, I'm almost a Master Commando (guess I couldn't make up my mind).
When, I heard about the Entertainer profession, I was all excited, since I've played 5 Bards on EQ and have loved Bards since the old C64 Bard's Tale game.
But, when I made my first SWG Entertainer and saw so many macro'd dancers and musicians, I lost hope. Now, after the game has has some time to evolve and I've switched Galaxies (from Chilastra to Tempest), I see the value of TRUE Entertainers.
As a combat gumby, I generally hate having to run to town, find a cantina and hope that there is someone there to heal my BF. My past experiences in the Cantinashave included people offering to cyber for credits, to people that spam meto give them stuff. Not exactly what I ran into town for.
I was fortunate to find a couple of dancers and musicians on Chilastra that remembered me and said 'Hey Tek, how's it been?'. They asked about my new pets and remembered our conversation about a quest that I was running. You can bet your boots that not only did I /tip them well, but I gave them all of the spare clothes that I looted and even gave one of them a house.
I didn't give them all of that stuff because I wanted/needed something in return. I gave it because they made my gaming experience feel genuine. After killing hordes of NPCs and running pointless KILL mission after pointless KILL mission... it was nice to have someone actually talk to me. 
Now, that I'm about to have no reason to earn xp (happens when you Master and run out of skill points), I'm going to have a LOT more time to just socialize and hang out.
I was so excited when I joined a large PvP battle on Tempest and realized that one of the guys shooting at me was the same Musician that I had just been talking to in the Cantina (we were talking about Starsky and Hutch of all things). It turned out that he was a Covert Rebel and I was a Covert Imperial. There we were, shooting at one another and I had /tipped him 1000 credits for healing me only twenty minutes earlier.
Now, when we see one another, we roleplay a bit (Rebel Scum... Imperial Oppressor), and then /tell one another "Hey man, how's it been?"
So... to make my LONG story short.... I DO NOT /tip afk entertainers. I DO NOT /tip entertainers that do not interact with me (even a 'Hi Tec' will do).
Of course, I hope that none of you guys/gals are mad when I just rush in for a quick 20BF heal and /tip 300 credits with a fast /salute as I rush back into battle.
Tec Zun - Imperial Commando of Tempest
I have been playing for 2 months. I have about 1/2 of the Dancer boxes filled in. Which, as any of you who have mastered know, means I have 3/4 of the experience left to be earned because it is exponential.
Know what? I am in no rush. I am enjoying my character quite thoroughly, thank you very much, and have no reason to run full tilt to "finish" her. She's fine where she is... and when she just happens to level after I RP and dancer her around, that's fine, but in the mean time I ignore the skill progress bars and just play the game.
You'll be amazed at how much fun it can be when you aren't always watching for the next skill box to be filled in.
C
I have been playing a dancer/entertainer from beta 3. I did every flourish the first two times through to master dancer. The third time I made a macro that shortened the amount of keystrokes It took. Never once afk danced my skill up yet even my closest friend in the game accused me (jokingly to her) of having been afk to get my skill.. It really made me mad. I didn't feel like quitting but I did feel like dropping her as a friend. The devs really need to put a stop to the afk nonsense. Go to any cantina on Lowca and you'll find at least three afk musicians and maybe a dancer.
I have just got my Novice Dancer box finally and can safely say I haven't afk danced my way there and throughly enjoyed it. Admit to the occasional disappearance due to food or nature breaks etc but no 24/7 macro's. I'm not solely a dancer as it is more a friendly pass time as I wander through the galaxy selling my wares, fighting bad guys and healing the sick. (scout/artisan/Fencer,brawler/medic)
I do use macro's to setup timed flourishes and interesting combo's, complete dance routines etc, but at most these last 10 mins or so. These just allow me to talk with the clients easier without worrying about hitting another flourish.
As a male dancer I can say it is tough to make money but a heck of a lot of fun in the cantina's. Talking to every client that comes in, cracking a joke or two. I usually end up with a tip over the more experienced female dancers on occasion.
I don't personally worry about the AFK dancers/musicians/artisans etc, and all others that moan that grinding is boring. Enjoy what you do, enjoy the level your at, get that excitement of gaining a skill you know you have worked hard to get.
To those that 24/7 macro, heavy grinders etc :Please take alook out the side window and enjoy some of the scenery you are missing by whilst trying to coax more speed out of the race car you are trying to get to a finish line that does not exist. See you in 2 months, if your still here !
I'm Novice Dancer, currently working on Dance Knowledge 4, on Eclipse in the Dearic Cantina.
We had a few AFK Macro Dancers in there, but they are gone now. Our Cantina might not be filled with 20 Entertainers/Dancers or Musicians, but we have something that is worth more: Fun and Friendship and comfy atmosphere.
We are helping each other out, having fun with our customers, and we have many friends/players that come in, sit there for 3 hours chatting, healing and helping us out.
We're having fun, we working our way up to Master Dancer slowly, but with the help of the players that like our chatting, teasing, joking andfunmaking.
Our AFK Macro'ers went to either Nashal or on another planet because the players love quality over quantity or being available for 24/7.
P.S. A big thanks to all the Medics that sit in the Cantina for hours to help me get the exp for Dance Knowledge 4 and keep me on my toes.
Cinn Val'lagor/Twi'lek Novice Dancer
Nastrad Legion
Dearic on Talus/Eclipse
Jaysia,
I know what you mean about how it feels like being cheated, but it really isn't. If anything it is they who are missing out on the experience of what it is to bean entertainer in SWG. Of course, having said that everyone has their own play style and it may be that once they hit master they will actually start playing and learn how to entertain... *shrug*
But you can rest well knowing that you have worked hard and know the dances... know all the moves... know what works, know which customers like what, have regulars who come back to see you because you are you and NOT because you have some title over your head.
The best thing you can do is just let them play their game and you focus on yours... it's what I do anyway Just for the record I dance and play at the keyboard, I do have some routines mainly for shows and the only time I danced afk for some hours was so I could dance lyrical in a particular show the following night So still pressing those keys working away with exotic2 as I have 6 boxes left for Master Dancer. Does it bother me that I can't do all the dances yet and there are people that can? No. I'm just enjoying the journey and enjoying what I have to look forward to when I see such wonderful things as exotic 4 /flo 2 - I can't wait for that one!
Anyway, have fun- don't let a few afkers drive you away
As you can see, Jaysy, you're not alone in this by any means. I've felt exactly like you -- worthless, wasted, devalued by those who would turn my profession into a graphical Word macro.
But then I realized that they can't MAKE me feel anything. It's my own job to find ways to be a better dancer than they are (not that hard), to create a large circle of friends whose support and connection will stand me in good stead for a long time.
It took me about 2 months to make master without macroing. I've been taking private gigs since then, which haven't been frequent enough for my taste, but at least I still feel like she's a dancer. Meanwhile, the most egregious of the AFK LAMERs I knew have all dropped off the face of the earth, probably bored to tears with the title they earned so effortlessly without the social skills to accompany it.
And then this week, there was another turn of events. I was on Dathomir and ran into a dancer I'd known probably from Day One of release. I hadn't seen her in ages. She told me of a band that was forming on my server to do tours and gigs, and they needed a few Master Dancers. When she told me who was in the band, I nearly choked up -- I already knew most everyone in the band because I'd grown up with them, including my favorite male wookiee Master Dancer I hadn't seen most of them in ages.
I'm hopping with excitement now, and it really feels like all that work and time I spent will pay off. These folks are so much fun to be with -- and every one of them actually played their way to their title. It just took time and work, but the payoff is worth it.
Don't lose hope, Jaysy. Be the best you can be and it will work out.
One thing I do want to say folks is that I think you are all viewing the afk issue as a little too black and white.I have afk macro danced. Ihave also spenttime dancing in the cantina actively while conversing with the regulars. Our cantina usually has a 50/50 blend of afk and active entertainers. There is almost always someone dancing during the day, and during peak hours we have nice sized groups formed.
I dont afk dance to be uber... Heck, I havent even made my way out of entertainer yet. I come to the cantina a couple times a week, and after a little while talking I might turn on my macro and go afk while I make dinner. I dont expect tips while afk, and I dont care if I get dropped from the group (though i usually dont). At my current rate, Ill be a decent dancer in a couple months. Without any macroing - Ild be lucky to ever reach dancer at all.
Dancing is my secondary profession, I am mainly a tailor. If a little afk macroing will get me enough skill to be able to enjoy dancing, then thats what Ill do. I don't support the 24/7ers any more than you guys do, and I only ever tip people that are active.
Where the heck am I going with this rambling.. I dunno, just want people to realize that not every dancer in the cantina with AFK over her head is a 24/7 power junkie.
Kaede of Bria