Dancer Archive
Thread: a question from a non-Dancer/Musician/Entertainer
TweekTweek wrote:
Panthu wrote:
TweekTweek wrote:
Why would you not tip a dancer who is paying 15 bucks a month to heal your BF, mind wounds and buff you for 2 hours.
Uh, maybe because you don't have to? Come on, that's pretty clear. It's also pretty easy to understand why we are so "abused" with a set up that gives us almost no control.
Why are you being so aggresive and 1 starring all of my posts?.....*shrug*
I have never been to a forum that was angry and mean to new people who were just trying to contribute. I'm never going to come to this forum ever again. Do you think your negative replys actually help people?
I doubt that Panthu is one starring all of your posts. If she is, then I'd be really surprised. (and no, I'm not either) 
Also, I think the idea of someone paying 15 bucks a month out of the kindness of their heart to heal and buff the masses is a fallacy. When they bought that second account, it was primarily for their own benefit. The buffing/healing the masses thing is just a side benefit that makes the afk'er look good. The unfortunate thing is they don't realize how much they're hurting the people that actually want to play these professions. The bads outweigh the goods, and that's why people who want to play entertainers end up being aggressive to those who help to ruin our professions. And, that's why I never use an afk'er, nor would I ever tip one. I'm not going to reward someone who helps to ruin my profession.
Anyway...as for adequate payment. When I first started buffing, before the buffbots took over, I actually charged 10K just for the dance buff, and this was the long 10 minute buff. I know that seems outrageous these days. But, people actually had no problem with it. It was a supply and demand thing. It was a service that people wanted that I could provide. And, the market was able to bear it. Same reason why crystals and pearls and skill tapes go for exhorbitant amounts. I also didn't feel like I was trying to screw anybody over, because I never try to do that. It was the going rate at the time on my server and seemed normal. But, also, when people said they didn't have that kind of money, I always made exceptions and would do it for less or for free.
Of course, now it's completely different. Usually on the rare occasions that someone actually asks me for a buff, and they ask me how much, my standard response is, "Whatever you like, but most people tip around 5k." I used to not even say "whatever you like" because I don't like the idea of devaluing our services. I think we should be able to set the price for our services just like every other profession. But, I seem to be mellowing out more and more about it. And, I just"guide" them towards what I think is a fair price without forcing it on people. I'm just seeing where the game takes this, and have pretty much stopped fighting for our rights to make a living. And, really that's what it's about because a pure entertainer has no other way to make money. Our costs may be low. But, if you take into account a combat player's costs and how much money they can make. The profit margin is still much higher for the combat player. And, as others have said, quickness buffs and accaragm do cost us money in order to give 3 minute buffs, which I do now.
A good combat player, no matter how much he/she pays for armor, buffs, food, etc., can still make a lot of money and buy some high end items they desire. A good entertainer, except for the rare exception, can never afford the high end items that they desire, even with the low up front costs that we have.
Anyway, I think a fair price is probably 5k per buff. But, one key thing is, like with most professions, the more contacts you have, the lower the cost. For example, my buffs to my guild and friends are always free. And, Ioften get things I need, such as food, from friends and guildmembers for the cost of resources. So, probably, if you make more contacts/friends with live entertainers, you'll find your buff costs dropping. 
Esharra wrote:
You mentioned having problems finding a live entertainer to buff you. I got to know my best friend because he was looking for a reliable entertainer who would be willing to meet his Jedi in odd locations or tag along with his guild and buff them for pvp & hunts. Even now, months later, that I'm a member of the guild; the guys are very appreciative of me, make a fuss over me & pay me well..& they know by now that they don't have to..I adore my boys! Some of my best times in game have been when these crazy guys have dragged me off to places most would think a character with no combat has no business being. It is nice to get away from the cantinas sometimes & they seem to think I make the trip a little more fun. Here's some information that may give you ideas for how you can more easily find live entertainers on your server.
Five stars Esh. You reminded me how lucky I am to have a guild who will drag/protect my MID along on trips like that.
I don't know if your wife has to compete with a buffbot at the MO, but Kettemoor has some, which makes it much harder. But, as I said, "except for the rare exception." There are some entertainers who play live 100% that are able to make a very good living because they're very outgoing. I applaud them for that. But, it's the rare exception rather than the rule.
TweekTweek wrote:
Ok I know I said I would never post again here but i just wanted to say this one last thing. It depends if your a good entertainer if you make money or not. My wife has made 1million this week in tips at the MO. Because most of the time she is not AFk and gets the croud really roudy. She makesit a point to not charge for any of her services or even ask for a tip. She also puts all the big tippers in her bio. Several people have came up to her and tip'd her just so they could see their name in her bio.
It's really not that hard. All she does is talk to the players andgets to know them. Shegives them hugs, kisses and people love her. There are 4AFK entertainers in the same cantiana and she makes out pretty well.
Drygo wrote:
I don't know if your wife has to compete with a buffbot at the MO, but Kettemoor has some, which makes it much harder. But, as I said, "except for the rare exception." There are some entertainers who play live 100% that are able to make a very good living because they're very outgoing. I applaud them for that. But, it's the rare exception rather than the rule.
TweekTweek wrote:
Ok I know I said I would never post again here but i just wanted to say this one last thing. It depends if your a good entertainer if you make money or not. My wife has made 1million this week in tips at the MO. Because most of the time she is not AFk and gets the croud really roudy. She makesit a point to not charge for any of her services or even ask for a tip. She also puts all the big tippers in her bio. Several people have came up to her and tip'd her just so they could see their name in her bio.
TweekTweek wrote:
It's really not that hard. All she does is talk to the players andgets to know them. Shegives them hugs, kisses and people love her. There are 4AFK entertainers in the same cantiana and she makes out pretty well.
Drygo wrote:
I don't know if your wife has to compete with a buffbot at the MO, but Kettemoor has some, which makes it much harder. But, as I said, "except for the rare exception." There are some entertainers who play live 100% that are able to make a very good living because they're very outgoing. I applaud them for that. But, it's the rare exception rather than the rule.
TweekTweek wrote:
Ok I know I said I would never post again here but i just wanted to say this one last thing. It depends if your a good entertainer if you make money or not. My wife has made 1million this week in tips at the MO. Because most of the time she is not AFk and gets the croud really roudy. She makesit a point to not charge for any of her services or even ask for a tip. She also puts all the big tippers in her bio. Several people have came up to her and tip'd her just so they could see their name in her bio.
Like I said above, I've gotten over fighting about it. So, I'm not going to. But, I can tell ya one thing, I'm not about to go giving everyone hugs and kisses.
Mind buffs have no value. If you feel like the person healing and enhancing you is worth recieving a tip for the effort then by all means drop what you feel is appropriate. No matter how much you give they are not making as much as you will make in the same hour of play (based on credit per hour average.) Until such time as the developers add in a system to pay entertainers (ala the increased mission payout etc) I will stick to dancing for role play purposes or when my friends who know that I am a master request it.
Most people that actually take the time to leave a tip will leave 5k.
It's really not that hard. All she does is talk to the players and gets to know them. She gives them hugs, kisses and people love her. There are 4 AFK entertainers in the same cantiana and she makes out pretty well.
Tell her to try it on another server as say...a male trandoshan. Let us know how long it takes to get to 1 million credits.
It's easy for some entertainers, and not easy for others.
NJ62 wrote:
Now let's look at entertainer buffs.
Time to apply buffs + time waiting around.
Then we have the overhead:
Time to master + time cost finding training + time cost finding clothing + cost of clothing + time cost of earning money to pay the NPC trainer + cost of maintaining buildings to store clothing
It's not as much of a cost, but there are still time costs associated with entertaining. It definitely changes your perspective when you consider every aspect of the game according to the ATK game time associated with it. Buff bots have created the perception that time is meaningless because they are always around.
I would just like to point out that along with this that Mastering Dancer or Musician(let alone both) takes longer then most professions in this game.I think Politician takes longer. Jedi maybe if only for the fact that you have to wait for the village to cycle.
NJ62 wrote:
In this game, the only real unit of currency is ATK play.
Doctors use resources, you say. But those resources represent time spent. Either the doctor is surveying and planting down harvesters, or creature resourcing, or is paying a c/p/u fee for someone else's time doing those same activities (because harvesters are comparatively cheaply run). Same deal if the doctor buys the buffs pre-packaged - now the doctor is paying for someone else's time in gathering resources AND assembling the buffs. So a doctor buff if we break it down into time increments is:
value of time gathering resources + value of time crafting/factory babysitting + time to apply buffs + downtime. Remember, not all doctors are all busy all the time. Sometimes it's a good while between clients.
Again, somewhere along the line, someone spent time doing one of these activities. Whether the doctor doing the buffs is the same person who spent the time earlier down the line is irrelevant.
But now there are other time values... The overhead is sort of a "pro rata" bit that has to get added on because a buff is not just about the buff itself. Here are other costs.
Time to master doctor + time cost of resources expended to master + time cost of crafting stims to master + time cost finding training + time cost finding crafting equipment + time cost of earning money to pay the NPC trainer + cost of maintaining buildings to store materials + factory costs...
The list goes on. Material costs suddenly start to be irrelevant.
Now let's look at entertainer buffs.
Time to apply buffs + time waiting around.
Then we have the overhead:
Time to master + time cost finding training + time cost finding clothing + cost of clothing + time cost of earning money to pay the NPC trainer + cost of maintaining buildings to store clothing
It's not as much of a cost, but there are still time costs associated with entertaining. It definitely changes your perspective when you consider every aspect of the game according to the ATK game time associated with it. Buff bots have created the perception that time is meaningless because they are always around.
QFE - very well said.
Make a female alt give her a g- string andenjoy instant money. Sorry but thats just the way it works. *shrugs* it's unfortunate and unfair but thats the way it is.
picklesSW wrote:
It's really not that hard. All she does is talk to the players and gets to know them. She gives them hugs, kisses and people love her. There are 4 AFK entertainers in the same cantiana and she makes out pretty well.
Tell her to try it on another server as say...a male trandoshan. Let us know how long it takes to get to 1 million credits.
It's easy for some entertainers, and not easy for others.
TweekTweek wrote:
Make a female alt give her a g- string andenjoy instant money. Sorry but thats just the way it works. *shrugs* it's unfortunate and unfair but thats the way it is.
TweekTweek wrote:
Panthu wrote:
TweekTweek wrote:
Why would you not tip a dancer who is paying 15 bucks a month to heal your BF, mind wounds and buff you for 2 hours.
Uh, maybe because you don't have to? Come on, that's pretty clear. It's also pretty easy to understand why we are so "abused" with a set up that gives us almost no control.
Why are you being so aggresive and 1 starring all of my posts?.....*shrug*
I have never been to a forum that was angry and mean to new people who were just trying to contribute. I'm never going to come to this forum ever again. Do you think your negative replys actually help people?
At least take the time to understand what I'm saying before saying that I'm wrong, lol.