Dancer Archive
Thread: Something needs to be done about zombie leaders
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Sigarni
Wed Feb 18, 2004 6:26 am
#1
Ever entered a cantina only to find that the leader of the group is off somewhere else as is 90% of the group he is leading?
Happens to me all the time.
Now it is one thing to go afk, and I don't approve if you do, butI can live with it ifI have to, however, if the leader goes afk, then the group becomes dead. The only way to return the group to life is to reform it, and if the majority of members are afk, then the group cannot change and maintain healthy numbers.
So please if you are a leader, and you want to leave, or go afk, hand the leadership to someone else who is at their keyboard. Or disband the group if noone volunteers. Let new people coming in be a part of a living group.
It's a matter of leadership etiquette
Now I know some of you may read this and take it to heart, and I applaud you if you do. But I know many wont on both counts. So I would like for a group to have a way to replace a leader who is non-responsive.
Give each group member a /prod ability that they can use once every 10 - 15 minutes. If the leader is clearly not responding. A group member can /prod the leader and if he fails to respond in say 2 minutes, leadership of the group passes to the /prodder. The /prod could be restricted like an /invite is. ie if they have already been subjected to a prod, they cannot be prodded furthur until they respond, or lose leadership (and can no-longer be prodded anyway).
This would allow people who are actually willing to lead a group and are actually there, a way to keep the group together and yet keep it alive and growing.
PurpleTwilek
Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:31 am
#3
Personally I think this is an excellent idea. It was a real pain when I was levelling dancer. Now I'm Master and I don't have to live in cantinas anymore, I still feel awful for new dancers trying to break into afk groups. It's just not fair on the "real" dancers 
ArgentWulf
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:22 am
#4
PurpleTwilek wrote:
Personally I think this is an excellent idea. It was a real pain when I was levelling dancer. Now I'm Master and I don't have to live in cantinas anymore, I still feel awful for new dancers trying to break into afk groups. It's just not fair on the "real" dancers
My sentiments exactly. It was hard enough before player cities and holos, I can only imagine what it must be like for a "live" dancer working their way up know. Leadership, means responsibility, if you are not going to be present for more then a couple minutes give lead to someone else, not that most people will take it mind you, but thats another story. If no one will take it disband the group. The live players can reform and as for the AFKers....
JasonK
Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:07 am
#5
Form a new group with all the ATKers. You don't like those AFKers anyways.
Tavian_McMaster
Sun Feb 22, 2004 12:35 pm
#6
Sigarni wrote:
Ever entered a cantina only to find that the leader of the group is off somewhere else as is 90% of the group he is leading?
Happens to me all the time.
Now it is one thing to go afk, and I don't approve if you do, butI can live with it ifI have to, however, if the leader goes afk, then the group becomes dead. The only way to return the group to life is to reform it, and if the majority of members are afk, then the group cannot change and maintain healthy numbers.
So please if you are a leader, and you want to leave, or go afk, hand the leadership to someone else who is at their keyboard. Or disband the group if noone volunteers. Let new people coming in be a part of a living group.
It's a matter of leadership etiquette
Now I know some of you may read this and take it to heart, and I applaud you if you do. But I know many wont on both counts. So I would like for a group to have a way to replace a leader who is non-responsive.
Give each group member a /prod ability that they can use once every 10 - 15 minutes. If the leader is clearly not responding. A group member can /prod the leader and if he fails to respond in say 2 minutes, leadership of the group passes to the /prodder. The /prod could be restricted like an /invite is. ie if they have already been subjected to a prod, they cannot be prodded furthur until they respond, or lose leadership (and can no-longer be prodded anyway).
This would allow people who are actually willing to lead a group and are actually there, a way to keep the group together and yet keep it alive and growing.
Well, let me run a situation past you.
Last night I formed a group and was leader for about 4 hours. I would check at least every 20 minutes to invite for any open spots, and kept the group at max for pretty much that whole time. Then at about 2am I decide I want to go to sleep. I get on group chat and ask if anyone else wants to be leader.I ask for about 15 minutes before I give up and decide no one else is at their keyboard either.
I then have two choices:
1) promote one of the AFK's who might go offline at any time, thus disbanding the group.
2)keep the leadership myself and leave my macro running, knowing I will not drop out unless I lose power or something, keeping the group running.
Having some kind of group-overthrow voting option would be great though. But as it is, there isn't a whole lot we can do unless someone who is willing to take leadership is going to be at their keyboard.
Tiaga
Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:08 pm
#7
I don't see what the problem here is. If you think going AFK is fine, then you have to deal with the fact that other people will go AFK as well. Unless you want to be hypocritical and blame everyone else for being AFK when you want to go AFK.
Personally I've never had this problem. If I'm group leader, I just say in group that I'm leaving, and if someone wants leader speak up, otherwise I'm disbanding the group. Never fails to get a response. Of course, I usually avoid places with large masses of AFK people, so I'm rarely in that situation.
Personally I've never had this problem. If I'm group leader, I just say in group that I'm leaving, and if someone wants leader speak up, otherwise I'm disbanding the group. Never fails to get a response. Of course, I usually avoid places with large masses of AFK people, so I'm rarely in that situation.
kirah_ashlin
Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:32 am
#8
Yes, but this is about the less than considerate group leaders who don't seem to care about the incoming live entertainers, not those of us who actually DO care. . . . I've seen it happen far too many times. The other day it happened in the group my secondary character was a part of. The group leader needed training and had to run to the NPC trainer to get it. Perfectly understandable, right? However, he was gone fornearly 30 minutes - in the middle of a battle going on nearby! In the meantime 3 or 4 entertainers came in looking for invites into the group and no one was there to help them. Worse,my characterwas the only one willing to let them know that the leader was away. The leader should havepassed the leadership off to someone, even temporarily. I do, Roho does. Responsible leaders do. You never know but that that "quick phone call" will end up being an hour long! 
Which makes me think of one of my pet peeves: group leaders (and members) who do not answer your requests for an invite to the group - even when you /tell them! I don't care if the group is full - make a macro that let's everyone know it! It is the group leader's responsibility to run the group in a professional manner. If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be leader.
I am so glad I am a master dancer now and don't need torely on a group for xp or recognition. NowI am the one being asked to /join a group as soon as I walk through the door! LOL! I do, however, know what it's like to be a novice dancer (or entertainer) who can't get into a group for love or money! Its frustrating and even hurtful at times.
Tiaga
Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:06 pm
#9
But there already is a game mechanic for the majority to elect a new leader.
They disband and reform the group. It's what we did when I was coming up the skill tree. This problem is created by the AFK crowd, and people's unwillingness to disband because they don't want to lose the xp boost from the AFK members. (Which is silly, since in my experience these days healing xp comes slower, and having more members doesn't give a healing xp bonus.)
It would, of course, be nice if /makeleader didn't require the new leader be nearby. But that doesn't solve the problem if the leader doesn't want to give it up. (Some don't.) For that, the good old disband and reform is the best bet.
They disband and reform the group. It's what we did when I was coming up the skill tree. This problem is created by the AFK crowd, and people's unwillingness to disband because they don't want to lose the xp boost from the AFK members. (Which is silly, since in my experience these days healing xp comes slower, and having more members doesn't give a healing xp bonus.)
It would, of course, be nice if /makeleader didn't require the new leader be nearby. But that doesn't solve the problem if the leader doesn't want to give it up. (Some don't.) For that, the good old disband and reform is the best bet.
JasonK
Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:01 pm
#10
It's not AFKers fault that people who don't like them still want to group with them to leech healing xp.
Tiaga wrote:
This problem is created by the AFK crowd, and people's unwillingness to disband because they don't want to lose the xp boost from the AFK members. (Which is silly, since in my experience these days healing xp comes slower, and having more members doesn't give a healing xp bonus.)
Ostracized
Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:22 am
#11
Tiaga wrote:
But there already is a game mechanic for the majority to elect a new leader.
They disband and reform the group. It's what we did when I was coming up the skill tree. This problem is created by the AFK crowd, and people's unwillingness to disband because they don't want to lose the xp boost from the AFK members. (Which is silly, since in my experience these days healing xp comes slower, and having more members doesn't give a healing xp bonus.)
It would, of course, be nice if /makeleader didn't require the new leader be nearby. But that doesn't solve the problem if the leader doesn't want to give it up. (Some don't.) For that, the good old disband and reform is the best bet.
No, this is a problem with bad leaders for the groups. Someone being an idiot has nothing to do with being AFK. its just a level of rudeness...
probably caused because the Devs decided to force people to grind through skillsets they find boring.
And from what ive seen. This happens not when a Leader GOES AFK... but rather then a leader /makeleader on someone who is already AFK.
Not the AFKers fault for someone being an idiot also. They may not even know they are now responcible for the group.
Try to consider other possibilities then just blaming AFKers.
Faymar
Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:03 am
#12
I think /prod is a brilliant idea.
I've also led groups where noone has been willing to take leadership when I need to leave or wish to have an afk for half an hour. Sometimes it's as simple as "I can take leadership soon but not yet" and you sit waiting around for them to be free so you can go. /prod helps that situation as well: if noone takes leadership, you leave it on yourself and go and make dinner (or whatever) ... if in the meantime someone decides they are willing, they can use the /prod command to get leadership for you.
-Fay
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