Dancer Archive
Thread: Do we DESERVE tips?
I dance and I heal. Therefor I DESERVE X amount of tips.
Maybe its just me, but I find that idea Anathema to the concept of a Marketplace and Free Will.
I'm providing a Service. I do it to meet a Demand. If I provide a GOOD service, I will be rewarded commensurate with the Value of the service I provide. No more, no less. I don't set the value of that Service. The people buying it do.
If I want MORE or LARGER tips then its up to ME to work to provide a service of Higher value. NOT to simply Demand a higher value.
There will ALWAYS be some dancer who stands in a corner dancing AFK from which the guys can heal. So I have to compete with that. I have to provide enough and better service to make the Consumers want to notice ME so that I receive the tips.
The day we end up with a some arbitrarily Fixed payment for dancing decided by someone who is NOT a dancer is the day I give up dancing and become a dockworker or hunter.
If my WORK has no value then I either starve or find a new line of work. If the Quality of my work become meaningless because someone makes an arbitrary judgement of its worth so that I get payed the same as the AFk Corner dancer then WHY should I work at all? Why make ANY effort if your rewards are not dependent on you work?
See that problem?
I could not agree more! At first I thought the tip system was flawed - I was in a newbie town and wasn't making much. After reading all Flawed Diamond's posts, and following her advice, my tips grew exponentially.
Some dancers just stand there. I've worked hard to develop macros that present the flourishes in a fashion that provides an interesting and artistic dance, I engage the customers in interesting banter - never use the canned stuff, it's awful - and try to provide genuine entertainment. I'm not interested in splitting tips w/ people who don't work for them. Of course, I never charge for training other dancers and refuse tips for training (I'm fairly high level now).
What hurts us, no matter how hard we try, is when when some dancer in her underwear aggressively hits on the customers - makes us all look bad. As FlawedDiamond has inferred, class is a tip magnet - tawdry is not. Also, whenthe dance floor gets cluttered with Image Designers doing business they could do on the sidelines - spoils the effect of what we're doing.Finally, people who aggressively ask for tips end up offending the customers. If we mention tips, it needs to be done in an Informational manner, not as effectively begging.
That's my 2 cents worth anyway.
Thanks for all the good advice on success in dancing, Flawed - you've made me a better dancer and made SWG a lot more fun for me and - I suspect - a lot of others. Wish I was on your server so I could meet you.
Jennifer Wrote:
What hurts us, no matter how hard we try, is when when some dancer in her underwear aggressively hits on the customers - makes us all look bad. As FlawedDiamond has inferred, class is a tip magnet - tawdry is not. Also, whenthe dance floor gets cluttered with Image Designers doing business they could do on the sidelines - spoils the effect of what we're doing.Finally, people who aggressively ask for tips end up offending the customers. If we mention tips, it needs to be done in an Informational manner, not as effectively begging.
I have huge issues with what I call 'bra dancers'. It drives me insane. It's a me thing, and it may be haughty or whatever else, but I can live with that. <g> Me? I am a bit of a wardrober.. >koff< (anyone from SS says a word ...), so I tend to offer clothes to those still in any piece of noob gear, or dancing in bra and panties. I just think that it is extremely unprofessional to have dancers in their underwear. A variety of wardrobes is AWESOME - I have been wearing my new wrap lately, or sometimes the bikini with a skirt or what have you, but think that the girls in shorts or a long skirt can look just as nice. I don't care WHAT you're wearing, so long as you're wearing SOMETHING.
/rantoff hehe
One point though - IDs don't have a choice but to 'clutter' the area in some cases. Unless the person they are practicing upon is standing on the fringes, there is a distance limit to that skill, so sometimes, though it might be in the way during a busy time, they have no choice but to be there. Doesn't bother me in the least, mostly because there will always be customers who are trying to help heal, or get closer to their favorite entertainer who do the same thing <g>
I have exactly two macros for speech. The first is a rather generic welcome message, that also mentions that people can help out their favorite entertainers with /applaud and /cheer - I've found that it actually does help, but I only use it at times when the cantina is overwhelmingly busy, or when I'm involved in multiple customer interactions. Secondarily, I have a short comment that tips and heals are appreciated, but not expected, or something of that nature. I pull that one out only if the cantina is very full, and no one seems to be pulling ANYTHING in (ie, there are no thank yous going on, I'm not getting tipped, etc) The key, I think, is moderation, and tact. 
FlawedDiamond,
You have some misunderstandings about economics and the free market. You are offering a public good, thus are not in the free market. In a freemarket, producers supply goods based on the average cost of the good, not on what the consumer is willing to pay for the good. If a consumer is not willing to buy at the producer price, they don't buy it. If another producer can produce the same good for cheaper, they will get the sales and revenue over the more expensive producer. If you as a dancer can provide a better dance than others, you might be rewarded with a tip, but the customer is in no way obligated to tip, and receives no more benefit from your dance if he chooses not to. As a public good everyone receives the same benefit, and there is no direct payment for a public good. In this way, you have accepted the free rider problem, where people benefit without having to pay the cost.
I would like to see the ability to target dances to individuals or groups, so that they receive a MUCH greater benefit from the dance. Lap dances must be more fun that watching the stage. This way dancers can charge for lapdances and provide a differentiated service.
Mal
I've noticed that the higher your dance/music skill, and the better dances/songs you have (good clothes don't hurt either) the better tips you will get. Perhaps part of that is that most of the more skilled entertainers have been in the same cantina for a long time and are recognized by the patrons, but I know that some of it is just that people respect you more.
I've been playing nalargon now for a day and a half or so (master musician instrument) and have been getting 500+ cr tips hand over fist, even when I'm standing there talking to someone in /tells. In this case, most people make comments to the fact that they are rewarding all the time I've spent standing around mashing keys to heal them. 
So I think talking people up and having a great personality is a good start. If you are a new entertainer though, don't be discouraged if that doesn't get you a ton of tips right away, becauseit will eventually.
Sorry, I didn't know what else to say, but I got an image of undie dancers in my head when he said that so I passed the buck to them... lol
One point though - IDs don't have a choice but to 'clutter' the area in some cases. Unless the person they are practicing upon is standing on the fringes, there is a distance limit to that skill, so sometimes, though it might be in the way during a busy time, they have no choice but to be there. Doesn't bother me in the least, mostly because there will always be customers who are trying to help heal, or get closer to their favorite entertainer who do the same thing <g>
That's a good point, but when they stand in the middle of the dance floor and gather their customers around - and then spam advertising, it obscures both the band and the dancers. I've actually have IDs complain when I glide through them when doing a dance such as Formal. I think it's discourteous and diminishes our performance. It's especially annoying when we do group dances in a line and people can't see us. That's all.
Lol Hijo, now you know it
Just this morning I stood at a shuttleboard, as guy came along and sad: "do you need money?"
I saw before my inner eyes his slimy grin (shudder)
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Aniella (Gorath)
I see nothing wrong with a dancer flirting with customers to get tips. It is the purpose for some of us to roleplay our characters, to give them personality and life beyond the standard "How's the weather?" talk. If it makes the other entertainers look bad, then perhaps they need to interact with the customers more. I've seen many different succesfull dancers go about it in different ways, but the key is in taking on a personality, interacting with people and showing an interest in the people around you. I want everyone who walks in to forget that the Cantina is a place you "have to" go sit and be bored waiting for BF to go away. I want them to have a good time, meet some new faces and be another aspect of the game that brings enjoyment.
Malleable wrote:FlawedDiamond,
You have some misunderstandings about economics and the free market. You are offering a public good, thus are not in the free market.
Mal
Quite the opposite. When there is a room full of dancers and an individual watching he is Free to choose to tip or not to tip. If the DOES decide to tip then he must make a choice as to WHICH dancer to tip. I suppose he could simpyl make a random choice and if all the dancers are standing shuffling mindlessly afk then that as good a way as any.
But if I'm in a room full of the mindless dancers then I'm going to work to offer him a reason to tip ME and not just anyone. I'm going to Compete with those others in the hopes that he will find MY services of more value than he find that of the others.
Competition of Services for a Finite supply of Money
Thats pretty darned close to a free markey. Close enough for me anyway.
And I am NOT offerring a PUBLIC good. I am providing Healing and Entertainment services. I get paid ONLY if a customer feels that the Service I PERSONALLY provide is of greater Value to him than that of the girl next to me.
If I find that I am not ABLE to provide a service of high enough Value to meet my income needs then I simply need to find another Profession. NOT complain that OTHERs don't Value me highly enough to give me what I WANT but have not earned.
I do NOT engage in Backroom Dancing. Why? Again Value.
The COST of that service to me (My self respect) is of GREATER value to ME than any amount of money that a Customer could offer. Therefore to do so would be to provide a Service at a LOSS. Simple economics of morality.
Dancing is a service. A lot of people don't understand service pricing because it doesn't take many (if any) resources. You are healing mind wounds and removing battle fatigue. This is absolutely the only way to remove battle fatigue. Therefore the service is critical to every fighter around. (Mind wounds can be removed in houses/camps by just sitting around).
So do we deserve tips? Compare it to the travel industry.
Now some people are the discount entertainers (novices). They take forever to heal. This is your bus or train transportation. The price of this service is incredibly low. But there is still a price.
Now, another person is a permium entertainer (master dancer). They heal you up really fast. People says "WOW" that was fast. This is the concorde jet. People shelled out big bucks to fly from Europe to NY in half the normal amount of time. Yes, they could have gotten the same service by another airline at a fraction of the cost, but they choose the Fastest service available.
Its simple, we provide a valuable, NECESSARY service, we get PAID.