Dancer Archive

Thread: The top 5 Issues for Dancers. 7-24-03. Please review and let me know what you think. Thanks!

Ravenmist
Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:52 am
#1


(There are a few problems with the formatting of my letter with the way the boards show things, so this isn't exactly the way it would appear but the information is still here at least.)



After sorting and reading through a lot of great feedback from the Dancer community, these are the issues I feel should be the first to look at and take into consideration for change. The list is in order of importance with number 1 being the issue of greatest concern among the dancers. After each problem I have also included at least one possibility or alternative to what is currently in place with the exception of number 1 and 5.


1. There is a major lack of flourishes and variation in the dances. I realize the work involved in improving this situation would be great, but as things stand the lack of depth in the dances is of great concern to the community.


-The biggest of these complaints is having only three of four flourishes per dance with little exception. This is just not acceptable in the long run for this profession, it gives the dancers very little artistic flexibility and the same three of four flourishes gets boring to watch.


-Another problem is that the generic flourishes, 5-8, more often then not do not fit the dance style they are associated with. This in most cases makes those flourishes unusable simply because combining them with the dance looks ridiculous at best.


-The falling animation for Poplock needs to be changed badly. Doing a formal flourish in the middle of a Poplock dance makes absolutely no sense at all.


2. Action cost for dancing is way too high. As it is right now a Master Dancer can only dance for a few minutes before having to sit and rest again. This is completely out of sync with reality and is not acceptable in the least.


*Ideas to fix this problem.


a.) As things are currently the more skilled the dancer is the faster they run out of action. A real dancers stamina and ability to dance longer improves as they practice and condition their bodies. If anything the action cost should go down instead of up and at Master should be very small so they can dance for much longer periods of time.


b.) Make one of our otherwise less useful branches in the dancing tree affect this or give some sort of bonus to your action pool.


3. The techniques branch and the "special effects" within are hardly worth using. They give no benefit to the dancer outside of a very quick piece of eye candy at a high cost to the dancer. Its not that we don't like having something flashy because we do, but the cost is just too high right now.


-The main issue here is cost vs reward. The effect gives no experience bonus, no special benefit to healing and is extremely short in duration and yet it costs a great deal of action to use. When you combine this with the already excessive cost of dancing and flourishing its just not worth using them.


*Ideas to fix this problem.


a.) Remove the action cost all together for using the effects or take the cost out of the mind pool instead.


b.) Greatly increase the duration of each effect.


c.) Include some kind of experience bonus for using these effects. This fix should only be considered up until Master level where one of the other two ideas needs to be in place instead.


4. Base dancing experience on the level of knowledge the dancer has, not on the dance they are performing. This is a very frustrating issue for almost every dancer that has not yet become a master or does not plan on mastering the profession. The problem here is when you want to do a dance that matches the type of music being played, but in order to do that you would have to give up a large amount of experience.


*Idea to fix this problem.


a.) As things currently are I can see why this would of been considered a problem. Under the system


as it is now this would encourage dancers to all dance the lowest possible dance so the action cost would be as small as possible. The answer to this is simple tho, if you make the changes outlined in problem number 2, this would no longer be an issue.


5. A couple of small inconsistencies/ bugs.


-Decrease the rate of falling, it is much higher then it should be and the fact that a Master Dancer or any dancer for that matter falls as much as they do makes no sense. No real dancer falls that much, this needs to be seriously looked at.


-Fix the buggy look of Formal and Lyrical when others watch you, apparently some people but I don't believe everyone, is having a problem where these dances seem to glide and not move as intended or as the dancer see's.


*Idea to fix these problems.


Yes I realize that technically these are two separate issues, but both are rather small and as far as an idea to fix I think they both speak for themselves.


Thank you very much for your consideration on the problems we see with our profession. Your feedback is greatly anticipated and I look forward to hearing what you think about these issues. If I can be of any further service or if you have any questions at all please don't hesitate to let me know.


Best Regards,


Ravenmist - Dancer Correspondent




There are many other very important issues and changes I would love to see included but right now I'm trying to hit the ones that seem to beof the greatest importance to the community and the well being of the profession. Thanks again to all of you who posted your concerns, your help is greatly appreciated.

Yajedi
Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:21 am
#2


2. Action cost for dancing is way too high. As it is right now a Master Dancer can only dance for a few minutes before having to sit and rest again. This is completely out of sync with reality and is not acceptable in the least.


Reality aside, I do not agree with this one. With a good stat boosting drink (tatooine sunburn), its easy to dance for around 10 minutes nonstop. The price is very reasonable as well. And it gives us dancers something to buy, which fuels our body and the economy.


Everything else sounds good, thanks Ravenmist.




Vid - Doctor
----
Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4
Ilooli
Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:26 am
#3

I think it is a great job. Everyone is going to have different ideas about priorities, but I think this list is really well thought out, presented and supported.Really the onlyone that even sounds technically challenging (to a computer semi-literate like me anyway) isNo. 1. But from what I saw inyour originalthread, that issue isthe consensus top priority for dancers. I think it is a good list to present also because I really did not see anyone who thought any of the items on this list were a bad idea.



/clap




Eiloo'li Ze-Zasu
Twi'lek of Eclipse
Master Of Dancing and Fencing
Mivora
Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:28 am
#4

You would still have a market for boosting drinks.. it would just shift from your high level dancers to the low level dancers and high level dancers would still want the drinks so they can dance longer. We are not talking about removing the action cost of dancing, just reversing it. It IS completely out of step with reality to have a dancer get weaker and tire faster the longer they have been a dancer.


Min'Tora Ehi

SlickRiptide
Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:00 am
#5






Yajedi wrote:

Reality aside, I do not agree with this one. With a good stat boosting drink (tatooine sunburn), its easy to dance for around 10 minutes nonstop. The price is very reasonable as well. And it gives us dancers something to buy, which fuels our body and the economy.




I'm going to disagree with Yajedi here for a very simple game balance reason: Music is NOT hampered in this way. Dance literally takes twice as long to build up as music does. Even in huge groups, the dancers will be getting 30-40/tick while the musicians are getting 60-70/tick AND draining their action bar more slowly.


If they don't make dance less demading, action pool-wise, then they ought to at least make it as rewarding as music is in the XP department.



Priall
Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:30 am
#6

Wow, very well thought out and written. It seems to be a pretty good echo of what everyone was talking about in the earlier thread. Great work, and congratulations! :-)



Ania'dlin


Theed, Naboo


Ahazi




Ania'dlin ~ Master Entertainer / Master Dancer / Expert Hairstylist ~ Ahazi
Nefret ~ Roguish Master Tailor / Merchant / Novice Fencer ~ Starsider
======================
Visit the Ingen Technologies Mall in Arcadia, Naboo (7116, 6475)!
I bought my boyfriend Doom 3.........Doom 3 is scary

Mivora
Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:15 pm
#7

Looks good Ravenmist. I agree that the flourish should stay as our number 1 issues are they are not fixing all of the dances.


Min'Tora Ehi

Starlance
Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:45 pm
#8

Well, I think you've done a great job overall of finding the top issues with Dancers right now Ravenmist. Good show! I might prioritize a bit differently, but overall, you've really found the key spots, I think. I personally would rank #4 higher, and really, I would end up incorporting #2 into it the solution. First and foremost, I think that XP earned should be based up the skill level of the dancer, not upon which dance he/she is performing. Hand-in-hand with that, the action costs would have to be changed to also be based upon the skill level of the performer and not so much upon the dance, to keep the cost/gain all in the correct proportions. At the time this is done, I would certainly hope that some of the costs would be adjusted to allow higher level dancers to dance -more- before wearing out rather than less. In truth, there is no reason to limit a Master Dancer at all as the XP gain becomes meaningless at that point. Why not open up Master Dancers so they can dance for very little Action cost? There is no longer any advancement rate to be concerned about. I think that would be a HUGE incentive to Master the profession, IMO. right now, I don't know if I'm going to bother putting all the skill points into the healing lines just to make Master. As fast as we already heal, they seem nothing but useless grind, IMO.

That would be one key issue that I see that's not on your list -- that half of the Dancer profession is really redundant skill boxes that serve no purpose other than to suck up XP (time) and skill points. But that's just my own opinion, of course.

Dance on!
LordDarkk
Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:05 pm
#9

raven, i think you compiled and excellent list, and i like the format as well. the only oft mentioned improvement that didn't make the list was the denial of service/reward nice guys option. i think our next list should include it in some form, even if we have to mention that the community is relatively split on which one we want.


starlance, good call on your analysis of master dancer. i guess the only reason i can think of that master dancers need to not dance 24/7 is perhaps for the benefit of the younger ones. i'm not sure if its a terribly good argument, but there are 'Sharks' who will stand near the front of the cantina, in the most seductive fleshwrap and suck up most of the already meager tips coming into the place. allowing them to do so 24/7 would probably harm at least the income of the younger dancers, in some way. its at least something the community at large can discuss.




Dyvana Darkk - Starsider
LordDarkk
Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:09 pm
#10

oh, another quickie that someone else mentioned late in the last thread:


'You cannot start dancing while running/skill animating'.


OOOOOOOOHHHHH! do i HATE that message!! i know it applies to other jobs/areas than just us, but my biggest problem with this is its inconsistency. sometimes after a short pause, i can start dancing, but other times, it seems to take two-three times as long a wait after performing the previous action. if it were a consistent amount of time, that would be a lot better.




Dyvana Darkk - Starsider
CSMRaider
Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:02 am
#11

Another issue that would be nice to fix is drifting. I was with 4 other dancers last night up on the steps of the cantina and we had to stop every few minutes to reposition ourselves. And we were just doing popular2! I can understand a little drift with formal, especially if you face a different way in the middle of a flourish, but this is just annoying.



Ol'rei
Twi'lek Master Doctor
Talus
Ravenmist
Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:21 am
#12

I also agree that is indeed annoying CSM, but its something I think we can live with for a little longer. Hopefully if some of these issues I put in this first letter get addressed we can move on down the line to another annoying things like drifting.
Ravenmist
Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:25 am
#13

In light of Q's post I'll be making some changes to the #1 issue on my letter. I will post it here shortly. This is indeed some great news already.


Page 1 of 2
Previous Next