Dancer Archive

That was clearly harrassment.

If you ask once for them to stop or give any indication that the attention is not wanted any further attempts ARE harrassment. You should report them and take a screenshot of the conversation.

Sexual harrassment is unacceptable in any shape or form in any location real life or game.

That is harrassment, Report it also "/log" when he comes in so you can have something to send to CSR to show what he was doing. It will show up in your SWG file as your char name .log

This was blatant harrasment, period.

Anytime you tell someone they are making you unconfortable and ask them to stop...and they don't...well it is knowing, intentional harrassment.

REPORT THEM EVERY TIME!

That is the only way they will ever learn...

If it had been me, I would have told he to get lost the moment he first asked me to take my clothes off. I would not have danced for him after that for any amount of money at all. My primary profession is as a medic and I am the same way in the hospital. I do not like to have to refuse care to someone, and almost never do...but once or twice there was a person there being so blatantly offensive and so horribly rude that I simply told them out loud that they would recieve no healing from me unless they stopped. Instead, they challenged me to a duel...challenged their doctor to a duel! Geez! Well, I let the entire hospital know he challenged me and they all told him how low that was and he left.

Don't ever let such people get away with acting that way. There must be repercussions or they will be encourage to do it again and again, and again.

Always report them...

Mekora Ze'Kall

Medical professional

Kettemoor Galaxy

There's some cognitive dissonance at work here. Likeet I understand what you described. I see it every time I play.

But from MY point of view:

We're Roleplaying in what is a pretty primitive society, culturally. Much like the American Old West. Many of the places pictured in the Star Wars movies and reproduced here are NOT places you would take your chldren. It's a society that still practices slavery. Where women can be held as property, e.g. Jabba's place. I see people often RPing a background of escaping from slavery. Many of the people are RPing some pretty rough and lowlife characters and represent the segment of society that even in a generous fashion would be called Scum.

We are surrounded by Smugglers and Bounty Hunter and yet people are upset by ...Sexual Harassment.

When I encounter this kind of thing I normally get upset in-game. I make a scene. I call on the Gentlemen to do something about the situation and if All else fails I leave and find a better place to dance. In my own Cantina we keep things pretty low key and don't tolerate misbehavior.

If we applied all of the US Sexual Harassment Statutes to SWG we might as well just shut it down now or else redesign all the professions to things like Accountant, Store Clerk, Affirmitive Action Counselor, Office Worker, Therapist and so on. Maybe we should have the EEOC go do an inspection of Jabba's place to ensure that it does not have a Hostile Work Environment for women.

If SWG turns into a place where everytime a guy walks up to a female Char in a Cantina he's got to start wondering "Gee What can I say that suits my Char but is NOT sexual Harassment?" then we might as well pack it in now. When I see the Guys at Mos Eisely or Theed start saying "Hello Ms Diamond. How are you today?" then I know it's time to leave for good and go read a book.

Dear the more I think about it I wonder if SWG is a good game for you. You might be more pleased with something else like UO or Sim Online.

It is clearly sexual harrasment. RPing or not RPing the guy was clearly inappropriate. You told him "No" and "To Stop" and he continued, which along the SOE guidelines, it makes it harrasment. FlawedDiamond, I am having a hard time seeing your point of view and how it is justified. If someone did that to me while I was playing, I would have reported it immediately.

I imagine you read my post on the other thread by now Likeet so I won't repeat myself. In addition the comments made above I personally feel you have to take a lot of it in your stride and let it go over your head. It is your character.. not you. As soon as they start talking about your husband you need to stay in character (if you rp) and most will get bored and leave. For those that don't, everything you did is fine. He knew he had over-stepped the mark by apologising to you, to come back and do it again is clearly out of order.

As for 'at what point is it considered sexual harrassment?' - when you personally feel abused. I personally have a high tolerance level for such things (probably from years of gaming). If it upsets you in real life then take a break from it. Although I hate to say it, FlawedDiamond may have a point about whether or not this is the right game for you.

If this particular person was a one off and you don't get too much of this and can handle it, then I hope you continue to enjoy dancing. If not then perhaps change profession to musician or something completely different? I hope you are feeling better about things today and that they have not forever ruined your enjoyment of what will become a great game.

K'vera Leann.

At what point is it sexual harrassment. I definately have to say what that guy did to you was harrassment. And just because this is a game doesn't mean anyone has to take it. Your character isn't a slave so that comparison to Jaba's girls is bogus. In a real bar you'd have a bouncer or someone who could take care of the jerk for you. That doesn't work here, the crowd can express their displeasure but some just enjoy that more.

The way I see it.. if some guy comes up and says, hey Babe, take your top off, I'll tip you 20 credits. Or, hey, can I get a lap dance? Or even, show me your **edit**! Thats fine. But if you tell him no and tell him you wont do that, if they keep pressing the issue.. I'd even let them get away with a second attempt. But if you tell them very seriously to stop and leave you alone and they won't. Thats harrassment, no if ands or buts about it. Your playing a game, that doesn't mean you have to take that kind of crap.

RP or no RP.. Putting up with it isn't RP either, that person would be taken care of by the house by a bouncer or someone else. They wouldn't just be allowed to continue harrassing you unless it was a total dive and the owner was a louse. A good owner would take care of his performers. So think of the CR's as your bouncers, someone pushes it too far, you let them take care of it.

I've seen a lot of crazy **edit** in the Cantina's so far, never reported anything but have had to scare off a few people. Some people just don't take a hint tho and are real assholes, sometimes CR's will be the only way to take care of them. Use the CR's rarely, don't cry to one every time someone says something crude to you. If you do that then they'll stop taking us seriously. But if someone is really harrassing you, don't put up with it. Its lousy RP to let them get away with it and nobody should have to tolerate that, game or no.

If you asked him to stop, and he persisted, that is harassment.

The SW universe may have aspects that many civilizations in this day and age consider barbaric or unlawful, like slavery, but that doesn't change the fact that we are subscribers to a service -- a privately-run playground, if you will -- and we all have to conduct ourselves in a mature and respectful manner. The rules of conduct that everyone agrees to when they accept the EULA make that pretty clear.

I'm very sorry, but "roleplaying" doesn'tgrant carte blanche for doing or saying whatever the heck you want. There are plenty of ways to roleplay a cad or a lecher without crossing over the line. If nothing else, a private tell to say "You are making me uncomfortable, please stop" should be enough to let someone know they need to back off.

There is a distinct difference between a guy getting a little carried away --it happens -- and a guy acting out an intrusive fantasy on an unsuspecting individual, in this case you. Sometimes people forget that there is a real live person on the other end of the keyboard, and when they do, they need to be reminded, preferably as quickly as possible, or else they are just going to continue to behave that way to others.

No question whatsoever it was harrassment. You made it very clear you weren't that kind of dancer and it wasn't welcome. I have no problem with flirting in game and honestly I don't care if someone wants to do "private dances", but this was obviously way out of line. Even from the start. 20 creds to take off your shirt? Come on. Have some class.

"We're Roleplaying in what is a pretty primitive society" -- Perhaps you are. What are you? Some hickfroma hellhole like Tatoine? Let me assure you, Naboo is not a primitive society. We are a culture among the most advanced in the galaxy. (Sorry but roleplaying doesn't provide an excuse for harrassment. It might provide an excuse for the crude initial come on; it doesn't for continuing it when she obviously said no OOC)

Karai Li'ig
Dancer & Medic
Theed Starsider

Diamond,

With a name like this one person had, he was clearly not a role player unless they had "leet D3WdZ" back then.

So then what is the argument for it being okin a "non role playing perspective".

I amlooselyrole playing with this charater right now. I can when I cross one, but they are'e RP'ing they I don't need to unless I choose to so there was not role playing involved here.

____

To a certain extent I can handle alot, and I can take alot of things in online gaming. When I've had enough and put my foot down and say No in a clear way then the line has been drawn. That is when people need to say ok she said no so we know we can't do that.

As to who ever addressed the "but he came back to apologize"

Also him coming back to apologize.... He very easily could have just been reamed by a CSR andtold that if it continued the account would be closed. The one I spoke with said that it would be addresses right away so that could very easily have been in fear and he felt apologizing would make it better.

I would havebelieved himand takenthat as a serious apology if themoron in questionwouldn't have come back later and started in again knowing full well that I didn't tolerate it and said the same exact things as before and as soon as I said I would report him a second time if he didn't stop then said "no no no don't do that I really didn't mean it, I'm really sorry, I'll get in deep trouble, please don't report me again but can I lick you "there" before I go".

If he had apologised and stopped that is one thing. But to go on is not on, I'd have reported him too

I'm NOT saying, and never have, that I condone that kind of behavior. But there is an inherent problem here.

I think there is a grey area between RPing and Sexual Harassment and that line ends up being defined sometimes in such a way as to be meaningless. What offends ONE person may be acceptable to many others.

Do we set the parameters of the behavior of everyone by the standards of the person most easily offended? In that case we play a pretty bland, artificial vanilla game prolly not worth bothering with.

Do we set them by the standards of the person who finds little or nothing offensive? In that case it's Katy Bar the Door, plug up you ears and put the filter on HIGH.

If we have a totally subjective standard that varies form one person to the next then what guidelines do you use? Do you walk up and ask EACH person "Excuse me but on a scale of 1-10 what is you offendability Rating?"

When you don't KNOW the parameters how do you decide what you are permitted to say and not say?

It reminds me of the dilemna I've heard some guys describe. When you pick a modern girl up for a date do you:

1. Open the car door for her and take a chance of offending her if she is a Feminist?
2. NOT open the car door and take a chane of offending her if she is a Traditionalist?

When the stated rules are so vague as to be meaningless and the rules CHANGE with every person AND there is no way of know beforehand what each person's rules are...... what do you do?

I am curious.

Tonight I was approached by a male. He asked me if I danced and followed me to the cantina.

We got in there, and he told me to remove my shirt for a tip of 20 credits. I refused and said I was a married woman and didn't dance that way.

He then questioned if my husband was watching me play and what not. I never answered.

From there he offered me 300 to go naked. I told him that offer wasn't worth a divorce. He upped the anty to 400 credits. He then said to just dance.

I was in a full flowing gown and he asked what else I had to wear so I told him I would wear pair of shorts and top and that was as close to naked as I cared to get.

I accidentally stopped while changing and he sat down in front of me saying you have a nice _________ and I want to __________ your __________. May I _____________________-.

At point I was in shock and hubby was less than pleased.

I should have seen it coming and didn't. I couldn't figure out how to report this so I logged out and went into chat and a CSR there asked me to e-mail him the info as the in game system was down. This was right before 9:00 pm.

The guy came back and tried to apologize about 20 or so minutes later. I had him on ignore but asked him to leave as he made me uncomfortable. He emoted he was sorry and left a few minutes later after I kept asking/telling him to leave he did.

He just came back, and started all over again with the same lines knowing it was me and I wouldn't fall for it. This time I wasn't alone in there and my friends all started letting him know he wasn't welcome there if he couldn't and wouldn't take no for an answer.

___

Now at what point would you people "blow it off" and say "awww let him have his fun" or "report him right away".

I am curious because I got mixed /tells tonight with "don't report him the game is new let him have his fun of trying" to " I'm reporting this because seeing him not take no for an answer offends me since I had to see it"

What would you do in this situation and why?

Would you be upset? Why/why not?

I must now got scrub down my body in bleach... I feel filthy and dirty after this situation not once but twice tonight.

I want to see if I'm the only one out there that feels "no means no no matter if it's a game or not".

I'm open to discussion on this but lets not flame others please for how they feel here, it's a touchy (excuse the pun there) subject for some people me especially since I'm pretty rattled tonight. hehe