Dancer Archive
Thread: Ravenmist: Faction-Limited Registration In Player Cantinas, A BAD Idea
Okay, this to me is a rather serious problem that needs to be adressed. As it stands now, if an individual lays down a cantina or structure, their faction affiliation will somehow be "Imprinted" on the structure making factionally opposed dancers unable to register at that location. Frankly, I think it is a bad idea that should be changed. I have had factionally neutral and Rebel cities ask me to perform in their venue for a set time for pay by the city government. They want me there (understanding that I am Imperial), and I want to be there, and yet I am unable to register their cantina on the world map so people may know I am available for service. I cannot for the life of me understand why the developers would make registration a faction issue, when neither the entertainers like myself want it, nor the venue owner wants it. If players from an opposed faction are able to enter this "partisan" cantina structure and receive service, then it is only fair that they may give service as well. I want it, the cantina owners want it, and the cantina patrons want it.
Registration is a matter of convenience that helps BOTH entertainers and characters in the field. It helps me because it informs players in the field that they don't have to make the long trip to the "grind capitals" to receive service. It helps them because it shows them which towns are staffed so as to better plan their trips. Making registration a faction issue will only complicate the problems we have now of an unequal distribution of entertainers in the cantinas as they stand, and with more cities on the way, will make the few entertainers that are willing to sit in out of the way places unable to use the tools that they need to do their jobs properly.
I have had to educate many of those I entertain about the registration system before this latest incident. Now, I am afraid that very system may make my job more difficult.
/applaud
Madame I agree with you 100%. The registration limitation is ridiculous. When I was neutral it was especially annoying to me that I could not register anywhere I pleased.
They should at least make this an option in the structure management terminal, so the cantina owner may choose whether only players of their faction, neutrals, or any faction may register on the planetary map.
This just seems wrong to me.
C
Okay, I'll see what I can do. My guess is I'll probably be able to get them to back off on the neutral not being able to register in imperial or rebel. As far as opposing factions go.. if its consider an Imp Cantina they may not want rebels to be able to register. I seriously doubt I'll be able to get them to back off on that one, but I'm pretty sure I can argue the neutrals case well enough to get that changed. As well as Rebels or Imps being able to register in neutral cantina's.
If you want to help me argue the case for opposing faction then start putting arguements on this thread as to why you think along the lines of the GCW a Rebel should be able to register in an Imperial Cantina and vice versa. The arguement is going to need to make sense to the GCW and RP of the game so keep it along those lines. Arguements about it making things more difficult for everyone and nobody wants it aren't going to carry any weight.
/agree 100%
I didn't know when I placed it that it took faction into consideration. I was a covert reb and am now neutral, I can't even register in my own cantina! Ugh....it would have been nice if a pop up window came up when placing warning me about it. Or a option on the structure terminal would be nice. As for opposite factions registering, I know some people like to hang out in the other faction's cantinas to act as information gatherers. If they are covert the other faction isn't supposed to know it so why not let them register? But if they are overt then I say no registering in a opposite faction alligned cantina.
Lunah75 wrote:/agree 100%
I was a covert reb and am now neutral, I can't even register in my own cantina!
OK now that is just effing stupid. The developers need to get rid of this "feature."
C
Okay, here are my reasons:
1) Making Registration a Faction Issue Will Destroy The Concept of "Covertness": The thing about coverts is that they are able to function as neutrals unless found out by actively participating in the GCW, or found out via covert detector. If a city wishes to discourage those of a particular faction from using the facility, they can always put a covert detector inside the cantina. I have seen it done, and see nothing wrong with this practice. Dancing in the cantina is hardly what I would call participating in the GCW. If the developers wanted entertainment to be a participation in the GCW, they would make buffing or servicing an overt character warrant a TEF. Since they have not, it seems reasonable to assume that the developers do not consider entertainment a participation in the GCW. Now if one were to dance in a cantina OVERT, then I can understand the argument that they should not be able to register in a cantina placed by a member of an opposing faction. However, it does not seem reasonable to me why an individual who is covert should have their gameplay limited in the same sense as an overt would, when a covert is already limited as to their participation in the GCW. The developers in the recent feature concerning the player demographics argued that they need to find more ways to encourage Covert Imperial characters. Making registration a faction issue will only DISCOURAGE covertness, ESPECIALLY for Imperial players, because it will limit the options an outnumbered Imperial dancer may have to practice their profession, save the "safe" Imperial cities, where they might as well dance overt.
2) Making Registration a Faction Issue Makes the World Map Useless: The World Map is something that is a tool for ALL players, regardless of faction, to better plan and facilitate gameplay. By looking at the world map, one does not see any indication of faction affiliation. Therefore, why should registration, a feature of the world map, be a faction issue? With ten to twenty cities per map, and potentially more in the future, why should either a dancer or a musician waste money to go to a place with a vaccant cantina only to discover that they are unable to register in the cantina? What about the individual in the field who passes a player city by because of the moon icon, when in reality there is qualified staff there that may help them? Instead of facilitating smart gameplay, the world map hinders smart gameplay, which makes examining the world map useless as a planning tool, thereby harming the efficient use of one's online time. Its hard enough to convince my fellow entertainers to register and for patrons to examine the world map. Now, even the utility of this once useful tool has been complicated to the point of uselessness because of the faction issue.
3) It Thrusts Cities That Want to Stay Out of the Faction Wars Into the Faction Wars: Many cities I know welcome players of all factions, and this hurts them too. What shall we say of a city who has a cantina placed by a Rebel who works out an arrangement with three Imperialdancer residentsto keep the cantina staffed? Are we to say that the cantina owner must "import" workers just to register this or her cantina, when there are qualified residents already in the city? Must a city which allows their residents to be whatever faction they wish have to place three structures to keep a cantina fully staffed? It therefore limits the viability of player cities actually working in the manner of by which the cities themselves have originally invisioned themselves, thereby limiting their gameplay experience.
4) It Limits the Economic Viability of an Economically Vulnerable Class in a Way No Other Class is Vulnerable: Doctors can buff anywhere, regardless of faction. It is true that doctors cannot heal an overt without getting a TEF, but since doctors via droid can heal anywhere, I really don't see this as a problem as much as it is for us. Entertainers can only heal battle fatiuge in a cantina or theatre, and can only buff within city limits in said structures, save a private home, that cannot be registered. Vendors from merchants are able to register their vendors in any structure, be it a home, tent, or faction structure (and I'm not quite sure what the status of merchants placing vendors in faction structures may be, but they or someone of their faction can always place a 1 lot tent, and host as many vendors as they see fit), and are able to service patrons with their vendor even when logged off. A dancer may only service patrons when logged on, within certain structures, for no up front enforceable payment, and may only advertise their services through the registration command within two structures of public accomodation within a city. The way registration stands now, further limits the entertainer's ability to provide service to those who need it, and limits the ability of those who need such service in a way that adds nothing to the efficiency or viability of player decisions in this area. For example, let us say that an Imperialchef needs a dancer to staff their venue, but the only dancers that are free and online are Rebels. Does this mean that the chef mustsuffer an unregistered cantina simply because dancers of his or her faction were not online at the time? Conversley,must the Rebel dancer who goes where he or she is needed forgo potential tipping customers by remaining oblivious to the greater community, simply because the chef who wants her there is Imperial? Also, what about missions? Will a dancer who is on a mission to a cantina not of his or her affiliation be unable to register while satisfying the requirements of the mission? It will make missions, even with an increeased payout, unattractive to the very entertainers who take them on.
5) It Limits the Freedom of Players to Enjoy the Game in the Way that They Wish, Destroys Online Friendships, and Discourages Roleplay: Many players had no idea that their placed cantina was going to have faction implications. I as a dancer have made friends on both sides of the GCW. Many of us are in the same boat, and as we are the social class, I do not see why our job should force a limitation on our sociability. Therefore, what am I to tell a friend who sets down a cantina in a town and wishes me to staff it for a night? Am I to tell her, "I wish I could, but I'd be doing yourself and myself an injustice by doing so, because we are of different factions and I cannot register?" It is a potential account cancelling issue to reshape the entertainer class into something where faction-even in a covert state-has social interaction encumbrences associated with it. Also, it will discourage roleplaying elements that many of us have had fun with for weeks, such as "meet the Imperial informant in Coronet...her name is Sirii." By forcing the entertainer class to have penalties for faction affiliation will make these elements cumbersome in a way that it hasn't before, making mutual player generated content more difficult to implement by a needless inconvenience.
6) There are Many Ways, Both Existing and Potential, to Make a Cantina That Wants to be a Faction-Only Structure Into a Faction-Only Structure: I am not unsympathetic to the need of some cantinas to be faction-only structures. However, the registration system in its current form is not the way to do it. As I said before, many cantinas that wish to be faction-specific have placed covert detectors in the cantina. Also, there is the ability of a cantina owner to remove an individual from the entry list who is a potential security risk. Although the militia powers have been curtailed at this time, a militia may also choose a /cityban or /citywarn option to remove either those who are giving service, or those who are receiving service. Additional means of keeping the cantina a faction-only structure can also be created to satisfy these needs, such as an option on the building terminal to allow faction-only service in the cantina, or to disalow the registration of those of an opposing faction. However, such decisions should be an option to the individual cantina owner, and the city in which the cantina is placed. It should NOT be a decision that is forced upon a city or cantina owner due to the mechanics of the game.
7) It Hinders the Development of Player Cities, and Hinders the Distribution of Entertainment Resources to Player Cities: I may have made this point before, but I'll make it again, because its so important. With the caps raised, we have the potential to have 260 player cities, as well as NPC cities. The ONLY way we can encourage the distribution of what entertainment talent we have available is through the registration system to be as accessable and unencumbered as possible. In fact, I would like to see the expansion of the registration system to include basic profession entertainers and medics, but that's a post for another time. Since we are in what the development team calls a "player driven economy," it seems only fair that the players, not the development team, should have the tools available to them to run their professions the way that they must in order to ensure a stable system where goods and services are exchanged for everyone's benefit. Of course, choices have to be made, such as "we are a Rebel City, but we need the services of the Imperial Entertainer to register," or, "we are a Rebel City, and we will wait however long it takes to find a Rebel entertainer." However, such is life, and thus, I encourage every move by the developers to encourage options, and not discourage options in this area. Faction-limited registration only makes these decisions needlessly cumbersome, when there are much richer and more inclusive options that are potentially available. Therefore, I urge the following changes:
1) Give the cantina owner, and/or the city management the option to make the cantina open or closed for to registration from different faction members.
2) Give the dancer or musician the ability to advertise their service on the world map in whatever cantina they choose, unless otherwise disallowed by the cantina owner and/or city.
3) Allow a factioned dancer or musician to deed a cantina as a faction neutral structure, or allow them to open up registration to all members of a class.
4) Associate faction-only structures with an icon on the world map to better inform dancers and musicians that they will not be allowed to register there, so that they do not waste time and travel expenses to discover later that their journey was for naught.
Did this explain our case well enough, Ravenmist?
/cheer
Bravo you took everything I was thinking and wrote it eloquently on the board! Kudos to you, and please let them change this......................I refuse to rejoin the GCW just to register in MY own cantina. And yes we are one of those multi faction cities with dancers and musicians on both sides. 
Remember a few months back? Entertainers were given a faction perk. Healing is faster and buffs can be an additional 25%. But you need a faction aligned structure for that to work. So you're asking this to be taken out of cantinas just so you can register?
On the one hand, you got people saying "Make entertainers more involved in the GCW." The players get something. Now people are saying "Make entertainers less involved in the GCW."
The alternative you can do right now is just have someone neutral place the cantina.
However, a way to fix this without hurting those that want a faction aligned cantina is just to give the option to remove the faction alignment from an existing structure. (But make it one way so people can't just use it when it's convenient.)
Still, the ability to remove the faction alignment from any structure would fix this and be useful elsewhere. If people are so worried about showing faction, why aren't they raising a huge mess over harvesters which have been showing the owner's faction since day 1?
I'd like to see the faction perk be added to player cantinas actually. As well as the option to remove faction from the structure. I've spent a lot of time buffing rebels (as I'm now in a rebel guild and am rebel aligned myself) it would be nice to get more use out of the faction perk and get entertainers more involved.