Dancer Archive
Thread: Entertainer NPC's... Your Thoughts?
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:42 pm
#79
Oqua wrote:
Sweetness...
Then take your own advice.
Your comment about helping others wasn't meant in the best of light...neither was the comment about the "fruity entertainers".
I play mostly with combatants, if the entertainer professions were more useful within PvP and the GCW my char would be a dancer.
Because I play mostly with combatants I get to hear all the negativity about entertainers. The resentment the name calling, all of it.
If I choose to be dancer again on this server I would rather they think of my profession as useful within PvP, GCW and game in general. I dont feel working towards that deserves such negativity.
Oqua
Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:54 pm
#80
I am not "fighting" you.
What I am fighting is the "reason" as to why you are proposing this.
To placate what you yourself called the "leet" mentality.
Sorry, but no.
The only thing I didn't like is what I already stated, the way you worded your idea. I don't know if you meant to, but you sort of had a derrogatory/argumentative tone in it.
Again, my concern with thevid disc (or othercompromises)is mainly for the up and coming people in the game...which I already stated in a previous post on this thread.
Can you imagine if enough people complained about not finding a chanterfor KEI (clarity 3) on EQ and wanted the implentation of NPC's for that? Or if people wanted an NPC at each zone for convenient rezzing of your corpse, should a cleric not be around?
That is a very popular MMORPG...been around for a few years and looks like it will be around for a bit more..and I have never seen anyone seriously discussing something like this for that game. And yes, there are many power gamers there too.
Oqua
Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:57 pm
#81
You are speaking of your own personal experience, as I am of mine. How does yours negate my own?
Exactly!
So when someone says they haven't heard about anyone asking for NPC medics to heal, please don't discount it with saying "doctors aren't hard to find".
That may be your findings, but I think there are just as many that can say that isn't the case with their own experiences.
I only use my own experience to show you that hey, just because you find it easy to find a doctor, maybe the rest of us don't...there are always two sides to the coin, yes? 
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:12 pm
#82
Oqua wrote:
I am not "fighting" you.
What I am fighting is the "reason" as to why you are proposing this.
My reason for giving this proposition some thought (it was not my proposal) is the development team is not going through with the recursive macro nerf (as stated here http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=48478 ) for a few reasons, one is because of the availability problem with entertainers many players will face after the hologrind is over.
This is one of the reasons they are holding it off until they figure out how to solve these issues it seems.
The only thing I didn't like is what I already stated, the way you worded your idea. I don't know if you meant to, but you sort of had a derrogatory/argumentative tone in it.
I had an argumentitive tone because I am arguing a point, if you or anyone else felt I agreed with the comments made by many combatant players I apologize.
Again, my concern with thevid disc (or othercompromises)is mainly for the up and coming people in the game...which I already stated in a previous post on this thread.
Can you imagine if enough people complained about not finding a chanterfor KEI (clarity 3) on EQ and wanted the implentation of NPC's for that? Or if people wanted an NPC at each zone for convenient rezzing of your corpse, should a cleric not be around?
The difference is the two examples are a luxury for the most part in those games. The way this game was designed is for combatants to have to see an entertainer on a regular basis so their normal play is not disrupted with a damage decrease to their profession. Entertainer Buffs (like C4 or res's) are a different issue.
Not to mention corpse retrieval was made easier later in EQ(graveyards) as well as experience loss lowered without a res.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-07-2004 07:15 PM
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:14 pm
#83
No amount of personal experience can make up the fact that there will be more players(with medic)able to heal someone elses wounds than therewill beplayers to heal someones BF after the hologrind is over.
Oqua wrote:
So when someone says they haven't heard about anyone asking for NPC medics to heal, please don't discount it with saying "doctors aren't hard to find".
That may be your findings, but I think there are just as many that can say that isn't the case with their own experiences.
I only use my own experience to show you that hey, just because you find it easy to find a doctor, maybe the rest of us don't...there are always two sides to the coin, yes?
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:17 pm
#84
And I addressed that with an idea, and then you said, I dont want to cater to anyone,instead of talking about it more
Oqua wrote:
Again, my concern with thevid disc (or othercompromises)is mainly for the up and coming people in the game...which I already stated in a previous post on this thread.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-07-2004 07:23 PM
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:26 pm
#85
Dreamland wrote:
PistolDance wrote:
cool, make sure you do it with a Jedi to assist them in the numders as well as with only padded armor on to assist with the armor nerf %.
First of all, there is no armor nerf in place, nor was there for you at any time you were hunting, But to be fair i did a comparison, The first mission i did in my composite armor, the second i did without any armor at all. I keeping it fair i also refrained from using any of my area attacks(note i could have done the lairs in about a quarter of the time if i had used area attack.)
Here are my results.
After 2 gurk lairs i have 33 BF i got 15 on the first one with armor, and 18 on the second without armor. SO how is it you managed to get 600 bf from 3 of these bad boys? and before you say you didnt say that, yes you did i quoted it above.
I have ZERO reduction in my damage, my gameplay is totaly unafected, and i have NO need to see an entertainer. bythe mathit would take 18 gurk missions for me to get 600 bf, it took me about 20 minutes to do these which is admitedly long for me but i didnt use areas and they were in different directions, 18 *20 = 360, that is 6 hours and i could probably do far more missions in that time if i was realy trying hard and using areas.
So wheres the baqttle fatigue?? i htought it was cripling in 2 hours??
It's not, its as i said, you are exagerating it horibly to suit your own purposes.
What profession are you It all depends on how long it takes you to kill the beast you see
How long does the beast beat on you until you drop it?
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-07-2004 07:27 PM
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:33 pm
#86
Dreamland wrote:
It's not, its as i said, you are exagerating it horibly to suit your own purposes.
And please before you start throwing out that I am exagerating and how horrible it is, refer to your numerous posts on how easy it is for Jedi to heal their own BF.
Every combatant has a differnt template and every combatant arent equally skilled in that template.
Now instead of trying trying to see if im a liar why not deal with the problem of the looping macro not being fixed until the issues they came up with are taken care of.
If you want the looping to stop so bad, you should be coming up with ideas or adding ot others' to help the situation instead of this little witch hunt you are going onconcerning me.
The developers say its going to be a problem, if you want to argue all day with them about it then do so. Id like to solve the problem they see that is holding up fixing entertainer.
Thats why I am posting on this thread, why are you?
Dreamland
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:34 pm
#87
What profession are you
How long does the beast beat on you until you drop it?
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-07-2004 07:27 PM
Regardless of how long it takes me milandra you would have to be incredibly underpowered for the mission to get 600 bf from 2 of them. In fact i realy dont believe you could unless you were a novice brawler or something and stood there and let them beat on you for 2 hours in 80% comp. You like to quote the armor nerf? keep in mind that goes with the combat balance and after that NOBODY will be soloing red mobs alone. The days of getting beat on for an hour in 80% armor will be OVER
I have done almost every combat profession milandra and you know what battle fatigue has not been a problem to me
Yes this is an easy mission to me, but i can go do very hard missions for me withthe sameresults, it takes me 30 minutes to drop a krayt dragon with help from a master rifleman, and i do not get 600 bf from doing so.
Oqua
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:35 pm
#88
For someone who doesn't want there to be alot of negativity, you sure seem to be arguing every point...not just with me, but with everyone who responds to you with whatever hesitation they have about the things that are being proposed.
As to the medic/entertainer ratio? What hard numbers are there to prove that? Things from when the game first came out? Please...again..you are pushing your own experiences as fact, yet tell people not to do the same when they say they have had a different encounter in game. If you can't see that, then reread your text...for I am not going to go around in circles with you, which is what you seem to want to do.
And in response to the EQ comparison I made, sorry but that is a function of that class. What is the function of an entertainer? By your own admission, it was to heal BF (one of them). Yes graveyards were created, but I don't know how many times I had to try and find a cleric, and then camp so as not to run out my rez timer. That interrupted my game play. Where was my cleric/rez bot then? If you played EQ (which it sounds like you did) then you know that was in effect for quite a bit. It has been a year since I played EQ, but even with xp loss lessened, at the high lvls, most would agree a rez was what you wanted.
As one who has walked both paths (entertainer/combat) I would think you would try and enlighten them to not fall into that "leet" dude mentality instead of just seeing it as "inevitable".
Again...I don't wish to fight you on anything. People asked for an opinion on NPC healers and then someone suggested Vid disc for healing. What I don't want is a compromise dished out that will hurt us in the long run...just to placate those that have forgotten how it was before buffs and hologrinding. These weren't there from the onset, so why should we act like they have been?
I just hope the devs let us ride this one out and see what happens before trying to "fix" something that they don't even know is going to "break" anyone or anything.
This isn't even implemented yet and people are already saying horrid things about entertainers (from your own admission), so what will change?
Stat migration didn't "break the game" when it was given to ID's (which is what many leet gamers said they needed to do for different hunting situations I believe).
This is my last post on the subject...please forgive me if I retire for the evening, as much as I love the debate, I have the flu and need to rest
You have a nice night too.
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:39 pm
#89
Oqua wrote:
For someone who doesn't want there to be alot of negativity, you sure seem to be arguing every point...not just with me, but with everyone who responds to you with whatever hesitation they have about the things that are being proposed.
How is me arguing points and getting new ideas from others about proposed changes to the system in order to make the loop nerf go through negative? You offered me a reason you didnt like the droid idea, I proposed a possibility that might quench that problem. I dont see how Ive been negative towards your ideas at all.
This isn't even implemented yet and people are already saying horrid things about entertainers (from your own admission), so what will change?
They have been saying those things before the hologrind was even implemented.
Dreamland
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:40 pm
#90
PistolDance wrote:
And please before you start throwing out that I am exagerating and how horrible it is, refer to your numerous posts on how easy it is for Jedi to heal their own BF.
Every combatant has a differnt template and every combatant arent equally skilled in that template.
Now instead of trying trying to see if im a liar why not deal with the problem of the looping macro not being fixed until the issues they came up with are taken care of.
If you want the looping to stop so bad, you should be coming up with ideas or adding ot others' to help the situation instead of this little witch hunt you are going onconcerning me.
The developers say its going to be a problem, if you want to argue all day with them about it then do so. Id like to solve the problem they see that is holding up fixing entertainer.
Thats why I am posting on this thread, why are you?
Well you know what, I don't agree that its going to be a problem, with you or the developers.
Point of fact it plain out INSULTS me when i hear people whine and snivel that they will never be able to find an entertainer. MAny people whined and sniveled that they wouldnt be able to find an image designer to stat migrate, but they gave them thier fix anyway, and you know what you CAN find an image designer to stat migrate.
In addition, The title of the thread is Enterteainer NPC's... Your thoughts? I am presenting MY THOUGHTS. So stop with your incinuations that im posting for an invalid reason.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 08-07-2004 07:43 PM
PistolDance
Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:42 pm
#91
Dreamland wrote:
Yes this is an easy mission to me, but i can go do very hard missions for me withthe sameresults, it takes me 30 minutes to drop a krayt dragon with help from a master rifleman, and i do not get 600 bf from doing so.
A krayt dragon or Kimo would be comparable if you added the mind wounds you get from the fight as well as the BF.
If you fought 5 of either you would need healing, 1 kimo without mind buffs has the possibility of blackbar.
Message Edited by PistolDance on 08-07-2004 07:45 PM