Dancer Archive
Thread: Cantinas suck
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picklesSW
Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:28 am
#1
Why do I say this?
Well, ask yourself why you go to a real life bar. There's entertainment there. There's drinks, perhaps a live band, other people, TV screens, maybe gambling, great music to dance to.
What do we have in cantinas in Star Wars? Very little. The entertainment, because they haven't seen fit to give us additional content, is stale. Everyone has seen every dance, heard every song. There's very little room for creativity in the rigid structure they've given us that would actually spell interesting entertainment. There's no gambling, no screens, no sabacc, no ability to get drunk, nothing. When people think of cantinas, all they think about are getting healed and buffed. THAT SUCKS!
I live in a cantina on Starsider right now. Every night there's people in there, alive and at the keys, enjoying themselves. Nobody cares about buffing or healing. But it's fun, and lately they added a radio station that added a lot in terms of entertainment. I go there because it's a fun place to be, but it's a very rare thing to see a cantina with life like this. Why?
Why can't the cantinas actually ENTERTAIN? Let us drop actual gambling tables. Keep adding new dances and open up the rigid structure of dancing to allow more flexibility. Allow musicians to actually construct songs, I don't care how you do it. Rock and sw3 don't entertain anymore, I'm sorry. Hey, nice newsnet terminals you added to the game. Now let us drop them in cantinas and add our OWN news to them. Give us control over the lighting in cantinas, let us turn it down so lights have more of an effect.
Add more cantina choices. They all look the same and none provide for special content, like meeting rooms and the like.
Add Sabacc. Add other games. This is social content. Let people get drunk. Add death sticks. Fix speakers and microphones so they do something.
Add "note boards" to sell in-game advertisements. Add some animated lights. Add a marquee. There's so many things you can do.
Make the cantinas a fun place to be, give the combat and crafting people a reason to go there other than buffs and healing. Ask yourself why you go to a club on friday night, or to a concert, or to a casino, or to anything else that provides entertainment. Identify what you find fun about it, and then you're well on your way to discovering how to fix cantinas so they draw a crowd.
Draw a crowd, and we have an audience. Give us a live audience having fun, the money will roll in, either through tips, gambling or just an entry fee.
In my opinion, this is what we need. Not better buffing or more wounds, or heightened battle fatigue. We need better player cantinas that are actually entertaining for people to be in.
Well, ask yourself why you go to a real life bar. There's entertainment there. There's drinks, perhaps a live band, other people, TV screens, maybe gambling, great music to dance to.
What do we have in cantinas in Star Wars? Very little. The entertainment, because they haven't seen fit to give us additional content, is stale. Everyone has seen every dance, heard every song. There's very little room for creativity in the rigid structure they've given us that would actually spell interesting entertainment. There's no gambling, no screens, no sabacc, no ability to get drunk, nothing. When people think of cantinas, all they think about are getting healed and buffed. THAT SUCKS!
I live in a cantina on Starsider right now. Every night there's people in there, alive and at the keys, enjoying themselves. Nobody cares about buffing or healing. But it's fun, and lately they added a radio station that added a lot in terms of entertainment. I go there because it's a fun place to be, but it's a very rare thing to see a cantina with life like this. Why?
Why can't the cantinas actually ENTERTAIN? Let us drop actual gambling tables. Keep adding new dances and open up the rigid structure of dancing to allow more flexibility. Allow musicians to actually construct songs, I don't care how you do it. Rock and sw3 don't entertain anymore, I'm sorry. Hey, nice newsnet terminals you added to the game. Now let us drop them in cantinas and add our OWN news to them. Give us control over the lighting in cantinas, let us turn it down so lights have more of an effect.
Add more cantina choices. They all look the same and none provide for special content, like meeting rooms and the like.
Add Sabacc. Add other games. This is social content. Let people get drunk. Add death sticks. Fix speakers and microphones so they do something.
Add "note boards" to sell in-game advertisements. Add some animated lights. Add a marquee. There's so many things you can do.
Make the cantinas a fun place to be, give the combat and crafting people a reason to go there other than buffs and healing. Ask yourself why you go to a club on friday night, or to a concert, or to a casino, or to anything else that provides entertainment. Identify what you find fun about it, and then you're well on your way to discovering how to fix cantinas so they draw a crowd.
Draw a crowd, and we have an audience. Give us a live audience having fun, the money will roll in, either through tips, gambling or just an entry fee.
In my opinion, this is what we need. Not better buffing or more wounds, or heightened battle fatigue. We need better player cantinas that are actually entertaining for people to be in.
PoetDancer
Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:46 am
#3
Agreed. But my question is, as always, will the patrons allow the cantina to be fun?
We have games now. When has the Jubilee Wheel ever helped our cause? Or the cause of those patrons who hate the cantina?
I have little difficulty in seeing the wisdom of an increased cantina "fun factor." My only concern is that nobody really cares about making it work. In fact, many are intent on making it not work, because that's the only way they can advance.
We live in such a rich galaxy. Yet we have forces out there that are intent on throwing all of that out the window for the sake of efficiency. I try to make the cantina fun. Seems nobody but a handfull really care about that.
However, the whole combat rebalance may in fact make things better. BF healing fosters a fun atmosphere. Buffing under the November 3rd rules, I have found, causes stress. Perhaps things will get better if nobody need worry about buffing or being buffed, and we can all sit back, relax, and pass the time without any worries.
There was a time when I thought cantina games were a bad move. But that's only because of the fact that our class was turned on its head. My only fear was if the cantina were made more intrinsically fun, the last thing the players would do is incorporate us in it. Because to them, what we do seems more like work they have to labour to get through.
Else-Whira
Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:00 am
#4
I'd love to see a way for entertainers to add MORE content to a cantina (PC or NPC). I love the idea of us being able to place games. Make them something along the lines of a nalargon or omni box. Something only a master dancer, entertainer or musician can place that people can enjoy along with our show. For instance gaming tables, stages that work similar to scout camps (you'd place the stage and it would change the section of the NPC cantina you placed it in to look like an actual stage rather than an area between tables) and lottery droids.
On top of that I'd still really like to see the cantina look upgraded. Each cantina should have a distinct look and feel depending upon where in the galaxy it is. Just like the ID tents currently are. Mos Eisley cantina looks great! That doesn't mean though that every cantina in the universe aside from a PC cantina should look just like it.
On top of that I'd still really like to see the cantina look upgraded. Each cantina should have a distinct look and feel depending upon where in the galaxy it is. Just like the ID tents currently are. Mos Eisley cantina looks great! That doesn't mean though that every cantina in the universe aside from a PC cantina should look just like it.
Panthu
Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:37 am
#5
PoetDancer wrote:
We have games now. When has the Jubilee Wheel ever helped our cause? Or the cause of those patrons who hate the cantina?
Well, I can tell you why I personally don't play the Jubilee Wheel even when I'm bored and alone with a few creds to spare.... it's boring! There's no real challenge to it, there's no real skill, and there is nothing to look at. I'm a huge fan of mini-games and I can think of three related games that have incorporated them well:
- KotOR - Pazak, the fighting arena, races (single player game)
- TSO - Grouped objects: Pizza Maker, Maze Game (2-4 players needed)
- Toon Town - All the Trolley Games (can be done solo, better rewards and more challenging games when in a group)
TSO and Toon Town, while not Star Wars related, both are really great examples of how to do these in an MMORPG while encouraging socialization, not stopping it. In TSO, you could play the grouped objects with others with out having to "leave the party." In Toon Town, you do go into a mini-game instance with others (or solo), but the entry point is a good social spot in the little downtime city area(very much like cantinas are) and the games are fast paced, so people pop back out shortly.
Either way could work for SWG Cantina games and for Ents. I don't mind competing with a mini-game for people's attention. I'm pretty sure that I can snag people's attention, no matter why they came to the Cantina. 
It's not really anymore of a challenge than trying to keep someone from AFKing while they watch you or ignoring you and chatting in /guare now. Plus, it would give us something nice to do on our breaks. 
Esharra
Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:54 am
#6
Over the weekend I got to observe while a couple of friends (one an entertainer, the other a smuggler) played Sabacc with a few other players. My motivation - I own a cantina and I want to encourage these friends to play Sabacc and other games there (they've already got a couple of dice games they play regularly). I'd love for the devs to give us either an interface or objects to facilitate in-game gaming.
Aleyo
Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:06 pm
#7
Esharra wrote:Over the weekend I got to observe while a couple of friends (one an entertainer, the other a smuggler) played Sabacc with a few other players. My motivation - I own a cantina and I want to encourage these friends to play Sabacc and other games there (they've already got a couple of dice games they play regularly). I'd love for the devs to give us either an interface or objects to facilitate in-game gaming.
I was one of the players of the game, and we had a lot of fun with it
. The only problem with it at all was that the game was very slowed down by having to do a lot of trading between the players and the dealer to trade the physical objects being used as cards. An interface in-game to handle those parts of the game would make it just about perfect.I also have to point out that gambling is really really fun in-game, when done between players. And not just for the gamblers, but for those watching. In particular when you get very expressive over how the game is going (this is easy to do when a chance cube has come up red 7 times in a row!!), it's just plain entertaining for everyone involved.
Esharra
Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:12 pm
#8
Not to mention lucritive. The dealer made over a million credits. The player who won the most came out with over 7 million more than he walked in with. Yeah..I could see working a night oncein a while as a Sabacc dealer.
Aleyo wrote:
it's just plain entertaining for everyone involved.
Cendatinea
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:33 pm
#9
Oh Esharra, that's it, I am so inviting you to the next casino night on Kettemoor. We have a guy who has a "casino" and we play Sabaac and Snake eyes. It is a TON of fun.
Esharra
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:38 pm
#10
Just let us know Dath..we'll be there. But watch your pockets with Scip around..he has a tendency to win all my credits off of me.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:43 pm
#11
I'd like to see some sort of interactive games, as well. I'm not a gambling person so those don't interest me and I wouldn't know what to do if I were, but I'd like to see games that allow for entertainer/patron interaction.
Goldshadow
Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:46 pm
#12
Esharra wrote:
Just let us know Dath..we'll be there. But watch your pockets with Scip around..he has a tendency to win all my credits off of me.
Eshy -
When are you going to learn that Scip cheats?
Etdentarie
Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:11 pm
#13
I think the Gothyo clan holds the record for the longest played Snake Eyes game ever. What was it Dath, 2 hours?
*whisper* I think the dealer wanted to kill us all by the end.
*whisper* I think the dealer wanted to kill us all by the end.
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