Dancer Archive
Thread: Dance Pole
a classic musical, and one of the most well known dancers of all time.. If somebody was to call him a stripper for that scene, I'd worry about lynch-mobs
quoting http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/singing.html
The film is above all lighthearted and happy. The three stars--Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor and 19-year-old Debbie Reynolds--must have rehearsed endlessly for their dance numbers, which involve alarming acrobatics, but in performance they're giddy with joy. Kelly's soaking-wet ``Singin' in the Rain'' dance number is ``the single most memorable dance number on film,'' Peter Wollen wrote in a British Film Institute monograph.
...a film that placed 10th on the American Film Institute list of 100 great films, and was voted the fourth greatest film of all time in the Sight & Sound poll.
He dances with the umbrella, swings from a lamppost, has one foot on the curb and the other in the gutter, and in the scene's high point, simply jumps up and down in a rain puddle.
And that's just 1 famous example
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But I don't think that's the sort of pole people want to carry around. The type of poles being requested are the ones you see in strip clubs. Yes, the cantina in (the movie)Star Wars might beperceived as being a sleazy place and if they had dance poles, I'd have to agree they belong there.
I just really don't like the view we as dancers get from the community as a whole. I truly don't. I joined the dancing profession as a way to help my husband yes, but also to dance. I love watching my little lady dance. That is one reason I wiill never drop my Master Dancer status, because I love it too much.
Now, you may not agree with me, but I don't like being lumped into either one of two catagories: The person who afk'ed their way through it and therefore shouldn't even have a name, or the person who uses her dancer status as a way to take part in a big cyber chat room. I know many of you will say thats not how it is, but I have been slapped in the face too many times by other peoples actions in game, referring to me as one of the two.
I want props. I think we need something, along with different and new dances. I just don't want something that is going to further instill in peoples minds that "yes! aha! I knew you all were strippers". No, not being a prude. Yes, if you want to do things I don't have to do them...this I do know. But in the same breath that most of you all say "Afk'ers give us a bad name...stop it", can't you see this has the possibility of doing that too?
That is all I am saying from this and my previous post. Nothing more and nothing less. If you don't agree with me that is all fine and dandy, more power to you. Just please lets think how this will affect the whole of the community and the view that many have of us already.
I wanted to address the lady who wrote this. I think there have been a lot of sensible and practical people that have come out stating that "sleaze" is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm on Kettemoor and I've danced since the beginning too, like many of you. I have always been concerned with the state of professionalism of the dancing community on my server. I opened the first roleplayed cantina to get out of the public cantinas as soon as possible and give dancers a place where they never had to worry about afk or abusive patrons and was very successful with it. I worked on a dance company for hire that did phenomenal work. From formal balls in gowns and sedate formal routines to singing in pirate dens of dubious reputation with a bit of raunchiness. Always with routines, songs, etc. No matter what we did it was professional. I alwaysthought of how to encourage those still in the public cantinas or those trying to learn dancing to consider it more professionally. Come to practices, take real time to practice,have different level of costumes that suited a theme or dance, be creative. Make sure negotiations with patrons include clear understandings and expectations, treat patrons and dancers with respect and demand the same or leave.
One must first remember this, you can control your actions and your thoughts but you cannot control those of other people. No matter how hard you try or how much you wish it. Influence or not, if there were no fleshwraps or leotards (and there weren't the first month of the game)or hotpants in there would still be peoplecalling or assuming dancers were women/men of ill repute. The people who do so are NOT the type of thoughtful philosophical people to be swayed by a different set of clothes. If there were no cybering in the game (probably next to impossible in any game where people gather) there would still be people "assuming" or "expecting" it. If you have any social class at all you will create a division between those that value such things and those that do not. "Grinding" and AFKing has always been in this game, holograms just stepped it up with an influx of people normally avoiding the social arena.
At the same time there have always been alternatives. Dancers could as a group go to theatres and hotels or private venues where abuse is controlled, lessened or non-existant. They could have a complete, social, fulfilling, professional entertainment experience where they never have to deal with public cantinas. I know, I've done it for months and many other entertainers have.too. You are responsible for creating your own roleplay you are also responsible as an entertainer for adding to your own entertainment community. If you know that people think of entertainers as s**** and treat them abusively you change that by your own actions, how you dance, how you socialize with people, where you socialize with people and how you entertain and those people who might be swayed will be. You will never sway them all but you will give them alternatives and if you advertise it right it can be a powerful move in its own right. Adding a prop like a pole might well reinforce in people's mind the view of entertainers as virtual strippers (those more inclined to think that anyway)but what YOU as an entertainer do with a pole or how you react to the pole in your community will affect a change or give a different perspective with how the community feels.
You will be far more successful changing people's attitudes by addressing what the matter is and turning it into something new for them to think about then to deny them new avenues of thought or contradiction and allowing them to wallow in their current state of depravity. In fact bringing something like a symbol often associated with sexualized venues and finding ways to use it that is tasteful and then making THAT use normal in your entertainment community will address the issue of entertainer reputations more than your current stand of denial or nothing. If you take a pole and make it just another prop it desexualizes it, allows a new debate to discuss things, and gives an outlet for creativity which might actually help your cause celebre.
At least something for moralists to consider, hmmm? Practical ethics are the only ones that really matter at this level of community.
I was at an event this weekend, and about 8 Master Dancers and a few Master Musicians showed up (It's been so long since I've danced with LIVE dancers! It was great! ). Of course, we all ended up with items in our hands to avoid falling: swords, staves, guns, etc.
One dancer refused to, mentioning that event he staves and swords weren't good enough props. I mentioned this thread, that we wanted props to dance with. The fans, ribbons, etc.
They went crazy for the idea! Even if dance poles gets added to the nono list, at least I think everyone can agree that handheld props are a go for dancers
My viewpoints on all of this:
If you think dance poles are sleazy, don't use them. You can't stop anyone from thinking how they are going to think, or saying what they are going to say. The key is to have enough self worth to realize that the person thinking or saying those things is an idiot, and then you can laugh at them and know you are better than they are.
And, for those who want to cyber, let them. It's their style of gameplay. And, I'm sure that sex exists in the Star Wars universe, so it's completely in character.
We do have tools at our command such as /denyservice and /ignore, so you don't have to deal with it if it really becomes bothersome. Personally, I'd rather deal with it because I shamelessly admit that I get kicks out verbal sparring with people who do this sort of thing because I'm generally much better at it than they are...whether it comes to harassment or homophobia, or anything of that nature.
Also, it's important to note that people really shouldn't try to restrict other people's fun. I mean, if you don't like the dance pole idea, it's not really your place to tell people they can't have fun with it. I would love a dance pole, and I would like more props. Anything to make our dance profession have more tools and more options for entertainment. Some people do an awesome job at entertaining. I'm amazed with this game sometimes because, despite it's emphasis on fighting and levelling, there is a core group of people that really love the social entertainment aspect of it. And, I have been to several actual shows on my server and have been wowed at what people can come up with. The social aspect of this game has become more than just a chatroom, unlike what happens to the social aspect of many other online games. Actual performances, and more tools for these performances are always a good thing, IMO.
And, finally, as for the concern about graphics when it comes to ribbons and such, I don't see why they can't do that. This game is already graphically amazing. As someone else mentioned, if they can have graphics as they do for melee combatants, and movements already for flourishes, and sparkles already for techniques and fireworks, I see no reason why they can't have certain ribbon movements added into the game. It's just a matter of the devs actually putting it in. And, nevermind the fact that I would prefer that a master dancer NEVER fall in the first place without a prop, it sure would be nice to be able to hold something else besides a weapon.
Spudsin wrote:
Gene Kelly, "Singin' in the Rain" (1952), uses a pole (streetlight) as a dance prop
a classic musical, and one of the most well known dancers of all time.. If somebody was to call him a stripper for that scene, I'd worry about lynch-mobs
quoting http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/singing.html
The film is above all lighthearted and happy. The three stars--Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor and 19-year-old Debbie Reynolds--must have rehearsed endlessly for their dance numbers, which involve alarming acrobatics, but in performance they're giddy with joy. Kelly's soaking-wet ``Singin' in the Rain'' dance number is ``the single most memorable dance number on film,'' Peter Wollen wrote in a British Film Institute monograph.
...a film that placed 10th on the American Film Institute list of 100 great films, and was voted the fourth greatest film of all time in the Sight & Sound poll.
He dances with the umbrella, swings from a lamppost, has one foot on the curb and the other in the gutter, and in the scene's high point, simply jumps up and down in a rain puddle.
And that's just 1 famous example
QFE
LeBob wrote:
Spudsin wrote:
Gene Kelly, "Singin' in the Rain" (1952), uses a pole (streetlight) as a dance prop
a classic musical, and one of the most well known dancers of all time.. If somebody was to call him a stripper for that scene, I'd worry about lynch-mobs
quoting http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/singing.html
The film is above all lighthearted and happy. The three stars--Gene Kelly, Donald O'Connor and 19-year-old Debbie Reynolds--must have rehearsed endlessly for their dance numbers, which involve alarming acrobatics, but in performance they're giddy with joy. Kelly's soaking-wet ``Singin' in the Rain'' dance number is ``the single most memorable dance number on film,'' Peter Wollen wrote in a British Film Institute monograph.
...a film that placed 10th on the American Film Institute list of 100 great films, and was voted the fourth greatest film of all time in the Sight & Sound poll.
He dances with the umbrella, swings from a lamppost, has one foot on the curb and the other in the gutter, and in the scene's high point, simply jumps up and down in a rain puddle.
And that's just 1 famous example
QFE
aw, I think this might be the dancer forum's first QFE! *sniff*
Way to make a thread that keeps on kicking LeBob! 
I think I'm going to pull out all the actual items suggested and stick them in a new list thread. I'd like to see all of them sitting side by side and this thread has some great ones.
