Dancer Archive
Thread: a question from a non-Dancer/Musician/Entertainer
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onetruegandalf
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:17 pm
#1
I'm not trying to start a fight here but i would like an honest opinion from the community affected so here goes. What do you think is a fair price (i don't consider it a tip--i'm paying for a service) for a set of mind buffs?
I ask because recently I saw the spam of an AFK buffbot essentially demanding 10-15k for primary/secondary buffs. The spam said something about "you would pay that much for a doc buff". I take issue with this on multiple levels.
1) Docs have to use resources. in some cases some very expensive resources.
2) Your buffs aren't as strong as a doctors. I get a mind buff and take down 2 hits of brandy and the mind buff still doesn't equal what i get from a doc.
3) Your buffs don't last as long. 2 Hours on a mind buff, 3.5 hours for a doc.
4) She was AFK buffing. Except for a rare few docs are ATK buffing. that's gotta count for something.
Now, I KNOW all of you know all of this (i'm semi-venting here). What I'm asking, and i really want to know, is what you as a community HONESTLY feel is a fair price for mind buffs. I'm not asking because i'm a cheap SOB, i generally tip very well.
Also, I realize it takes a heck of a lot longer to get master musician/dancer than it does doc. i alse realize that entertainers get the shaft frequently on getting paid.
thanks for listening and really do appreciate what you do for the SWG community.
I ask because recently I saw the spam of an AFK buffbot essentially demanding 10-15k for primary/secondary buffs. The spam said something about "you would pay that much for a doc buff". I take issue with this on multiple levels.
1) Docs have to use resources. in some cases some very expensive resources.
2) Your buffs aren't as strong as a doctors. I get a mind buff and take down 2 hits of brandy and the mind buff still doesn't equal what i get from a doc.
3) Your buffs don't last as long. 2 Hours on a mind buff, 3.5 hours for a doc.
4) She was AFK buffing. Except for a rare few docs are ATK buffing. that's gotta count for something.
Now, I KNOW all of you know all of this (i'm semi-venting here). What I'm asking, and i really want to know, is what you as a community HONESTLY feel is a fair price for mind buffs. I'm not asking because i'm a cheap SOB, i generally tip very well.
Also, I realize it takes a heck of a lot longer to get master musician/dancer than it does doc. i alse realize that entertainers get the shaft frequently on getting paid.
thanks for listening and really do appreciate what you do for the SWG community.
Esharra
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:59 pm
#2
If you go to a live entertainer for buffs, you'll find that most of us when asked, will suggest you pay whatever you feel is appropriate. I have a couple of long-time patrons who pay me rediculous amounts & will never let me return thetip (occassionally I get them gifts in return 
) but they are horribly rich so I don't feel too much guilt. On the other hand, almost daily I meet someone who is getting his/her first buff and hasn't more than a few k credits. Even if they only tip 500 cr, I thank them as though it were 500k.I think 5k per buff is acceptable and about average of what I get paid by those who are casual customers, as opposed to the long-term ones.
) but they are horribly rich so I don't feel too much guilt. On the other hand, almost daily I meet someone who is getting his/her first buff and hasn't more than a few k credits. Even if they only tip 500 cr, I thank them as though it were 500k.I think 5k per buff is acceptable and about average of what I get paid by those who are casual customers, as opposed to the long-term ones.You'll find that most of us here aren't buff bots and we really don't care if you stiff the bots. Frankly, if you insist on using a bot instead of a live entertainer, I'd prefer you didn't pay them anything at all.Keep in mind, those of us who are at the keyboard to buff you are providing that service because it is our only means of making a substantial income. Our expense is not only the time and effort to master our professions but also the time that we are in the cantina available for you & buffing you rather than on a flat bit of grass somewhere practicing a routine with friends.For the most part, we entertain because it is fun. Buff bots are in it for one purpose..to get your credits. Which would you rather be supporting..their greed or our fun?
now I don't have to type it, yay 
Cendatinea
Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:10 pm
#4
Ok, I am only speaking based on my own opinion. For the record, I am a Master Dancer/Master Musician/Master Entertainer and no, I am not, nor have I ever been a buffbot. Yes, I give both sets of buffs, but I have never given a buff while AFK, not once.
That said...
1) Docs have to use resources. in some cases some very expensive resources.
Anyone who thinks an entertainer can waltz into a cantina and just pass out a mind buff is kidding his/herself. In order to give that buff in 5 or less minutes (which is what most of us do, the alternative being 10 minutes dancing and 10 minutes playing music) we have to spam our flourishes at a rate of 5flourishes every 8 seconds. Flourishes eat our action bars like it's goin' outta style.
So how do we get around that, simple. We either A) drink Accarrgam (like brandy for the action bar) or B) get a quickness buff from a doc. Both of these things cost money. I don't know about other servers, but the average crate of Accarrgam on Kettemoor goes for about 100-150k per crate. Docs, thankfully, tend to pass out quickness buffs for free for entertainers, or at a cost of 1-5k, depending on the doc. That is...if you can find a doc nearby.
Now, given the dismal tips entertainers generally receive, and the fact that those of us who spend our time entertaining don't generally get to go do combat missions, we're looking to stand in considerably more financial dire straits than others. The cost vs. profit ratio for entertainers makes Accarrgam and Quickness buffs a hefty sum to pay for something we sometimes don't get tipped for very well.
2) Your buffs aren't as strong as a doctors. I get a mind buff and take down 2 hits of brandy and the mind buff still doesn't equal what i get from a doc.
This is not our fault, is the game mechanics, and it's not exactly fair to hold against us. A doctor can experiment for better buffs, our only option is acquiring skill tapes. Have you seen the prices of those at auction? Yeah. You tell me we can afford those.
3) Your buffs don't last as long. 2 Hours on a mind buff, 3.5 hours for a doc.
Refer to #2.
4) She was AFK buffing. Except for a rare few docs are ATK buffing. that's gotta count for something.
This is the only one with which I stand on your side. Sure, AFK bots "provide a service" when others are not around to give a live buff. How many people do you know that actually walk past the bot to take the extra moment or two to find the live ent deeper in the cantina? I can't count the number of times I have been in the cantina and heard people using the bots while I, a Master in Dance and Music, am waiting to provide the same service and throw in a personality on top of that.
Ok, the bots would kill me for sayin this, but I would say bots' tips should be equal to the effort they put into their "service." That is, they took the time to log on, set the macro, get their Accarrgam or Quickness set up, and let it go. In other words: minimal at best. If you're going to a live entertainer though, consider the amount of effort being put into the service being provided.
Now, ok, so you're thinking "well then, its cheaper to use a bot." Therein lies the rub. Most live dancers and musicians I know are live for a reason: they enjoybeing an entertainer. What does this mean? Well, I can't speak for all, but I know I have never required a tip or fee for giving mind enhancements. Sure, I get tipped and I say thank you and I genuinely appreciate it. It's nice to be recognized for the service I provide, but I don't require it, nor do I ask for it. When asked "what do I owe you?" my response is always "whatever you think is fair."
I hope that answers your question, or at least gives you one live buffer's opinions.
Tralmek
Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:22 pm
#5
Buff prices are very personal things. People charge a wide range of fees for buffs, some nothing, some upwards of 50k. As Esharra said, many live Entertainers will ask our customers to pay what they think the buff is worth.
I had issues with all of your points except for # 4.
1-3 can be answered this way: Master Dancers and Master Musicians expend the most valuable resource of all in order to earn and refineour abilities. We spend hours upon hours of our time doing this, and that is more costly than anything--we give a hugepiece of ourselves and our lives to our patrons. Are we any less deserving of earningcredits than a master Teras Kasi Artist or other master of any other profession that requires the same number of skillpoints to master? Of course not. Unfortunately, game mechanics do not allow us to have abilities equal in powerto Doctors, nor do they give us a concrete opportunity to earn credits outside of the goodwill of other players(doc buffs are just such a thing, because it's easier to point to the resources they use).
Number 4, I have no problem withwhatsoever.A bothas no time invested in its "skill"development, no resources required for its operation. It simply occupies space and spams, creating problems for live Entertainers and lag for everyone. Therefore, it is not worthy of a tip.
/shrug
It's my opinion. Feel free to take it: use it, lose it, orabuse it as you see fit.
onetruegandalf
Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:23 am
#6
thanks for answering so quickly.
i would LOVE to always go to an ATK entertainer. when i'm looking for healing i always ask who is actually there and that is where my credits go. but it seems that ATK buffers are a rare breed.
and i'm sorry but i didn't consider the buff/accaragem thing--great point
i generally tip 8k for a 2 hour mind buff. if you are ATK and the conversation is good i'll double it. i don't mind paying the credits but deep down inside i just have issue with someone demanding as much for a mind buff as a doctor does for med buffs. i'm sorry.
i do think Entertainers are a great part of the game. i love the idea of my med buff being reduced if i haven't seen an entertainer.
i would LOVE to always go to an ATK entertainer. when i'm looking for healing i always ask who is actually there and that is where my credits go. but it seems that ATK buffers are a rare breed.
and i'm sorry but i didn't consider the buff/accaragem thing--great point
i generally tip 8k for a 2 hour mind buff. if you are ATK and the conversation is good i'll double it. i don't mind paying the credits but deep down inside i just have issue with someone demanding as much for a mind buff as a doctor does for med buffs. i'm sorry.
i do think Entertainers are a great part of the game. i love the idea of my med buff being reduced if i haven't seen an entertainer.
TweekTweek
Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:58 am
#7
5k is a fair price for a mind buff. Doesn't matter is they are AFk or ATK. Tip the dancer. Dancers are one of the most abused professions. You pay for any other service in game. Why would you not tip a dancer who is paying 15 bucks a month to heal your BF, mind wounds and buff you for 2 hours.
Aynianu
Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:06 am
#8
Were entertainers, id prefer to be tipped based on how 'entertained' the customers are, plus time im spending at the keyboard dancing counts for something also.
Panthu
Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:42 am
#9
TweekTweek wrote:
Why would you not tip a dancer who is paying 15 bucks a month to heal your BF, mind wounds and buff you for 2 hours.
Uh, maybe because you don't have to? Come on, that's pretty clear. It's also pretty easy to understand why we are so "abused" with a set up that gives us almost no control.
TweekTweek
Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:53 am
#11
Panthu wrote:
TweekTweek wrote:
Why would you not tip a dancer who is paying 15 bucks a month to heal your BF, mind wounds and buff you for 2 hours.
Uh, maybe because you don't have to? Come on, that's pretty clear. It's also pretty easy to understand why we are so "abused" with a set up that gives us almost no control.
Why are you being so aggresive and 1 starring all of my posts?.....*shrug*
I have never been to a forum that was angry and mean to new people who were just trying to contribute. I'm never going to come to this forum ever again. Do you think your negative replys actually help people?
Shaizann
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:02 am
#12
I'm a Master Musician, but my personal standard for a buff payment is 6k. That is if I'm in the cantina and you come to me. Often I get more than this, and I'm glad for it. My favorite buff-related thing to do is to go out to a remote combat spot and buff. I've made good money and freinds doing this. Fore example, I went to buff a full group of guys on Endor outside the DWB and made 100k. For a full timeentertainer thats huge cash. I also had the chance to meet some new folks.
Ikewe
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:24 am
#13
The price I would "expect" for a mind buff will depend on a few factors:
1) Did I have to stop what I was doing to travel to them?
2) Is it a group? A single person? An overt rebel? A Jedi? A brand new player?
3) What is the server economy
Generally on my server, people tip 5K for a dancer or 5K for a musician. They choose that amount because our server's buff bots charge 10K for a dance andmusic buff combo. Not much thought went into determining that price. It was based on what doctor's were charging at the time that buff bots first started to appear.
If I travel to someone, it means I have stopped whatever I was doing to meet their immediate needs. For that I would expect to get paid more. The norm on my server is 10K (75K and up for a group)
If the person is Overt or a Jedi that I know then usually they are requesting my services fairly regulary. In those instances I actually do not expect them to pay everytime - although most of these people will "Ninjatip" because they greatly appreciate the service being provided.
Likemany live performers here, I rarely ask for a set fee. I prefer to just ask for tips. But that's easy for me to do because currently this is not my major source of income.
I would never pay/tip someone who was afk. That's my personal opinion and it's probably not a popular one but it's one I'll stand by until the rip my dancing shoes from my cold, dead, feet.
Also, as a side note to the poster who was new to the dancer forum, I can assure you that Panthu is not the person who one-starred your post. You'll notice a trend that anyone who responds in any manner to a post that uses the B-word will get a one star - regardless of content. You shouldn't take it personally. Consider it an honor.
Cheers,
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
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