Dancer Archive
Thread: Castaspella's Call for Change
1.) Healing BF in camps
While this would obviously cause problems if the ability was given in the entertainer tree, if it was given at novice Dancer, and up through the battle fatigue healing tree, it would give us something to set us appart from the entertainers. Also, it should only be possible to heal BF in a field base camp or better.
2.) Some type of combat bonus to group mates
Something along the lines of a +10 melee defense/+10 ranged defense at master, only while the dancer is actively performing.
3.) Skill tree re-development
Having 2 entire trees devoted to skill mods that only affect healing rate, which is already very high at apprentice dancer, is nothing short of insulting to the profession. I propose that the two trees, combined with the field BF healing mod, be consolidated into one tree, with the remaining tree dedicated to field abilities such as the suggestion in #2.
4.) Give us entertainment healing xp for healing our own BF
It does seem apropriate for BF only, I forsee that if this was allowed for mind wounds as well there would be room for exploitation.
Please add your own suggestions, and save the "Dancers should only be eye-candy" comments for another thread.
Castaspella Perfect
Skilled Dancer (4-4-4-2)
Bria
Sirgleno wrote:
Some ideas:
2.) Some type of combat bonus to group mates
Something along the lines of a +10 melee defense/+10 ranged defense at master, only while the dancer is actively performing.
3.) Skill tree re-development
Having 2 entire trees devoted to skill mods that only affect healing rate, which is already very high at apprentice dancer, is nothing short of insulting to the profession. I propose that the two trees, combined with the field BF healing mod, be consolidated into one tree, with the remaining tree dedicated to field abilities such as the suggestion in #2.
4.) Give us entertainment healing xp for healing our own BF
It does seem apropriate for BF only, I forsee that if this was allowed for mind wounds as well there would be room for exploitation.
2. By what rationale would this make sense? It's already a stretch that entertainers heal mind wounds, but it is a stretch that I'm glad is made (as it makes entertainers something more than just eye candy). So, when it is a major suspension of disbelief for us to heal a head shot through dance, how can one justify increasing someone's melee and ranged defense by us just dancing? What is so magical about the dance that someone says, "Wow, she has some great moves. I just doged three bullets because of her."
There is the tired answer of, "But her moves will distract the enemy so he misses more often." I hope you don't think of that as a legitimate response. A Stormtrooper is not going to suddenly look up and say, "Wow, she's purty," when he's under fire by Rebel scum.
3. I don't mind the healing trees being separate. I could see room for improvement, though. At the very least, I'd like to see the healing trees not be dependent on Dance Knowledge, though. If you have Fatigue Healing IV, then you heal that more quickly, regardless of if it's Basic or Lyrical.
4. I disagree with getting XP on your own healing. Medics don't get XP for healing themselves. Why should dancers get XP for their own healing? It can also lead to abuse. Handle radioactive materials, get fatigue, heal it up. You can get Sampling, Crafting, and Healing XP all by yourself. Although, I don't know how abusive this could get. I'm sure that healing your own BF won't contribute too much to the 25k you need to fill Heal I. But I never saw a problem with getting Ent Heal XP, either.
1.) Healing BF in a field base camp or better.
The whole point of the entertainer is to give the players a reason to come into town and socialize. If you do this then they won't come into town and socialize as much. Defeats the purpose of the class.
2.) Some type of combat bonus to group mates.
You want to help your group mates during combat? Pick up a weapon and learn a combat class. Dancing should not give direct in-combat bonuses in the middle of a battle. Can you really imagine Bob Hope entertaining the troops during the middle of an air-raid? No, he did that sort of thing (which definitely healed mind wounds and battle fatigue of real troops) during down time, not in the middle of active combat.
3.) Skill tree re-development. Having 2 entire trees devoted to skill mods that only affect healing rate, which is already very high at apprentice dancer, is nothing short of insulting to the profession. .
Following that logic medics shouldn't need First Aid or Diagnositics or Pharmacy either, since it is just about improving their speed/efficiency of healing. Entertainers are healers. It is perfectly justifiable to have huge chunks of their skill tree devoted to healing ability.
4.) Give us entertainment healing xp for healing our own BF. It does seem apropriate for BF only, I forsee that if this was allowed for mind wounds as well there would be room for exploitation.
But not for BF? Why not? BF is actually easier to get than mind wounds. ANY wound will contribute to BF. Not many things directly target mind. Either way this is too exploitable. If you do this then medics will have to get XP for self healing and healing pets. And if you don't think that would be also exploited, think again.
So, I'm sorry but I must respectfully disagree on all 4 points.
C
The flawed assumptions above, btw thank you Sultrina, Pickles, and all my wellspoken detractors, are that the dancing profession is primarily a social profession.
Now it is true that many people enjoy being social while dancing, heck I do actually enjoy it, but it shouldn't be the focus of a profession that strives for legitimacy. I want, as you all now know, the dancing profession to have some depth beyond mind buffing that is not exclusively social. All the professions are social, I don't see why I am getting so much struggle out of the outspoken community *(btw you are in a minority) when I am trying to advocate making our class more fun to play.
*assumption
Castaspella Perfect
All this talk of how it would actually apply in real life, or should happen in SW:G, is also flawed because these assumptions are based on large, highly orginized, controlled from afar, armies. It is not based on small bands of adventurers, which as many people don't acknoledge, is what this and similar games is about.
Thanks
Sirgleno wrote:
OK,
The flawed assumptions above, btw thank you Sultrina, Pickles, and all my wellspoken detractors, are that the dancing profession is primarily a social profession.
Umm... Why, exactly, do you classify the belief "dancing is primarily a social profession" to be a flawed assumption? Do you have some evidence to back up your apparent belief that the game designers actually intended dancers and musicians to be non-social characters and it's just us players who have somehow played them wrong?
Now it is true that many people enjoy being social while dancing, heck I do actually enjoy it, but it shouldn't be the focus of a profession that strives for legitimacy.
Err, why not? You appear to be saying that a purely social profession is one that doesn't deserve legitimacy. For that matter, who said we were striving for legitimacy in the first place?
I want, as you all now know, the dancing profession to have some depth beyond mind buffing that is not exclusively social.
Then come up with some "non-social" abilities for entertainers that don't involve turning us into bards.
All the professions are social, I don't see why I am getting so much struggle out of the outspoken community *(btw you are in a minority) when I am trying to advocate making our class more fun to play.
The emphasis above is mine. Again, I'm curious where your supporting evidence is. I read the boards daily. I play the game daily or close to it. I see lots and lots of entertainers who believe the direct opposite of what you're saying,while I see very few who agree with suggestions like the ones you've made. I have to conclude that YOU are in a minority. Unless the majority you're trying to justify your beliefs with is the majority of non-entertainer combat types who wish they had a bard around to do the sorts of buffing and debuffing that you seem to want us to do.
We're aware of your opinions. Now you'll have to back them up if you want them to have any weight at all.
Sirgleno wrote:
OK,
The flawed assumptions above, btw thank you Sultrina, Pickles, and all my wellspoken detractors, are that the dancing profession is primarily a social profession.
It's not a flawed assumption. It is how the profession was designed. Go and read any of Holo's (the primary game designer) various and sundry posts, including a recent one where he describes wincing every time someone says they grind through entertainer or dancer because these are supposed to be social professions. He specifically said in multiple posts that the whole point of the entertainment classes (and he also says the Medic classes, BTW) is to provide something fun and enjoyable for social-minded players who wanted to enjoy a MMORPG but were not necessarily interested in (only) combat and exploration.
The designers of this game looked at the potential market and noticed that there was a huge audience -- the socializers on the bartle scale -- who were not being catered to at all by current MMORPGs, which focus entirely (or nearly so) on combat. So they deliberately added classes to the game that would not be just "eye candy" but would have real meaning and purpose and would give the socializers something to do.
If you take those classes and say, "Now a big chunk of your skills and XPs are going to come from combat," then all the heavy socializers would throw up their hands, quit the profession, and probably leave the game.
There are plenty of skill points to master up to 3 professions. Entertainer is just ONE. You can pick 2 others, both combat classes, and master those, if you want. I see no reason why dancers need to be made more combat-capable. My Twi'lek dancer girl who is also a Carbineer is perfectly combat capable as it is, thank you very much. She doesn't need to be turned into some Rolemaster-esque dervish dancing the "dance of sleep" and the "dance of death" at the enemy in the middle of combat.
C
I thought it was clear that the "minority status" of people that believe that dancing should be almost exclusively a social profession was an assumption, in case it wasn't: "The above statement regarding the minority status of people who believe dancing should be primarily a social profession was an assumption on my part."
now...
I back this up with my experiences, nearly all dancers I have met in person, Sultrina being the notable exception, want the dancer to have an expanded out of cantina function. I think that letting dancers heal bf in the proposed(on the ranger board) permanent ranger camp would go a long way to getting the dancers out in the field. I do want bardlike abilities, although I think the bard comparison is best left to musicians. I am sick of hearing the same handful of people who make up the bulk of the posts on this board claim to be the majority, although it sure seems like they are due to the relative silence of less vocal dancers. I **assume** that the less vocal have views that more closely reflect mine than Sultrina's (note: Sultrina if it is not ok to group the non-combat supporters under your banner then please let me know, but I suspect you are ok with this). As I believe this is indeed the case than I would like to redirect this discussion to possible additional abilities. I, nor any other dancer I have discussed this with, see combat abilities as vital, although I am at a loss as to what real substance could be added to the dancing profession that goes beyond aesthetics other than combat abilities, hence the thread.
again...
Please, if you have an idea for additional abilities that a dancer could/should have to add to our profession, I implore you to post your ideas here, and please respect my intent for this thread and do not use it as a forum to reiterate your belief that dancers should not have combat abilities, once is enough in this thread.
Castaspella Perfect
Bria
I for one would like to see hard fact %'s from the DEV's then on what %'s of master entertainers/musicians/dancers have "macroed" their way to master. So that we can then proceed to ignore them all...
For one I would not mind seeing some "bard" or some form of out of cantina uses. I have no combat use at all. And yes if I really wanted I could drop some entertainer things and get some combat skills.. but I love entertaining. I wouldn't want to drop my Master Ent.(although I myself wouldn't mind dropping the ID skills I'm not willing to do it at the cost of losing the Master Ent. box). I love entertaining I love hanging out with everyone. But still every so often I get extremly sick and tired of it all and just want to get out and be of some help to those that might get stuck with me in their group.
Is the answer maybe some new class hybrid that is a Bard. Or a Battle Dancer or something... maybe...
I just wanted to point out here that from my window... what I see and what I hear from those playing the game(and don't tend to post due to the "nature" of most of the SWG forums) is that it's not a 90% hate the idea. If the idea really is a minority view then it's more like a 49% Minority vs the 51% Majority.. *shrugs* But then again most numbers and views thrown out are made up with no real solid facts to base them on other then our own experiances.
Want a bard? Play a different game or maybe look into the squad leader.
Sorry if this sounds harsh...I'm in a bit of a mood today...but we are the social profession. If you are unhappy performing in cantinas and feel the need to be on the field of combat, you have plenty of excess points you can spend on that, or you can pick a different profession. Your suggestions, while they sound nice on the surface, are a sure fire way to take the social professions and turn them into battle support professions, thereby completely destroying the entire comcept and eliminating an aspect of the game that a lot of people truly enjoy.
- J