Dancer Archive

the only people that will argue with that one this forum are non dancers and buffbot owners, and a buffbot owner is responsible for me losing a mind enhancement attachment a few days ago.

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Schardour wrote:

I've posted the following findings on my Server Forums.

30 Minutes in Theed

Today I danced in Theed. Not unlike any other day, I enjoyed the company of friends and offered my services for mind buffing. But something was different today. I was counting.

I had a purpose. Most people don't count for absolutely no reason, excluding those with obsessive-compulsive disorder and other such maladies. At 10:42 am this Sunday morning, I greeted a player as he entered the cantina. This player did not respond. Instead, he walked directly past me and sat at the feet of Karina, the local BuffBot. This sparked my curiosity. How well-trained are her patrons?

So, for half an hour, I counted.

Between 10:42 and 11:12, several players walked into the cantina to be buffed by Karina (mornings tend to be slow in the cantinas). I was the only Master Dancer buffing in that time period, as Esharra had to log an alt to take care of the city, and Lly had left at about the same time Karina logged in. The following numbers came out of this short survey. Keep in mind that I was easily visible when entering the cantina, with my Master Dancer tag loudly displayed. I personally greeted each of the following players. Only players that were greeted in spatial by myself are shown below. (Over 90% of the players that entered the cantina between 10:42 and 11:12 were personally greeted by me.) I will not include the few that I did not speak to directly.

10:42 - 10:51

Buffed by Karina

Avin

Fhjull

Seriah

Ot'ka

Sharbor

Jaisin

Kelsea

Buffed by Myself

N/A

10:52 - 11:01

Buffed by Karina

MegaMoc

Kolental

Buffed by Myself

Rall

11:02-11:12

Buffed by Karina

Tedon

Sephiros

Gremm

Diarmuid

Kisani

Buffed by Myself

Sephiros (Dance Buff after walking directly to Karina for a Musician buff)

Out of all of these players, only Rall had the forethought to ask for a Mind Buff in Spatial. Not a SINGLE ONE of the other players used Spatial chat to find a Mind Buff after entering the Cantina. 15 of 16 players walked past me (alive and greeting) and directly to Karina for their mind buff. Now, tell me how BuffBots do not harm the entertainer professions.

(Lly, who had left Theed to find better business arrived in the Dantooine Mining outpost only to leave after attempting to compete with another BuffBot. All High-Traffic areas are covered by bots, limiting the income available to masters of an entire two Elite Professions. "Move elsewhere" is not a valid argument.)

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To be honest on my server quite a lot of us have been "trained" to not bother to ask master dancer or musicians for buffs any more.. after months of people walking into cantinas and asking -in spatial- for a buff, offering large sums of money for buffs it kinda wears thin.

With me I gave up seriously looking for an active buffer after those self same buffs and the rejections of the few master dancers and musicians who bothered to reply.

Periodically I try again, masochist that I am, to get an active buffer... the last rejection I received was from a master musician who rather rudely told me she was dancing.

So much for me wanting to help live entertainers.


I go out of my way to try and find an at the keyboard entertainer when I need healing. I tip whenever I get healing. I pay for buffs, and I pay a reasonable amount of money for those buffs, usually above what I am asked for.... but that is rare since noone buffs.

The buffbots are not what damaged the entertainer business, they came as a result of people -wanting- buffs and being unable to reliably get them. They are a symptom of the overall problem and not the cause of it.

And no, I do not own a buffbot.

Message Edited by Ariven on 08-22-2004 11:30 AM

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Ariven wrote:

To be honest on my server quite a lot of us have been "trained" to not bother to ask master dancer or musicians for buffs any more.. after months of people walking into cantinas and asking -in spatial- for a buff, offering large sums of money for buffs it kinda wears thin.

With me I gave up seriously looking for an active buffer after those self same buffs and the rejections of the few master dancers and musicians who bothered to reply.

Periodically I try again, masochist that I am, to get an active buffer... the last rejection I received was from a master musician who rather rudely told me she was dancing.

So much for me wanting to help live entertainers.


I go out of my way to try and find an at the keyboard entertainer when I need healing. I tip whenever I get healing. I pay for buffs, and I pay a reasonable amount of money for those buffs, usually above what I am asked for.... but that is rare since noone buffs.

The buffbots are not what damaged the entertainer business, they came as a result of people -wanting- buffs and being unable to reliably get them. They are a symptom of the overall problem and not the cause of it.

And no, I do not own a buffbot.

Message Edited by Ariven on 08-22-2004 11:30 AM

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How many master musicians and dancers do you have on your friends list? I have dozens on every server I play. I also have on my friends list master archs, tailors, weaponsmiths, armoursmiths, doctorsand smugglers. Any service that I require to effectively play the type of character I enjoy I have contacts with the people that play those types of supportcharacters. That way when I need a service that only they provide I simply /t masterdancer Hey remember me? Any chance I could get a buff?

The fact is that these same people that run the afk buff bots perfer to play the game alone if at all possible. The create accounts to make their own items and any other healing or buffing support. Hell some of them even create extra combat characters to follow them around asisting in combat.

This is a social game. When you try to cheat that part out you break the game for the people who are not like you. Directly or indirectly by taking away income from crafters, raising the prices of in gameresources,by pulling too much money into the economy or by giving away service that should normally require payment (our case.)

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Ariven wrote:

To be honest on my server quite a lot of us have been "trained" to not bother to ask master dancer or musicians for buffs any more.. after months of people walking into cantinas and asking -in spatial- for a buff, offering large sums of money for buffs it kinda wears thin.

With me I gave up seriously looking for an active buffer after those self same buffs and the rejections of the few master dancers and musicians who bothered to reply.

Periodically I try again, masochist that I am, to get an active buffer... the last rejection I received was from a master musician who rather rudely told me she was dancing.

So much for me wanting to help live entertainers.


I go out of my way to try and find an at the keyboard entertainer when I need healing. I tip whenever I get healing. I pay for buffs, and I pay a reasonable amount of money for those buffs, usually above what I am asked for.... but that is rare since noone buffs.

The buffbots are not what damaged the entertainer business, they came as a result of people -wanting- buffs and being unable to reliably get them. They are a symptom of the overall problem and not the cause of it.

And no, I do not own a buffbot.

Message Edited by Ariven on 08-22-2004 11:30 AM

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Buffbots do hurt us. There is no doubt about that at all. I have never used one and never will but I have to agree with Ariven. I've said it before and I will again. I've spent time looking for mind buffs myself and it's tough. Do I have dancers/musicians on my friends list? As a dancer myself of course I do but they're not always on and when you're getting ready to do the 'vette or DWB with your guild, you don't always have time to wait for those friends to come on, if they do.Especially ifthey live over seas. There are those that refuse to buff even friends now too. I understand why and that's fine but how many options does that leave open? Like I said, I go without.

My guildmates were discussing this last night. Some don't even use mind buffs, only food and drink. A few complained about all the time they've spent searching to no avail for someone who buffs. Even though they found an entertainer sometimes, they were still frustrated with all the travel and time involved to find that individual. One guy has given up searching and now only uses the buffbots in the cantina on Dant. He doesn't like to but at least, he feels, they're always there so he doesn't have to run all over the place in the hopes of finding someone. He likes buffs because he hates to cost of foods and drinks so he feels he has no recourse.

Yes, some people will go straight to a bot as thought trained to. Remember we don't always catch everything is spatial either so some may miss your advertising. Others just do what they are used to doing or what they feel is quickest. It'll take alot of work to change their minds,but if we are persistent, we can. One client at a time.

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Reachwind wrote:
How many master musicians and dancers do you have on your friends list? I have dozens on every server I play. I also have on my friends list master archs, tailors, weaponsmiths, armoursmiths, doctors and smugglers. Any service that I require to effectively play the type of character I enjoy I have contacts with the people that play those types of support characters. That way when I need a service that only they provide I simply /t masterdancer Hey remember me? Any chance I could get a buff?

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I have two.. because there are none that interact enough to make me care to add them to my list... months of searching for someone willing to interact with me and willing to provide a service that I will pay good credits for have made me a jaded person...

I sit there in cantina for 10-15 minutes watching before I do a /watch or a /listen just to find a entertainer who is there and reactig and interacting (i.e. at the keyboard)... and when I have a significant amount to heal I try to find someone without a master tag in their bio so that they can get that healing XP.. heck with my doctor toon I even hide my master doc tag and go to the med centers when I need a lot of wounds healing to let people who need experience heal me instead of taking care of it myself...

I -want- to help, I -want- to give you business.. but as a whole it certainly doesn't feel like the entertainers -want- my help or business.. in the last 6 months now I think I have received 1 buff from an entertainer who was actually there.. and that was one given by an entertainer who probably liked the fact that I tipped her for my healing since I didn't ask for it..

I ask, I look, I pay attention... and no good results happen.

I see people mentioning that "we miss stuff in spatial" well zoom your camera back and watch the chat bubbles and quit paying exclusive attention to your group and guild chat if you want us to interact with you. I have mastered entertainer, I did it because it was fun... I enjoyed chatting in group chat with other entertainers.. I spent time in cantinas all alone and with masses of crowds... not because I had to grind it for a holo but because it was fun... so I know something of where you all are coming from.. and that is part of why I go out of my way to help out..

But

We as a general populace have been trained to not even bother...

And yes, I saw the comment about how the devs are working on a solution, and I have been watching discussions about it and what it might entail... and I can tell you that if we as a general populace are -forced- to interact with live entertainers like we are -forced- to interact for the stat migrations there are going to be a lot of very irritaed people, both entertainers and non-entertainers.. I for one dont appreciate being forced into a situation because the devs dont know how to deal with an issue in a reasonable manner... and at that point would not even bother getting buffs at all.. food will suffice..

So go ahead devs, kill another part of the game for us instead of making it FUN to interact.... and entertainers... if you want to solve this problem, then step up to the plate and play the game you want US to play.. we are NOT going to come begging you for buffs... but we WILL come to you for buffs if you bother to provide them on a regular or reliable basis.. this problem isnt just our side of the mandolin, it's yours as well...and until everyone involved on both sides of the aisle start working on this issue nothing will change, despite how much the dancers and musicians complain...

Assuming the server identifier is up to date under your avicon (Bria), Morgon, you are welcome to put me on your friends list and shoot me a /tell if you need a buff. I can also direct you to live dancers I know of that will also buff you.

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Domandred wrote:

Anyway so I say "Any entertainers not afk mind buffing for a large tip? I tip more then 3K but only to people not afk and not demanding it"

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We have every god damned right to ask for a set amount for our service. I would have denied you on the spot myself if I saw you say that.

So basically someone offered to help you get your precious mind buff at an amount that you felt was MORE than fair and instead of taking them up on it you stuck your nose in the air and went to someone else and paid more than four times as much.

We need NPC missions and the ability to ignore the player base entirely. Proof is in current state of the game for us.