Dancer Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade Dancer Concerns
NippyBooBoo
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:09 pm
#79
Panthu wrote:
NippyBooBoo wrote:
I will certainly try this again... I was using traditional flourishing of 2 in 10 secs. with a /dazzle once every 10 secs. Took a master dancer less than 1 minute and 30 secs to kill the action bar. Was able to continue dancing but had to stop if I wanted to let the bar regen. With Master Musician I wasn't able to burn the action for it to alter how I was performing.
On a side note about food and doc buffs... I do really feel that Master level Entertainers shouldn't have to rely on Docs and Food to perform properly.
But like I said I'll try it out again....I don't think you understood Eshie, you don't need to do anything other than /startdance. Period.
It doesn't matter what dance you do. It doesn't matter if you flo or don't flo. It doesn't matter if you are grouped or have anyone targeted. You give the same exact buff to yourself or anyone who does a /watch on you that you haven't denied.
The only factor is how fast you apply the buff. It will take you anywhere from 6 minutes to 30 seconds to apply a full 3 hour buff depending on your max Wound Healing bonus in which ever method you are using at the time (dance or music).
Nothing else matters.
I was commenting on burning my action duing a heavy light show performace... No question about buffing.....
Please see my previous posts in this thread about this if you want to see more of what was my concern.
So if I confused folks on that sorry...
Anyway tried it again. Still feel that at Triple entertainer template I shouldnt be buring action as much as I am for lights... just an opinion. But at this point I am steering away from leveling a new entertainer character anyway.
Rabenschwinge
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:47 am
#80
NippyBooBoo wrote:
Panthu wrote:
NippyBooBoo wrote:
I will certainly try this again... I was using traditional flourishing of 2 in 10 secs. with a /dazzle once every 10 secs. Took a master dancer less than 1 minute and 30 secs to kill the action bar. Was able to continue dancing but had to stop if I wanted to let the bar regen. With Master Musician I wasn't able to burn the action for it to alter how I was performing.
On a side note about food and doc buffs... I do really feel that Master level Entertainers shouldn't have to rely on Docs and Food to perform properly.
But like I said I'll try it out again....I don't think you understood Eshie, you don't need to do anything other than /startdance. Period.
It doesn't matter what dance you do. It doesn't matter if you flo or don't flo. It doesn't matter if you are grouped or have anyone targeted. You give the same exact buff to yourself or anyone who does a /watch on you that you haven't denied.
The only factor is how fast you apply the buff. It will take you anywhere from 6 minutes to 30 seconds to apply a full 3 hour buff depending on your max Wound Healing bonus in which ever method you are using at the time (dance or music).
Nothing else matters.
I was commenting on burning my action duing a heavy light show performace... No question about buffing.....
Please see my previous posts in this thread about this if you want to see more of what was my concern.
So if I confused folks on that sorry...
Anyway tried it again. Still feel that at Triple entertainer template I shouldnt be buring action as much as I am for lights... just an opinion. But at this point I am steering away from leveling a new entertainer character anyway.
Yes, but there is absolutely no point in doing more flourishes (like 2 in ten seconds) that are actually animated.
And when it comes to lightening I would pronounce certain points in a flourish instead of just filling them in a time pattern that does not have anything to do with the actual dance. Also I would not limit myself to the third effect (for example /smoke 2 is often more helpful than /smoke 3, /dazzle 1 is far better to pronounce movement than any other effect).
NippyBooBoo
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:53 am
#81
Rabenschwinge wrote:
NippyBooBoo wrote:
Panthu wrote:
NippyBooBoo wrote:
I will certainly try this again... I was using traditional flourishing of 2 in 10 secs. with a /dazzle once every 10 secs. Took a master dancer less than 1 minute and 30 secs to kill the action bar. Was able to continue dancing but had to stop if I wanted to let the bar regen. With Master Musician I wasn't able to burn the action for it to alter how I was performing.
On a side note about food and doc buffs... I do really feel that Master level Entertainers shouldn't have to rely on Docs and Food to perform properly.
But like I said I'll try it out again....I don't think you understood Eshie, you don't need to do anything other than /startdance. Period.
It doesn't matter what dance you do. It doesn't matter if you flo or don't flo. It doesn't matter if you are grouped or have anyone targeted. You give the same exact buff to yourself or anyone who does a /watch on you that you haven't denied.
The only factor is how fast you apply the buff. It will take you anywhere from 6 minutes to 30 seconds to apply a full 3 hour buff depending on your max Wound Healing bonus in which ever method you are using at the time (dance or music).
Nothing else matters.
I was commenting on burning my action duing a heavy light show performace... No question about buffing.....
Please see my previous posts in this thread about this if you want to see more of what was my concern.
So if I confused folks on that sorry...
Anyway tried it again. Still feel that at Triple entertainer template I shouldnt be buring action as much as I am for lights... just an opinion. But at this point I am steering away from leveling a new entertainer character anyway.
Yes, but there is absolutely no point in doing more flourishes (like 2 in ten seconds) that are actually animated.
And when it comes to lightening I would pronounce certain points in a flourish instead of just filling them in a time pattern that does not have anything to do with the actual dance. Also I would not limit myself to the third effect (for example /smoke 2 is often more helpful than /smoke 3, /dazzle 1 is far better to pronounce movement than any other effect).
Yes I am aware there is no point in doing more flourishes.... that's not what my concern was... dosn't matter I seem to be the only to find it an issue.
Time spent in cantina testing this stuff out. 3 hours. Total number of people that seemed to stop long enough to get an inspiration buff. 43. Total number of folks that said thank you or hello after being greeted. 2. That is the even bigger problem.
It's official Entertainers are nothing but npc healers.
Panthu
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:08 am
#82
NippyBooBoo wrote:
Yes I am aware there is no point in doing more flourishes.... that's not what my concern was... dosn't matter I seem to be the only to find it an issue.
Time spent in cantina testing this stuff out. 3 hours. Total number of people that seemed to stop long enough to get an inspiration buff. 43. Total number of folks that said thank you or hello after being greeted. 2. That is the even bigger problem.
That's odd, my experience on TC has been the exact opposite. I was shocked at how many people did thank me for the new buffs and tipped, even those I barely talked to.
I found it funny that people perceived that I was doing something for them, even though I was just doing what I had been before they came in... dancing and joking around with the other Ents, talking to everyone who came in. Also though, there isn't really any point in tipping on a TC with frogs, so it was just really funny that so many people felt the need to extend something nice to me just as gesture. 
At first I thought it was just a fluke, but it kept happening over and over again. So if these past few weeks of testing are any indication of how it will go on live for me, I should be as good as I ever was from straight tips. I'd still like to see us have some other options for income though, I always have... even before we got targeted buffs.
RutRut
Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:13 am
#83
Esharra wrote:
I'm stealing the idea of this thread from Scip (he can punish me for it later). But I thought we ought to have one location where we canitemize our concerns for Dancers after implementation of the CU.
- With the removal of mind wounds, and our current mind buffing, our interdependence with other professions is lowered.
- Concern thatDancers will be without purpose and without viable income between the release of the Combat Upgrade and an undetermined future date.
- With the removal of mind wounds, the benefits of two full lines of the profession (Wound Healing in Dancer, and Entertainment Healing in the Entertainer prerequisite) are meaningless.
- With the removal of mind wounds, the entertainment Wound Healing benefits of the Force Sensitive Heightened Senses Healing line are meaningless.
- Uncertainty over how our flourishes will work with the new system, since they currently have a cost to the action pool.
- With the removal of mind wounds, the BioEngineer enhanced clothing and skill tapes that affect our mind Wound Healing skill are meaningless.
- With the removal of our current mind buffing, skill tapes that affect theDance Mind Enhancement skill is either meaningless, or changes its worth. These skill tapes are especially expensive and have cost some entertainers 10s of millions of credits. This also eliminates the usefulness of the Exquisite Leotard (Jabba Themeparkquestreward).
- Because of the changes to the skillpoint requirements to the elite combat professions, it becomes more difficult to have a mixed mastery ofDancer and a combat profession.
- Without certification we will no longer be able toequip armor and weapons which have been part of our costuming and props for performances.
- Combat professions will have 2 to 3 times the available health, basically making us 33% to 66% less likely to survive while attending harvesters or traveling to our homes.
- Because the new "usable by anyone" stims are certed by combat level we will be less likely to be able to maintain our lower-than-combat-profession health when attacked.
- Concern that there is no plan to ever integrate entertainers into the game's backstory (GCW).
- That our future "minor buffs" will mean so little as to render our profession obsolete due to lack of income/viability.
- That Battle Fatigue healing can be provided by a novice entertainer, thus eliminating the desirability of spending the skill points on mastery.
- Without the removal of unattended "play" we will see the transition of buffbots to bf-heal-bots.
- That obtaining the requisite healing xp for mastery will be impossible.
- With increasing skill point prereqs for elite combat professions, will players with mixed entertainer/combat templates be given the option to respec some of their entertainer skill points to keep their combat profession, without penalty?
- In response to this statement by Blair, "The profession trees for Entertainers, Musicians, Dancers and Image Designers will be affected by the Combat Upgrade, and will likely need some profession tweaking because of the changes with wounds, stat migration and buffs to the mind.", will players be given the opportunity to respec the skill points they have invested in entertainer professions to compensate for any loss or change of healing and buffing special abilities?
- Would reduced functions for Dancers warrant a reduction in skill point requirement?
Additional concerns (4/2/05):
- Group size limit of 8 is not conducive to entertainer performances and events and severely limits the potential for group xp gain.
- Players are not receiving BF wounds and mind wounds are no longer healable by entertainers. As a result, entertainers are unable to gain xp at anywhere near the usual rate.
Please note the following:
As I think we have had plenty of time to think this through and present our concerns, I will forward this to Deila as complete and will no longer be editing the list (unless something unforeseen compels me to).
These concerns are itemized randomly. Please do not read into their order any level of importance.
There is already indication that some of these concerns are being considered (ie: modded clothing).
Moravi, Taerom_Nafuin and others: Many of your posts herepresent thoughtful ideas for addressing issuesbut nothing really new as far as concerns regarding the potential changes brought on by the CU. As this thread is about concerns, please consider starting independent threads using these posts of your ideas so they may bediscussed.
Please post concerns regarding stat homogenization and the loss of ability to migrate stats in the ID forum. Interesting points were brought up but they need to be voiced with the ID concerns.
Message Edited by Esharra on 04-02-2005 08:07 PM
Now, You claim since this is a COMBAT upgrade so only combat can be respec. However Entertainer professions ARE ALSO CHANGED. Musician and Dancer are one and the SAME PROFFESSION now. It is useless to have both. With both I can buff in 15 seconds rather then 30 seconds with just one of these professions(mind you, you really do not need these buffs anyways 10% bonus). There is NO WAY for me to make money because ANYONE can watch and get the buff. Now no one needs to spend but 1 minute in the cantinas to heal. THIS IS NOT the character I created. I created a social character, potential to earn money, and to give HELPFUL MEANINGFUL BUFFS. Therefore YOU SHOULD by all means be allowed to respec.
All I want is to drop (1) of my entertainer professions and trade it for ID or an artisan profession.
I beg you please reconsider this.
MeciniaLua
Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:32 am
#84
Inspiration buffs need to be gated. The dancer needs to have control over who gets it to ensure tips are given. As it is now folks are getting these and not tipping the dancers.
--Qilue-UCW--
Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:12 pm
#85
Jolene wrote:
I have mind buffers on Ahazi, Bloodfin, Bria, and Corbantis named "Jolen" I also have Babette on Chimaera.
The CUKILLED entertainer. I'm planning on keeping the accounts for 2 months and if there are no changes I'm out.
J
Big Loss there...
Caerwynn
Sun May 01, 2005 4:30 am
#86
Much to my surprise, I love the CU. I have had great fun learning my new attacks and hunting in a group. Inspite of being Master Pikegirlie, with a little Swords too, I'm only lvl 56. But grouped with lvl 80s my attacks count as lvl 80. I am also getting loads of xp when we hit the right lvl mobs, around lvl75.
I also like the the way the inspiration buff works, no breaking in the middle of a dance or conversation to switch to my buffing leotard and mindbuff macros.
But I do dislike the 8 max group number and the group window. The old one could be collapsed on it's self so that it didn't take up screen space. The new one fills a third of the screen and blocks out too much of the surroundings. If group size is increased to over 8, which it should be for Ent for groups, it will be even more annoying.
Mirkwoods
Wed May 04, 2005 6:50 am
#87
There is a problem with the entertainers not being able to hold weapons which many of them enjoy doing for their dances. There is also a problem with the crafters not being able to get to their harvestors and such without grouping up... and let's face it, if you aren't a combat profession, you can't go out into the wild alone.
I have a proposal for these problems. I realize that this would be a long term type fix, but I do think it would work great. Please feel free to post problems with the system, and fixes.
Proposal: New profession - Self-Defense Practitioner. (this could be changed, if someone can think of a better name.)
This profession is only half the skill points (if not less) of a regular profession. It could even be seperate from points, with the assumption that eventually, everyone whom goes into the wild would eventually develope some skills for self-defense.
It's like a combat profession, but the opposite. When you get away from a fight, you would get points. They would vary depending on how high of a level creature or any MOB really, is that you get away from once you've been engaged in combat. You could also get points by initiating combat and then escaping.
This is primarily for PvE. These skills should either be disabled, orseverely nerfedwhen participating in PvP combat. Perhaps it should even be disabled for anyone whom is in a combat profession, but I think that it wouldn't hurt to have the ability to escape from a battle if you're getting trounced. It would make soloing easier to do. You could attempt to fight a creature, and if you figure out very quickly that you are no match, you can use the self-defense skills to try and get away.
The skillsare not 100% successful against all creatures. The self-defense practitioner would have much better success against levels close to theirs. A low level SDP (abbreviation of Self-Defense Practitioner that I will use from here on out.) wouldhave a very hard time escaping from a rancor, but it would be possible if they were skilled.
-One branch of the tree is; defense against creatures.
Low level would have some special "attacks" although, they are really not attacks. Some might be "move downwind.", "Complete stillness", "make submissive gesture", etc. Different creatures will react to different ones of these "attacks". For example; A voritor lizard will not be able to see you if you use the "complete stillness" "attack". The assumption is that (much like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park) they can only see things that are moving. Using the "move downwind" "attack" will do nothing against the voritor lizard, but will work on other creatures.
Some may be succeptable to more than one thing. Depends on how creative the DEVs would want to get with it.
When you get higher level creatures, it gets harder, because you have to do things in a certain sequence. I.E. Bull Rancor. First you do the "complete stillness" command until it breaks off the attack. If you move though, it will immediately attack you. You would then hit "move downwind" to keep it off your tail. Of course, that is just an example, there will be other "attacks" granted at higher levels. Some will combine two "attacks" into one to make it easier as you get higher.
-The second branch will be; defense against sentients.
This is to defend against aggressive NPC's in the game. This will have "attacks" like "suckerpunch", "Quick knee", "Kick dirt in face", etc.
These are used to "stun" the NPC long enough for you to get away. (If combat professions are kept in,afterthey use this "attack" type, they cannot attack the sentient with a regular attack.)
I can see some fairly humorous animations for these attacks, and perhaps some cursing out (PG of course) from the NPC after you use one of these attacks.
As you move higher, you would get more effective and longer lasting "attacks". Lower level ones would only last a short time, meaning that you would have to hit and beat cheeks. FAST! At the higher levels, there would be more time. A master could probably just walk leisurely away.
- The third branch; Armed self-defense.
These would be nonlethal attacks done with weapons that would stun the NPC, or creature long enough for you to make your getaway. This would work in much the same way as the NPC branch.
I would think that weapon defense is slightly more effective than the non-armed version on NPC's although probably less effective against creatures than the defense against creatures branch.
You would have "attacks" like "hit with gun butt", "short defensive blast", "overload blast", "overhead shot", etc.
The higher your SDP gets, the more effective the "attacks" become.
These would deliver very little actual combat damage, and would never incap anything. In groups, these skills would only protect you from a creature attacking you. If they shy away from you, they will immediately aggro another member of your group.
The important part of this profession is the ability to hold weapons for non-combatants. If the combats are allowed to use this, it would make sense to let them hold the weapons, because a SDP would know more about weapons than any joe-schmo that you encounter on the street.
However, I would say that with the exception of level 1, they only would be able to hold the level of weapon directly below the SDP level held. For example, a level 4 SDP could hold level 3 weapons. SDPs could never hold the highest level weapons (unless they also have a combat profession.)
This would give the dancers their weapons to hold. They don't wanna hold those huge weapons that only masters have anyway.
- Fourth branch; I'm not completely sure, but perhaps; Evasion
You would get these points like combat skill points. They are non-specific to all of the other types, and you only get about half, just like the combat skill points, making this column fill up much slower.
With each level in this branch, you get a small % modifier to possibly attacking creatures.
When you're a master of self-defense, it does not mean that you can kick anybodys butt. It just means that you can avoid getting destroyed by everyone and everything... and hold weapons to be sexy dancers at sexy parties.
Well, that's about it. What do you all think?
P.S. Sorry that I'm so long winded.
--Qilue-UCW--
Wed May 04, 2005 6:42 pm
#88
I really like this.... Very good idea..
Mirkwoods wrote:
I have a proposal for these problems. I realize that this would be a long term type fix, but I do think it would work great. Please feel free to post problems with the system, and fixes.
Proposal: New profession - Self-Defense Practitioner . (this could be changed, if someone can think of a better name.)
Wilderness Survivalist ?
This profession is only half the skill points (if not less) of a regular profession. It could even be seperate from points, with the assumption that eventually, everyone whom goes into the wild would eventually develope some skills for self-defense.
How about no skill points, and it is only open to Master Musician, Dancer, And Elite Crafters
It's like a combat profession, but the opposite. When you get away from a fight, you would get points.
You mean kinda like how you get scout Xp if you pass a creature with mask scent on?
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 05-04-2005 06:43 PM
Mirkwoods
Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
#89
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
I really like this.... Very good idea..
Mirkwoods wrote:
I have a proposal for these problems. I realize that this would be a long term type fix, but I do think it would work great. Please feel free to post problems with the system, and fixes.
Proposal: New profession - Self-Defense Practitioner . (this could be changed, if someone can think of a better name.)
Wilderness Survivalist ?
Not bad, but theprofession does include more than just that. Perhaps the leg that is vs. creatures could be called that though.
This profession is only half the skill points (if not less) of a regular profession. It could even be seperate from points, with the assumption that eventually, everyone whom goes into the wild would eventually develope some skills for self-defense.
How about no skill points, and it is only open to Master Musician, Dancer, And Elite Crafters
That's not a bad idea on the no skill points. Wouldn't anyone whom manages to stay alive in this violent Star Wars Universe learn to take care of themselves a bit? I still think it's better to let anyone get it, if they want to take the time. There should just be a check to make sure that combat people can't bite off too much and then easily run away. Perhaps someone only would have a certain amount of time to perform a "retreat", or they are stuck in combat. Anyone can make a mistake. If they know how to defend themselves, they should have a chance of running away skillfully.
It's like a combat profession, but the opposite. When you get away from a fight, you would get points.
You mean kinda like how you get scout Xp if you pass a creature with mask scent on?
Perhaps, but I am not really familiar with the Scout profession. This is like combat, in that, you actually have to engage the enemy. The more you have to "work" to get away, and the higher level the MOB is, the more points you should get. Or if they want to keep it easy, maybe just a set amount of XP for the level of creature you escape from.
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 05-04-2005 06:43 PM
Carnye
Fri May 06, 2005 4:50 pm
#90
There is a bug in the player Cantina... if you are on stage, and someone trys to watch you from the floor it says you are too far away to continue watching. If you join them onstage... things work as they should...
