Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
NJ62 wrote:
Coreena wrote:
Alissok wrote:
Interesting... The high end crafters on the Tarquinas board are very upset by the buff that gives a %10 boost to resources.
Yes, and I'm not sure its a good thing.
There are two possibilities:
a) Resource stats after buff still cap at 1000. Then everything over 910 is the same. So basicly you can reach the same result with worse quality stuff. This hurts those that spend a long time collecting, harvesting and buying high quality resources (basicly the top crafters).
b) Resource stats are not capped at 1000. Then who knows what really happens if someone uses resources where the stats are over 910 , and even the average is over 1000 after the buff.
I assume its version a)
I actually see this as a good thing. I realize that some crafters have the monopoly on the market because they have been around for 2 years and were there for the "godly spawn" of the best resource for each type that they need.
Crafters face a very serious problem if they are new and want to break into the market. Between the 2-year-old resources and the skill tapes, they cannot hope to compete with the entrenched dominant crafters on a server. This is a way for the newer crafters to break into the market without such a severe disadvantage as compared to the established crafters. This would encourage more crafters, which is a good thing, because it would drive down prices, and create more of a crafter community.
Just look at the astromech stats. Crafting is becoming unpopular, and tailoring is at the top of the list of popularity? Why is that? Because resource quality does not matter for tailors at all, so it is easy for new players to become tailors and in a short time start selling items. For other professions, it is a many-month process of tracking spawns, only to be outdone every single time by the lot baron with seemingly limitless resources churning out items by the crate in multiple factories.
I feel for the established crafters who have busted their heineys for 2 years getting the absolute best resources that they will lose their edge which they acquired by hard work. However, I truly believe that it is best for the economy to allow the newer players to break into the crafting game more easily.
They would still be superior, those who have the absolute best resources for the server, can get the 10% experiment buff instead of the resource buff ( or can get the assembly buff). Which means their product will still be superior.
Esharra wrote:
You are absolutely correct. I was not aware of that change when I originally posted but I am now and will edit my original (for about 6 months, my tailor who I've played since 9/03 has only been around for dressing myself and a few friends and band members..I haven't kept up). Hopefully they will consider more benefits for tailors. I'm not sure if an improvement in socket percentages is technically possible at this time. When we had the ideas thread going though, that was about the only thing suggested for tailorsthat the tailors felt was in their favor.
MeciniaLua wrote:
Esharra wrote:
ShazamVenesre wrote:
Wow !!
Not sure if it was a mistake but the chef doesn't have resource quality and the tailor does.
Resource quality is Very important to chefs..and fortunately they'll get it.
I left out the word resource from the first post of the list..I've edited it in.
The only item that tailors experiment on is the padding for Wookiee armor. While I don't believe it is a huge business for tailors, I understand that the quality of the padding is Very important to the armorsmiths who make the finished product. (I've only made the padding twice with my tailor for armorsmiths..but I really don't do that much tailoring outside of playing dress up)
This might be what it takes to get me to take my BE/Chef out of mothballs!
Message Edited by Esharra on 08-23-2005 06:01 AM
I hate to correct you, but us Tailors do not experiment on anything, experimentation on the padding was removed with the CU.
Sockets are messed up as it is.
You can get anywhere from 0-4 sockets on an amazing success ( same goes for great, good, success, marginal )
Its far more random than they tell us, though having a higher assembly does help, it doesn't guarentee 4 sockets .
MeciniaLua wrote:
They would still be superior, those who have the absolute best resources for the server, can get the 10% experiment buff instead of the resource buff (or can get the assembly buff). Which means their product will still be superior.
If I understand it right, it's an all-in-one package deal for one profession, not a choice of a resource buff -or- an experimentation buff. It's a resource and experimentation and whatever else buff all for one profession such as Armorsmith. (I feel like one of those commercial announcers: 'It's a floor polish!' 'No it's a sandwich spread.' 'Hey! You're both right! It's a floor polish AND a sandwich spread!') I think the players will not have to make a choice unless I'm mistaken.
MeciniaLua wrote:
They would still be superior, those who have the absolute best resources for the server, can get the 10% experiment buff instead of the resource buff ( or can get the assembly buff). Which means their product will still be superior.
Isn't it profession specific, meaning you get the chef buff and you recieve bonuses to xp, experimentation, assembly, and resources. I personally think that it should be broken up by the individual buffs and not by profession. That way, you can't have all of them and you only get the buff that fits what you are doing. That will make them WANTED and not NEEDED. If I'm hand-crafting, I get an experimentation bonus, grinding-xp bonus, preparing a factory run-resource bonus. Of course to do this the resource bonus needs to be NO MORE THAN 2%. If it is more it will be unbalanced and the must have buff. I believe that if it was done this way it will still make it useful to have. I'm really glad to see ents getting some love though.
Message Edited by LeviticusD on 08-23-2005 04:18 PM
A reduction in resource improvement would be ideal. A 5% drop at least. It would still make it useful, but not overpowering.
Just as long as the devs don't pull a "Crafters are out of scope of the entertainer buffs" statement.
Alright, I have a few things to say after reading all the posts. First of all, I love that we are getting these buffs - we will once again be able to invite people into our cantinas not only with a great show to provide them with, but also something that they will find useful once the show is over. Should be excellent, especially since it will not be AFKable.
I do understand some of the dilemma with the resource buffs -that people have worked hard and spent a lot of their hard-earned money on those excellentresources, but.. well, out with the old and in with the new, I guess. As a tailor, I don't have to worry about it. The high-end resources will still be superior, it's just that now some of the newer players can compete in business. Also, it's likely that resource prices will go up anyways and make the newer players still have a hard time getting good resources.
Next, I would like to comment on the Musician/Dancer buff differences. I liked how they were separated pre-CU - it wasn't difficult to remember which entertainer gave which buff. Now, however, there are a LOT more buffs. I think that people (particularly newbies) will be confused by the separate buffs and we'll end up with a lot of frustration trying to direct them to the right people. I also think that it is unfair to give the musicians both weaponsmith AND armorsmith buffs. Those professions are the richest crafters in the game and the ones with the greatest need for the buffs(debatably). Coreena's excellent idea for the equal system of buffs for dancers and musicians states that for master, you get Armorsmith and Weaponsmith -she knows they're the best ones (and I think we all do). Or at least, I'm assuming that's why they were the master buffs.
As a tailor, I'm disappointed that we didn't get anything. All the tailors know that the clothing assembly mod does not do anything. We don't experiment on anything. Our buff is.. well.. pointless. I think that possible buffs would be to give us extra colors in our palettes or even allow us to experiment to try and control the amount of sockets we get (some tailors do not like this idea at all, but I would love to have some kind of control over the sockets, as it is completely random right now as far as we can tell). The artisan buff will be good for the assembly mod, though, because some of our clothing uses the artisan skills and we can't get 4 sockets without having more artisan assembly skills than the domestic arts line.
As a dancer in response to Slick's asking the dancers what they thought about the props being our dancerbuff, I think it's very cool. I don't care about footloose2 and formal2, to be honest - I'd rather have flames in my hands.
Now for a few questions:1. Can you have a buff from a musician AND a dancer at the same time? What happens if a dancer and musician both try to buff someone at the same time?
Lastly, and slightly off-topic, I saw that they changed the wound healing mod to dancing enhancement or whatever, but what about battle fatigue?
"Music Wound Healing and Dance Wound Healing skill mod tapes should convert to Music and Dance Enhancement respectively. "
All my entertainer BE tissues are sitting in the dust 'cause they're useless. Not to mention the Exotic Dancer Leotard and other bf CAs. Are they going to change the bf mods - and if so, what to?
Yay! 
PoetDancer wrote:
What it all boils down to is, I don't want to play this game that is being given to us, nor do I trust the current administration of this game to do what it takes to make the play experience fun. This was my last straw. Which is why I canceled my subscription. And frankly, Chessak, if you hadn't of offered one of your endless retorts, I would be just fine just letting the whole matter drop.
Well it wasn't meant as a retort. I just don't understand, at all, what you were wanting or hoping for with these buffs. I know you were unhappy with the removal of BF, and I still am too, and still think it was ultimately a bad decision, but that ship has sailed. Given that, I am not clear on what you wanted or were expecting relative to what we have been given. You don't seem to like the way the system was designed, but I'm not clear on how you would design it otherwise.
C
I think this is an excellent compromise. Don't know about anyone else but I've noted a severe decline in the ability of players to communicate beyond "train plz" and "invite plz". Asking a simple question like "what skill are you ready to learn?" causes a 15 minute pause while their toon spins in a circle aimlessly and then gives the ultimate response of "train plz". Now we're going to have to explain a variety of buff options and then explain that buff A, C, and D are available from a musician while A, B, and E are from a dancer.
Coreena wrote:
Ok, just had an idea, let me know what you think.
As I said I'm not completely happy with the fact that the buffs are split again.
Right now it seems to be like this:
Musician - General, Artisan, Ent, Arch, DE, WS, SW, AS & Dancer
Dancer - General, Artisan, Ent, Chef, Tailor, BE, Merchant, ID & musician
Lets keep that like this till the novice boxes, then add new "professions" to the Dance Enhancement line.
Like this (illustrated at example of dancer, works for Musicians too, just with reversed skills)
Novice Entertainer: General, Artisan, Entertainer
Novice Dancer: Chef, Tailor, BE, Merchant, ID, Musician
Dance Enhancement 1: Dancer (yeah lets give us our own buff pretty early
Dance Enhancement 2: Architect
Dance Enhancement 3: Droid Eng
Dance Enhancement 4: Shipwright
Master Dancer: Armorsmith, Weaponsmith
The order of it can be changed, and the "double skill" given at another box (like Dancer+Architect in Dance Enhancement 1 or so)
For Musicians it would be the same just that they get the Dancer-buffs spread over their Enhancement line.
The effect would be that at Novice you can only buff parts, but a Double Novice can do all (but has to switch between music/dance to do so), and a Master Musician or Master Dancer can do every buff without switching.
Also make Masters buff faster than Novices, and Double Masters faster than single Masters.
Message Edited by Coreena on 08-23-200503:38 PM
Chessack wrote:
Well it wasn't meant as a retort. I just don't understand, at all, what you were wanting or hoping for with these buffs. I know you were unhappy with the removal of BF, and I still am too, and still think it was ultimately a bad decision, but that ship has sailed. Given that, I am not clear on what you wanted or were expecting relative to what we have been given. You don't seem to like the way the system was designed, but I'm not clear on how you would design it otherwise.
What I want is passivity, and transparency.
Passivity is the notion that our patrons are in charge of their own mechanics. As long as we are dancing, patrons should be able to get the things they go to the cantina to get, without any extra step.
Transparency is the notion that the art and the mechanics are one. If patrons are watching a dance, they should be able to get whatever they should be able to get from the dance. They shouldn't have to ask for a dancer to dance for them if the dancer is already dancing, just so their character can have the dance affect them.
What I would do to change this is allow the patron the ability to choose, and activate their own buff. Why ask us to do what we would do for them, anyway?
If our fear is AFK, there are much better ways to deal with them than this system of "park, and hope someone will need us."
The way the professions are delegated is good right now in my opinion.
BE's are REALLY going to need you if they want to make good tissues. Since their stats are dependant on OQ, PE and FL, making perfect tissues is not out of the question with an inspiration buff, and the whole medical side of it will depend greatly on it as well.
Chefs, well, any bonus is a good bonus for us. I don't really know why you would classify chef and not BE, as there are plenty more BE's than there are chefs.
Though I do agree with tailor, as they do not experiment on anything.
Musicians have WS, AS, SW and possibly DE (not sure how much they actually depend on experimenting, but I think its alot too, for all the modules)
They also have Architects. They don't need it for houses, furniture or factories, but it will be important for Harvesters.
Dancers get Chef and BE, without question those two will use the buffs.
As was stated Tailor doesn't get any benefit from those buffs at all. (correction: You benefit from the XP bonus if you're grinding... but I'd say that doesn't really count, all other buffs, also those from musicians have that component too, and more, and with tailer the "more" is missing)
Merchants... well, if they're Master it doesn't matter (don't need XP and can place all Vendors). Besides you can't just "get" Vendor XP when you choose to, its constant, so I'm not sure if the XP buff even works. And if they're not Master, it will matter when? About once every 5 months when they plan to place a new vendor but can't do that yet but missing only one (or perhaps two) boxes, for that vendor. I'm not sure if the ability to dress your vendors is bound to the Hiring 4 skillbox itself or the Hiring skill and can be achived at Hiring 3 with the buff. Anyway my point is, for merchants this buff is not really very useful. (Again its XP, plus a very little "more", but just a tiny "more" that will be used very rarely
And IDs... well sure 50 charges instead of 20 are nice... but really, its won't put them out of business if they can only do 20. You'll perhaps get that buff if you're a dancer yourself (and we can selfbuff), or a friendly dancer friend is in your group and you ask for a quick buff.
So lets count:
Musicians have 4 profs where the buff is absolutely required, and 1 where it matters for some of their products. No profs where its useless (unless I was mistaken about DE, please correct me then).
Dancers have 2 where its necessary, 2 where its almost useless, and 1 where it doesn't do anything.
I'd say, swap AS or WS with Tailor and its about balanced.
Sorry don't want to steal anything here from my musician friends, so don't be angry with me