Dancer Archive
Thread: Suggestions on what should be done and/or added. Comments? Your own ideas?
Well, I decided to post a bit on what I thought ought to be added and such. Pardon if it's a little disorganized or repetitive, I try not to be.
1. A lot of male dancers complain about the femininity of most of the dances. Personally, I don't find it a problem..HOWEVER, it should be addressed, since some male dancers DO. What can be done? Well, I don't think making males have one set of dances and females another is the answer. Some males may want the orginal version, some females may want the "male" version, and other roleplayers of the Dancer class will want both for the fact that they are a dancer and would know both either way. I agree.
Suggestion? Since ALL dances have two versions(or three or four in some cases), one of the versions should be made to the "male" version and do away with some of the ridiculous basic dances that we start with.
2. Get rid of the ridiculous basic dance stances we start with. Since we all fall at the same rate anyway, there's no need for the two versions where one looks better than the other. They have the same flourishes for the most part, it doesn't matter. Tie this in with number one. Make the second version a more masculine form of dance.
3. If #1 doesn't sit well, add dances that are more masculine in nature. Poplock is close, but is about the only one, since not many like Footloose and some actually like Poplock. I'm not sure about Formal...it seems to be taken after Ballet, which was an all-male dance at first, anyway....
4. The flourishes. This is moot, as supposedly(key word there) they're being fixed and motion captured this time around.
5. Take out the falls. Or give musicians bad notes. One or the other.
6. Better male clothing. This, too, is supposedly being worked on.
7. While Formal and Lyrical(versions 1, not sure about the second versions) look fine on our side...they're jumpy and odd-looking to other people. I don't know why. But I've noticed it while doing Formal myself, and having someone else doing the basic formal at the same time. While I look fine, it looks like my friend half-spins, stops, walks a few steps, and does the same thing. It looks odd. Fix it.
8. Bigger dancing space. Cantinas have no ROOM if multiple people are using formal or lyrical. Theatres are all well and good, but no one uses them. Perhaps adding a greater healing boost when theatres are used?
Well, that's all I can think of right now...
An added little idea: Couple dances
I would personally like to see a couple dance, where two dancers could group up in the same way as a band and then perform bandflourishes that would be matching.
Granted, one can do this partially already, but currectly, this only results in two dancers dancing mirrored flourishes, not the sort of couple flourishes that you might see dancersIRL do.
Most of your suggestions have already been raised with the Devs - for example, the fact that Master Dancers still fall down as much as novices or that the Lyrical animations are herky-jerky. And the lack of male focus in the Dancer profession, including outfits.
But let me point out that while I mostly agree with your points, it's also true that entertainers can compensate a great deal by using our own initiative. Theatres empty? Stage a publicized event with weapon and armor raffles and free booze. No outfits for male dancers? Get with a master tailor and use some imagination - one of the best male dancers I ever saw was a wookiee doing exotic waving a sword around. Cloaks, jackets, and armor can be assembled into a visually pleasing costume until SOE gives us something better.
When the original list was compiled by our correspondent, I mentioned a point that I think bears repeating. Entertainers need to have some skill or ability, at least by the master level, that makes a contribution to PVP or PvE groups. I think the developers should look seriously at increasing the melee/ranged combat bonus or granting greater defense against knockdown, dizzy, posture changes. If you want to develop combat as a second profession, the 106 skill points spent in dance ought to yield something more that is of value to a group.
Ilooli wrote:When the original list was compiled by our correspondent, I mentioned a point that I think bears repeating. Entertainers need to have some skill or ability, at least by the master level, that makes a contribution to PVP or PvE groups. I think the developers should look seriously at increasing the melee/ranged combat bonus or granting greater defense against knockdown, dizzy, posture changes. If you want to develop combat as a second profession, the 106 skill points spent in dance ought to yield something more that is of value to a group.
Master Dancers already get +7 to Ranged and Melee defense. While we can argue on whether it should be higher or something else again, it is already there.
And I don't necessarily agree that entertainers should have any kind of combat contribution. We are, first and foremost, NON combat professions. I have Tk skills, and a second character who is a marksman/scout if I want to kill things.
Let me quote from Raph's website (Holocron aka Designer Dragon) on this:
"Dr Cat's Stamp Collecting Dilemma
"Lots of people might like stamp collecting in your virtual world. But those who do will never play with those who like other features. Should you have stamp collecting in your world?" We know that there are a wide range of features that people find enjoyable in online worlds. We also know that some of these features are in conflict with one another. Given the above, we don't yet know if it is possible to have a successful world that incorporates all the features, or whether the design must choose to exclude some of them in order to keep the players happy."
Let's count ourselves lucky that this game even has non-combat professions aside from the conventional crafting classes. I'm all for better mind buffs and /focus commands, and the other professional enhancements we have asked for. But the thought of a dancer in a flesh wrap wriggling around her groupmates while they zurg a scyk lair makes me feel silly
Sinda wrote:
Master Dancers already get +7 to Ranged and Melee defense. While we can argue on whether it should be higher or something else again, it is already there.
And I don't necessarily agree that entertainers should have any kind of combat contribution. We are, first and foremost, NON combat professions. I have Tk skills, and a second character who is a marksman/scout if I want to kill things.
Let me quote from Raph's website (Holocron aka Designer Dragon) on this:
"Dr Cat's Stamp Collecting Dilemma
"Lots of people might like stamp collecting in your virtual world. But those who do will never play with those who like other features. Should you have stamp collecting in your world?" We know that there are a wide range of features that people find enjoyable in online worlds. We also know that some of these features are in conflict with one another. Given the above, we don't yet know if it is possible to have a successful world that incorporates all the features, or whether the design must choose to exclude some of them in order to keep the players happy."
Let's count ourselves lucky that this game even has non-combat professions aside from the conventional crafting classes. I'm all for better mind buffs and /focus commands, and the other professional enhancements we have asked for. But the thought of a dancer in a flesh wrap wriggling around her groupmates while they zurg a scyk lair makes me feel silly
I agree. The Entertainer and its Elite professions are social professions. Not everything needs to be about combat. Tailors bring nothing to PvP or PvE combat, but so what? You don't see huge threads on the tailor boards complaining about their uselessness in combat. They understand it, and if they want to shoot things, they learn Novice Marksman or Brawler like everyone else. There's no reason you can't be both a Dancer and a combat profession. The bonuses to defense at Master Dancer are nice, but honestly, I'm not a Dancer because of them, and if they vanished, I wouldn't care.
Oh, and I've zurged a scyk lair INmy sky-bluefleshwrap, because I was on my way from home to the Cantina, and it was inthe way (stupid lizards, would have left them alone if they hadn't attacked me). I've also saved novice marksmen from overkreetles while wearing bright red small bustier, hot pants, and dress slippers, with "Novice Dancer" hanging over my head. Fortunately, they appreciated the irony of the situation.
Kae
Sinda,
I would be more apt to agree with you if there was content on the non-combat side. There isn't unless you create it yourself. Pretty much all of the quests etc are combat oriented. It is not as though there are ono-violent roles in the galactic conflict wither. Anyone has the choice of completely shutting out that part of the game by ignoring it. I am arguing that that should not be anforegone conseqence of being an entertainer. If you want to entertain, I do not think that decision should basically handicap participation in such content as the game currently affords.
The idea of having a second character would have more appeal if not for the limit of one character per server. If you want to remain with the people you know, you need a second account. I have not fully satisfied myself that it is worth retaining one.As for feeing lucky, I agree that having non combat professions is a great idea. In some ways however creating one where there are not noncombat paths to participating in game content makes usthe underclass citizens in the Star Wars universe.
BTW I noted the defense add from master dancer. And no I do not think it comes near to offsetting even the 14 skill points required to completeextra lines in entertainer or the 106 skill points you give up to master dance. 14 points would almost suffice to acquire a basic skill or to fill in one full line in a sideprofession. Having the dance line afford some skill that acombat group would prize would not compel anyone to take part in non-entertainment activities. It would just allow those who want some access to other parts of the game to have it without sacrificing dance.
The Devs have said several times and from the beginning they do not want the Dancer class or Musician to be anything like the Bards etc. of other games that had a combat role. They are a non combat class and they've made it rather clear that won't be changing. So if your holding out hoping that they'll make some change to make Dancers more helpful in combat then I'd just move on because its not going to happen.
My best suggestion is that if you want to particpate in combat then put the extra 144 points you have left after mastering dancer into one of the many combat professions. Its really the only way to do it. If you do what I did and become a Master Dancer/ Master Musician/ Master Entertainer and have no points left to spare then theres really no point complaining, hehe. Its just the choice you make.
To repeat, like it or not (and believe me, I think it would be cool personally) the dancer profession will never have a role in combat.
Oh, and I've zurged a scyk lair IN my sky-blue fleshwrap, because I was on my way from home to the Cantina, and it was in the way (stupid lizards, would have left them alone if they hadn't attacked me). I've also saved novice marksmen from overkreetles while wearing bright red small bustier, hot pants, and dress slippers, with "Novice Dancer" hanging over my head. Fortunately, they appreciated the irony of the situation
LOL! I know the feeling. Last night I was in a full formal gown, on my way to a party where I was engaged to dance. I couldn't help but stop on the way to smack a few scyks and Swoopers around. Only thing was, I started dancing and still had my Knucklers on
"Stop waving that thing around in the air, you'll put somebody's eye out!"
Ravenmist,
Iam sure that you are correct that the developers will not provide a role for dancers or entertainers generally.It also seems apparent that they will not be introducing non-combat content either.Indeed, I am beginning toquestion whether they are so far not even equal to making the game function, much less enhancing it. Unfortunately,this represents a conscious decision to exclude entertainers from significant participation in the game except through a second profession. It is not as though you have some option of getting through Jabba's palace, doing the Jedi academy quests or doing the other paths in teh game available to combat characters otherwise. I suppose that it is comforting to know that developers hold us in as much contempt as our fellow players. At least we are capable of creating unanimity.
Hi, Sinda.
I've done that, actually. I've met with Jinna and Tekaru on Naritus, both Master Tailors and very helpful. Infiltration suit, belts, boots, gloves, hot pants, jackets, vests, bikini leggings, multiple skirts....I'm trying it all, trust me. ^.^ Too many items I'd like to wear are female only, so it's kinda eh.
As for cloaks, dusters...well, cloaks look absolutely horrid on my guy. He's so small, and the bloody things envelope him. Not to mention articles like that collide with my body/pants and my guys rear or legs show through the back during some flourishes. The same problem with long skirts,smocks, and robes too 
The legs collide with the robe, and you see an empty boot protruding from the robes(I use a Robe of Honor, Administrators Robe, or Smock at times..mostly for music playing now), and it looks odd. If anything, they should fix those collision issues so it doesn't look so weird.
Coupled dancing was one I forgot but would love to see.
And I also dance with a staff. But recently mine vanished, and I'm looking for an inexpensive two-handed cleaver...... 
Thanks for your suggestions and all, though.I've definately been there and tried lots of things.
But hey, is it so wrong to want to see my dancer going around in an exquisite gown? ^.^ ....don't answer that.
Ilooli wrote:
Ravenmist,
Iam sure that you are correct that the developers will not provide a role for dancers or entertainers generally.It also seems apparent that they will not be introducing non-combat content either.Indeed, I am beginning toquestion whether they are so far not even equal to making the game function, much less enhancing it. Unfortunately,this represents a conscious decision to exclude entertainers from significant participation in the game except through a second profession. It is not as though you have some option of getting through Jabba's palace, doing the Jedi academy quests or doing the other paths in teh game available to combat characters otherwise. I suppose that it is comforting to know that developers hold us in as much contempt as our fellow players. At least we are capable of creating unanimity.
I'm not so pessimistic, myself. I think the SOE Devs will either get the game fixed or they'll be replaced like Funcom's Devs, and they know it. From what I've heard so far they have some interesting ideas for enhancements for non-combat roles, and I expect that if this board (and the musicians) can come up with practical, exciting ideas they would consider ways to implement them.
How about this? You mentioned Jabba's palace. How about if there were a quest path entertainers could follow that would eventually allow them to perform in Jabba's main room? None of it would involve combat, but you would have to gain Jabba faction by doing entertainment tasks for his minions. Thoughts?