CUEmu - Thread Posts

Beery

Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:40 am

Are you andancer who istired of cantina management hiring cheap unskilled labour (AFK scabs) who perform poorly and alienate your customers,resulting in lower tips?

Have you had enough of buffbot blacklegs hired bya reactionarycity governmentto put hardworking entertainers out of business for good?

Fed up with the elitist Jedi and Sith, who think entertainers (who, after all, have as many midichlorians as any other group of beings) can't be members of their order?

Are you appalled that slavery still exists in the galaxy, and that entertainers are its most common victims?

Tired of combat professionals who treat entertainers as second-class citizens?

Had enough of cantina management whoallow rude andunscrupulouscustomers toget theirentertainment without paying for it?

Did Jabba the Hutt feed your slave/dancer sister to the Rancor?

Are you tired of certain members of thepublic treating us as if we're little more thanprostitutes?

Had enough of cantina owners who force us to work for tips and refuse to pay us a steady paycheck?

Are you just sick and tired of the lack of respect that entertainers receive throughout the galaxy?

Do you just feel unappreciated and need a group hug?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, it's time for you to do something about it - join the union! The UCW is here to make sure that you have a strongvoice in your community and in your galaxy. The cantina owners, the city government, the Sith, the Jedi, and the Galactic Empirehave billions to spend onpropaganda that keeps us exactlywhere they want us - down and out and begging for their table scraps. But that can change. If we band together we can become a force to be reckoned with at the bargaining table. Our demands can be met, and withthe strong voice that the union provideswe can finallyforce a fair contract down the throats of the powers that seek to oppress and enslave us.

The UCW will organize well-planned and well-populated events that will further our cause and that will bring the public onto our side. With humour and wit, we will alert the people to our cause, and strike fear into the hearts ofthe powers of repression and slavery. Where there is injustice, we will be there - united -to stop it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The UCW is not a guild (although if members want it, it could develop into one).It is a loose but committed support group of SWG players who play as entertainment characters and who share common goals, and who stand in solidarity with each other to air our grievances in a lighthearted but effective way.We will get together to attend weekly events, as recently suggested by Warryyr, and we will come to the aid of fellow entertainers when they feel threatened or annoyed with buffbots and AFKers.We are not here to grief other players.On the contrary, the UCW will behave in a way that makes protest fun for everyone.Humour and mutual respect are our watchwords.This is a way for disenchanted players to get a new feeling of fun in the game, by venting their frustration in a positive and healing way.We will roleplay a union in the game, and our fellow players will grow to love us.We will entertain them, we will make them laugh, and thereby we will make the difference and turn this game experience around, both for ourselves and for everyone else.

Members will get together via email or on game forums to share slogans and to discuss issues and how to best translate them into the game via roleplaying.Members will be kept posted of events, and hopefully each member will create a character on each server so that we can occasionally enjoy mass action on a particular server – to really bring our point home.Lag is a possibility at these events, so if attendance promises to be high, we may spread the event over a few servers so that our activities don’t upset other players.

The union will be run as a direct democracy.Each member will have an equal voice.Administrators will be voted in by the membership, and elections will be held whenever any two members decide a vote is necessary regarding any issue or to change administrators (assuming someone else wants the job).Details will follow when it’s clear that the union is something that enough people are interested in being a part of.

The first event I’m considering is an anti-slavery march on Tatooine (march route and server to be determined).That should get things off to a humorous start.Let’s discuss ideas for events – anyone can get the ball rolling.Let’s make the events funny, but with an underlying serious message.

If you're interested in joining the UCW, send me a message or email me at [email protected]

Message Edited by Beery on 06-18-2004 10:44 AM

Message Edited by Beery on 06-19-2004 12:27 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Beery

Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:10 am

#2

Aren't any dancers interested in this idea? I thought it would be a no-brainer: no guild dues required, information emailed to you about upcoming protests and ideas, fun slogans that are designed and implemented by you rather than some central committee, your ideas for proteststaken seriously by like-minded people and with a good chance of implementation, no pressure to participate in strike actions or on-the-street activism, and the chance to have your ownissue raised in a more forceful way. What's not to like?

Perhaps posting before a weekend was just not good timing, in which case... bump.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:36 pm

#3

I don't see a problem with AFK buffers. How do they hurt your profession?

Beery

Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:07 pm

#4

It's not only my profession they can hurt, and by the way buffbots aren't just hurting the cantina professions - they're literally killing them. Since the arrival of the buffbots you simply can't play successfully as a dancer or musician. They've alsovery likelyalready slowed development in all professions due to the fact that the developers are probably falling all over each other to fix the exploit, and they pose a significantthreat to the game's longevity because of the number of players that may quit the game because of it. I'll see if I can find another post of mine that goes into greater detail on this issue, and I'll repost the relevant info here.

Message Edited by Beery on 06-21-2004 05:09 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:12 pm

#5

Examples please of how it is hurting other professions. It sure has helped my profession out to have my buffs. All the combat professions can get buffed quickly and get back to leveling up and fighting. I spend much more time in the game when I can get buffed. In fact, I used to notplay if I couldn't get buffed. If there are any live buffers in a cantina, let me know. . . let everyone know. I will go to you first. Make sure you are advertising it like the doctors do. Make sure they aren't those lame 10 minute a piece buffs too. I can get both a mind and focus/willpower buff in 8 minutes from an AFK buffer.

And, how do you successfully play the entertainer profession? Don't you just stand there and dance all day? What do you need money for too?

Beery

Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:44 pm

#6

"I can get both a mind and focus/willpower buff in 8 minutes from an AFK buffer."

Exactly, which is why even Master Dancers/Musicians can't compete with buffbots. Entertainers are leaving the game in droves because they aren't getting paid anymore. That's one major reasonwhy you're not getting your buffs in the cantina anymore, and the situation is getting worse. It's impossible to survive as a dancer or musician now, so people are quitting, they're moving to other professions. It doesn't help that leets always resented having to take time out to visit a cantina. The cantina professionals have never exactly been loved - not even those like me who despised AFKers and who never spammed for tips.

Here's the reason why this issue is a danger to the game (excerpted from another post on a different forum):

"I don't get it...what's the problem with a buffbot? From an anti-social point of view, I think they're great, I don't go into the cantina to socialize I go in for a buff plain and simple..."

I completely agree with your reasoning why you should be able to play the game non-socially. I am not the most social person. Sometimes I just don't want to be bothered talking to people in the game, and I just want to be left alone to get on with my business. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You should be able to go up to a real live player and get what you require without interacting with them if that's what you want. A good entertainer knows very quicklywhen to talk to their client, and when to keep quiet.

The problem is, entertainers rely on tips. It's their only major source of income. Now I think it'sonlyreasonable that each profession in the game should be able to be self-sufficient in terms of money. Some people just don't like killing things - to them that is boring or distasteful (even though it's just a game), so that's why some people like to play as anentertainer and refuse to play as a combat professional. So entertainers need to be able to play the game without killing. That is the whole point of an entertainer profession. True, entertainers have missions that they can take from terminals, but those only pay 200 credits at most for 10 to 30 minutes work. That will pay for instruments (eventually), but itis never going to make enough to buy clothes or a droid, or for stat changes at ID tents, or to buy a speeder, or for any of the other normal game activities. In order to really play the game, entertainersneed tips. To put it simply, buffbots (which often give free buffs and heals) remove the need to tip entertainers. Thus, if players go to buffbots rather than to entertainers, entertainers cannot reach their full potential for enjoyment in the game. The less entertainers there are in the game, the more players will need a source of buffs and heals. Thus, more buffbots, and less entertainers. Finally there will be no entertainers, and players like myselfwho don't enjoy the PvP and PvE aspect of the game will leave the game. Remember, this game doesn't only existto givecombat-orientated players what they want. It also exists (supposedly) to give more peaceful-orientated players the chance to have fun. Nowat this point you're saying "so what? I have what I need", but it will affect you. Read on. By this pointyou're stillgetting what you need from buffbots, but a bunch of people who were supposed to be able to play the game and have fun are not. They pay their $15 per month too, but their ability to play the game is suddenly curtailed to such an extent that they don't want to play anymore. All of a sudden a bunch of players stop paying their $15, and because ofthe resulting loss of revenueSOE decides to cut back on staff. Then the patch that was coming for your profession gets delayed due to a lack of staff. Then some of your fellow players get pissed off and leave the game. SOE cuts more staff, and the game slowlygoes down the gurgler - all due toplayers' willingness to usebuffbots.

Sure, this may be somewhat exaggerated and simplistic, but thisis basically how any game dies out. Less revenue means less development, and finally the death of the game. This is why we need to be supportive of all players' issues and needs, or in the end we won't have a game to play.

As I said, I often tend to dislike the social aspects of the game. I dislike PvP and PvE even more, but I still respect the need for those aspects of the game, and I support the needs of combat-orientated players. If I don't, I run the risk of alienating other players and speeding the game's demise. If players don't support the needs of entertainers - if they are in factcontemptuous of the whole entertainer class, they are working towards the game's ruin. Whether players like entertainers or not, if they make it hard for players to play as entertainers, they are workingagainst their own interests.

"And, how do you successfully play the entertainer profession? Don't you just stand there and dance all day? What do you need money for too?"

It might help if you were not quite so condescending. After all, all combat types do is run around killing things. What do they need money for? After all, you can kill things with the pistol you were given at the beginning of the game, right? That is the equivalent of the attitude you display by askingthis question in this way. It shows a marked disrespect for my play style, and a complete underestimation of what entertainers are all about. This is exactly the attitude that has driven many entertainers out of the game - it's why entertainers resort to mindless AFKing, and it's why you can't find anyone to buff you in a cantina.

Your question is framed as if all we do is dance. Apparently we don't give buffs, we don't need clothing enhancements to improve buffs, we don't need to actually enjoy the game by buying clothes, pets, droids (which can improve our entertainment) or vehicles. Apparently, you seem to think that we're not here to enjoy ourselves or to give you better service. You'd prefer me to give you mediocre heals wearing the skivvies I was wearing when I got off the transport. That may be fine for you (although somehow I think you'd still go to the buffbot), but it's not okay for me. Why should I play a game where all I can hope for in my chosen profession is to give players a mediocreheal-slightly worse than thatgiven by a buffbot (which amounts to an NPC)? Why should I playa gamein which I cannever buy any of the neat items - droids, vehicles, clothing, that other professionals can easily afford??? Does that seem like an inviting profession to you? If it does, I invite you to try it for a week - start a character with no money, and really play - without AFKing - an entertainer's life. See how you like it. See if you can afford to buy a house, or evena vehicle by the end of the week. A week playing as an entertainer will show you just how incredibly hard it is to survive as a dancer or musicianright now.

Message Edited by Beery on 06-21-2004 07:01 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:04 pm

#7

Ha Ha, instead of getting all huffy-buffy about my so-called condenscending remarks, why don't you just try to answer the question. Thankfully, someone enlightened me on another thread and explained more about your entertainer profession. You dance/play music sometimes, but then you need a vehicle, house, items to put in the house, shuttleport tickets, clothes, etc.

Yes, I see a reason now for tipping you guys. I can see what you struggle with. If the dev's want to keep your profession alive then they do need to make some changes. But, I see evolution where you destruction. Inrealworld many things that were used all the time are phased out over time. Kinda like how Wal-Mart wipes out all the small-town Mom and Pop stores. I don't mind as long as I get what I need. Instead of trying to save a dying breed, try to adapt and evolve to current conditions. Things always change.

Just to be fair, I plan on getting my BF healed from novice entertainers so that they can get XP. I may tip them seeing now that they too need money but I don't want to tip some hologrinder. I also would like to get my buffs from a real person but they need to be in the Cantina advertising. Otherwise I have no other choice than to go to an AFK buffer.

Everyone has an opinion on this issue. One thing is for sure, something needs to be done about your profession.

Beery

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:22 pm

#8

Tell me, what would be the result if I posted the following on the combat forums:

"All combat types do is run around killing things. What do they need money for?"

"Ha Ha, instead of getting all huffy-buffy about my so-called condenscending remarks, why don't you just try to answer the question."

I did answer your question - very clearly and at some length. You think my response was huffy? Tell you what, I'll go over to the combat forums and post a mirror version of what you posted. Let's see if the response is 'huffy' or downright rude. I expect I shall be called a troll, a flamer, and probably unprintable things. Let's see. I'll post the results here as they come in.

Message Edited by Beery on 06-21-2004 08:43 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:39 pm

#9

Yo, calm down. I was once an entertainer too. I quit because I wanted to do combat. I didn't see a way thatI could make money in the entertainer profession. The point is, all most combat type people see is the entertainers in the cantina. All we know is that you are there. I honestly didn't see any other point to the profession, or that people there were doing other things than socializing. That was all I saw. I definitely have a different perspective on the situation than the entertainers do. Which explains why I am in this forum today, trying to get a grasp on the current situation of a profession I used to be in. I am obviously an outsider looking in, seeing only the surface.

Anyway, someone else explained to me why you guys need money and what the AFK buffers are doing to you.

Beery

Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:56 pm

#10

Here are just a couple of responses I got before owning up. Check it out:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=232030

The responses there were as annoyed as mine.

And I am calm. We have learned how to stay calm on the entertainer forums, because naive and ignorant people post here every few hours. You say you were an entertainer, still youthink we just dance all day, and you think we don't need money. I'm sorry, but that is incredibly naive. If you know better, then your post amounts to trolling, pure and simple. In todays SWG even leet dudez'have been entertainers'. But there's a difference between AFKing your way to master just to get the badge, orhologrinding to get Jedi, and actually entertaining - meaningplaying the game ATKbecause you love to dance or play an instrument in a Star Wars cantina.

Message Edited by Beery on 06-21-2004 08:04 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:03 pm

#11

Yes, you too need to take a chill-pill. Thanks for starting a new thread I can talk on. Again... take a look at what I've written and you will see that I took time today to understand your problem... something no one else would do. I get flamed most the time for even coming to your forum. Thanks to all the helpful entertainers out there that can keep their cool and inform the rest of us the true importance of the entertainer.

Beery

Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:08 pm

#12

Well you claim you took time to understand my profession. Maybe you took time, but it's clear you don't understand. You asked one of the most naive questions that can be asked about the entertainer class, and the time you've been here indicates you should know better. How do you expect me to respond? Some of your responses indicate naivete, if not outrightdisrespect. Your attitude is combative. Why should I respond well to that?

Since it seems you need to have the last word, I'lluse space here tothank you for the bump.

Message Edited by Beery on 06-21-2004 08:46 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

phujitiv

Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:12 pm

#13

I am in a combat profession... perhaps my combativeness come from that. Or, perhaps it is because I am a wookie. You know how we always lose control. I came to your thread looking for answers... I continue to get flamed. I honestly thought you guys just danced around all day. That's all. I'm sure you will continue to reply to me since you have nothing better to do. In fact, why am I still talking to you? See ya. Hope you cheer up.

Dancer Archive

Thread: AFKers annoying? Buffbots got you down? Union of Cantina Workers needs members