Dancer Archive
Thread: Combat Balance Issues for Dancer: Ent Healing, Bards, and our Future in the Game
Universal Fatigue is a GREAT idea!
ANY profession should get sick and tired of what they're doing day after day. I'm a costume designer in the real world...and I can tell you "crafting" costumes for 16-18 hours a day getting a show ready makes me loopy! By the time the show is ready to open...I've got a MONSTER case of BF in MY mind pool! And...what do I do to get rid of it? Why...I go to my local "Cantina" and have some fun!
I think this is also a good justification for ENT's NOT being able to heal their own BF. The actors and singers and dancers that I know don't "perform" for themselves to get over the grinding boredom of what they do. They're sitting right beside me in the "Cantina" watching OTHER people entertain THEM!
I strongly support Universal Fatigue. I think it makes the game more realistic, gives ENT's a stronger role in the game, and would help to balance the game better for everyone!
Cha
PoetDancer wrote:
What effect will the universal fatiuge have? I mean, BF now only has to do with medic abilities, which an individual crafting for hours just plain could care less about. So unless the idea of fatiuge is expanded to include other ill effects, I really don't see the point other than an admittance that we have no place, so the developers would have to fabricate a place for us. We do not need something expanded just to give us something to do. That will only create resentment, and put even more pressure on an already understaffed class.
Not quite sure what you mean about bf only having to do with medic abilities. Do you mean that it only affects a medics ability to heal? If so I haven't noticed that myself. Not the bf. I've only noticed that affected by the strength of the pack or how much mind you have ( as in full blue bar or does it have alot of white on that bar)(sorry! i'm tired and can't remember the right term atm!:smileyvery-happy
I am no expert however, so it does effect it, please feel free to correct me.
Expanding bf to affect other areasis the idea, I think. Having it effect crafters who craft for hours would be ok (such as afkers grinding the prof maybe?) but not if they've only done it for a short amount of time. I wouldn't have complained when I was grinding weaponsmith. I'm a master dancer, master pistoleer, novice medic, and scout 0/0/4/0. Bf doesn't affect me unless I go get buffed and then only at 250 or more. Even at 400 it doesn't affect my performance while hunting. I think it should and Ithink it should affect buffs a lot sooner. Ever see a soldier come in from the field after combat in rl? Personal xp there and believe me, it can sometimes come on alot sooner(even thought they'll try to cover it up)than it seems to here so why not make it affect it abilities on the whole and buffs sooner? Maybe pvp hits harder than hunting does? I don't know. Just a thought.
I still think it's a decent enough idea but just my humble opinion.
Still love this thread!
Well there are two sides to this problem of battle fatigue.
Current battle fatigue is only acquired through combat. I've noticed that certain types of combat (melee, for example) produce more BF than others. The effect that battle fatigue currently has is it diminishes the ability of the player to be healed or enhanced. So if I have 400 BF, a medic healing me would have to use more stims to get my bars full, because his medicine would be less effective on me. It has nothing to do with HIS battle fatigue, only my own. If a doctor was buffing me, and usually gave 2100 buffs, my buffs might only be 1900-2000 because of MY battle fatigue.
So what is it that we want?
Option 1. Battle fatigue continues to be a combat-only problem, but affects more than just the "healability/buffability" of a character. Perhaps with higher battle fatigue, a combatant misses more often, hits for lower damage, or hits slower.
Option 2. Battle fatigue is expanded to general fatigue, affecting all professions, such as crafters after a lengthy crafting session. Effects unknown, but one would assume that making it like BF is now (only affects healing/enhance rate) would not be useful, since most non-combat professions are not wounded in the course of their activities, nor do they need buffs to perform them. So general fatigue would need to affect their success rate, or some other variable.
Option 3. Something else? Some combination of the above? None of the above? Status quo?
I think at the very least that option 1 would give us more of a role, since as it is now a lot of players simply ignore their battle fatigue until a doctor giving them buffs FORCES them to do something about it. However, both options 1 and 2 would probably cause some resentment among the non-entertainer player base.
Just look at what the Image Designers are dealing with now. After the mini-publish players won't be able to migrate their own stats anymore, they'll have to seek out an Image Designer to do it for them (though on the positive side, it will take only 10 minutes and not several days to take effect). This is probably good for the game in the long run, but in the short run IDs are going to get a lot of flack and resentment.
Sultrina wrote:
2. Do allow droids to be called in cantina's while I apriciate the lack of rancors on my dance floor these days, the addition of the entertainer bots along with the ideas presented here would point tword droids being apropriate in cantinas (dancers do realize that we will probly see a rash of laoder bots in the cantina, but I belive they can be brought inside the cantina now)
CassieDancer wrote:
I call my droid to heal people all the time in the Cantina on Cilastra. Doesn't it work on other servers?
I believe that droids are not callable in NPC Cantinas, but are callable in Player Cantinas. At least, that's the way I've found it so far.
ArgentWulf wrote:
Sounds like a Catch-22. If we danced and got fatigue we would have to find another dancer to watch and cure it. I think the current action expenditure is quite sufficient. I dislike the idea of general fatigue for everyone. Someone stated it before and I agree, it will only get more profs who hate our presence.
I agree Lei - the idea of general fatigue gives me a really bad feeling. It will certainly force more people into the cantinas, but I dont think it willchange the underlying problems of our profession. The only thing I'm pretty sure it willaccomplish is more resentment. I know I'd be.
Groovymarlin wrote:
Well there are two sides to this problem of battle fatigue.
Current battle fatigue is only acquired through combat. I've noticed that certain types of combat (melee, for example) produce more BF than others. The effect that battle fatigue currently has is it diminishes the ability of the player to be healed or enhanced. So if I have 400 BF, a medic healing me would have to use more stims to get my bars full, because his medicine would be less effective on me. It has nothing to do with HIS battle fatigue, only my own. If a doctor was buffing me, and usually gave 2100 buffs, my buffs might only be 1900-2000 because of MY battle fatigue.
So what is it that we want?
Option 1. Battle fatigue continues to be a combat-only problem, but affects more than just the "healability/buffability" of a character. Perhaps with higher battle fatigue, a combatant misses more often, hits for lower damage, or hits slower.
Option 2. Battle fatigue is expanded to general fatigue, affecting all professions, such as crafters after a lengthy crafting session. Effects unknown, but one would assume that making it like BF is now (only affects healing/enhance rate) would not be useful, since most non-combat professions are not wounded in the course of their activities, nor do they need buffs to perform them. So general fatigue would need to affect their success rate, or some other variable.
Option 3. Something else? Some combination of the above? None of the above? Status quo?
I think at the very least that option 1 would give us more of a role, since as it is now a lot of players simply ignore their battle fatigue until a doctor giving them buffs FORCES them to do something about it. However, both options 1 and 2 would probably cause some resentment among the non-entertainer player base.
Just look at what the Image Designers are dealing with now. After the mini-publish players won't be able to migrate their own stats anymore, they'll have to seek out an Image Designer to do it for them (though on the positive side, it will take only 10 minutes and not several days to take effect). This is probably good for the game in the long run, but in the short run IDs are going to get a lot of flack and resentment.
Thanks Groovy. Never noticed any difference in healing myself but I don't use stims that often to be honest and I rarely heal others. I also heal primarily only my own wounds so I'm might not have been paying as close attention as someone who's a medic or doc who heals for a living. So I thank-you for the info.
I like option 1 definitley. That's what I was thinking myself. I think that oneshould happen at the very least.
I believe option 2 is good but only if crafting for a long time like say 2 or more hrs. You start collecting general fatigue, get tired and maybe start having less awesome results and start having more great and good results until the fatigue gets high enough that the critical failures start happening. Would have to be a while between the time the fatigue starts and the time the criticals happen though. Only way I can see it working.
I didn't know about the stat migration and IDs. Personally, it won't bother me but I can see where the poor IDs are going to get some heat form that. I think by this point, anything done positive fora prof (from the eyes of those who have the prof) is going to get flack from people because so many want things changed with their own profs.
Yeah, if the devs changed bf to work better for us we'd catch flack. Who knows. Maybe it will work out after this supposed combat rebalance coming up. Hey, we can hope
ArgentWulf wrote:
Sounds like a Catch-22. If we danced and got fatigue we would have to find another dancer to watch and cure it. I think the current action expenditure is quite sufficient. I dislike the idea of general fatigue for everyone. Someone stated it before and I agree, it will only get more profs who hate our presence.
I can see some show-stopping problems with adding a general fatigue (gf) system:
1) player resentment...just going on my own reactionon reading Groovymarlin's post andlearning that now (or after the publish) I am going to have to go to an ID to change my character stats, I don't think this change will be readily received. Why did the Devs want to make a simple game mechanic more complicated for me? I think that crafters (myself included) can easily argue that they have enough "outside my class" contributions with getting components made, looking for high quality materials, vendor upkeep, deeds, etc that having one more detail to contend with is just too much.
2) the fact that player houses and cantinas can heal battle fatigue (bf). If bf is auto-healed in houses (does anyone know if this is a fact?) and cantinas, the fatigue rate for artisans would have to be fairly high and that might not balance well with combat rates. Hehe…I can hear the whine machines cranking already. But more seriously, we would then have to ask the Devs to not only add a new system in-game, but they would also have to work with bug and balance issues on two separate fatigue systems AND change how private buildings work AND change how public buildings work. Would any added benefits be worth the work?
3) do dancers get gf too? It would seem unfair to task other classes with gf without it applying to our class too. The question then becomes, do dancers get to heal our own gf? If the answer is yes, then dancers basically get something for nothing. (I’m hearing whine machines again.) If the answer is no, dancers have to watch other dancers in order to get the gf healed, then we have just undermined our argument that dancers should be able to mind buff themselves.
So, I have to whole-heartedly agree with PoetDancer. Yes, let’s get artisans into the cantina, but let’s look for another way other than a general fatigue system. We want happy customers, not disgruntled ones. 
Kitachiira wrote:
ArgentWulf wrote:
Sounds like a Catch-22. If we danced and got fatigue we would have to find another dancer to watch and cure it. I think the current action expenditure is quite sufficient. I dislike the idea of general fatigue for everyone. Someone stated it before and I agree, it will only get more profs who hate our presence.
Hhhmm. Good point. I was only thinking of the crafting profs for general fatigue not the entertainer profs. Yeah, it would really be an inconvience to have to heal ourselves all the time to go heal others. Unless it came on slowly. I guess I should've thought of that!
I would have thought that entertainers would love this. What better audience to have (and therefore people in your audience to liven up the interaction and social aspect) than other entertainers?
I don't see it as an inconvienience at all! It becomes a reason for more than one entertainer to be in a cantina, for one thing, or a great reason for the formation of troupes. I get on stage, do my 15 or 20 minute performance, then let the next act on to do theirs. While they are performing, I sit back, relax, and watch them while my own fatigue goes away.
[This is an extreme example--I wouldn't expect the fatigue to build up to the point where you have to get it healed in just 20 minutes, so performing alone would still be an option.]