Dancer Archive
Thread: what a CSR said in regard to afk macroing
DiusFidus
no one here is saying that there is anything wrong with macroes. I use macroes all the time BUT UNATTENDED GAMEPLAY is the keyword here - not macro and not afk.
but AFK + MACRO together= unattended gameplay. And everyone here knows we are not talking about running to the bathroom, we mean HOURS of unattended gameplay.
for those who think that afk macroing for HOURS doesnt interfere with anyone elses gameplay i would like to give you a couple of examples.they far outway any benifit that afk macroing can bring (bigger groups being the only logical one)
1. An upstart new dancer in her underwear plops herself down in the middle of the cantina - turns on her macro - and runs off to school for 8 hours. Anytime someone watches her instead of a 'real'dancer then xp and tips are being stolen form them. Anytime someone steals tips or xp from me i consider my gameplay to be intereferred with.
2. the second example is a lil hard for some people to understand but ill try. Even if there is no one in the cantina but the single afk macroer who is supposedly there to "help",they aretaking xp and tips fdrom live entertainers. Why? Because if she had logged off when she went to school then the next person who needed healing would use the search tool to find a 'real' entertainer nearby . Doctors are a very respected class because people NEED them. If there was always one available for free no one would realize that they are so needed and they would be taken for granted.
The afk macro plague has ensured that no one will NEED an entertainer because its pretty much garanteed that there will be one in almost every cantina afkmacroing away. We have lost respect and we are totally taken for granted now. I consider that to INTERFERE with my GAMEPLAY.
and stop saying that macroes are ok because everyone knows macroes are ok.This game has an awesome macro system, just like ultima onlines almost - but in UOyou NEVER saw anyoneexploiting it for hours while they were at school because it was so well enforced. They COULD have - it was possible with that macro system, easier to do than with this one. But doing so was a bannable offense. In all the years i played that game i never saw it once.They dont need to make any nerfs or add any new features to discourage it they just need to start enforcing what the EULA already says
UNATTENDED GAMEPLAY is what is not ok so we need to stop confusing the two, maybe i should use unattended gameplayers instead of afk macroers to refer to them cause im sick of having people say "nu uh your wrong macroes are too allowed!!"
what gets me is unattended gameplay is a bannable offense in eq and eq is also from Sony
Jeassa
If it does mean 3rd party programs only then it seems to me that they would have said "you may not use any programs to allow unattended gameplay":BUT it says you may not use any MACROES or other programs.
It doesnt even mention 3rd party programs at all. Did you talk to the legal department before u posted that its referring to 3rd party programs? Or is that just your interpretation of it.
If it does only mean 3rd party programs then you never answered my question - how do you know thats not what someone is using.
Since no one ever checks it out then anyone can use a 3rd party program without fear of consequenses thanks to this blind eye they turn to it
1. You need to get your story straight. First you are complaining that the problem is afk macros actually hurt you. Now you are saying the complaint is actually that afkers add nothing you your (specific to you) experience. I guess by that argument I have a right to say thatImperial/Rebel factions should be taken out of the game since they add nothing to my gameplay. Silly isn't it.
Sinda said: "The more of these AFKers who know how the rest of us feel (or most of us anyway), the more of them who might actually decide to stop and play the game, instead" Example 1 of you "speaking for eveyone else-or most everyone else. Funny, i don't recall getting polled in the game my opinion about afkers, so how do you believe that you can speak for "most of us" instead of the "vocal few"
2. You're making illogical conclusions based on false premises. Its speciaous at best and vague at most and and your straw man argument does little to support or refute anything suggested. I'm not sure if you could be more vague about the "Im here to help others" arguement, but if your saying afkers take the job of other entertainers when they are the only one on a planet, then its laughable at most. Every entertainer has the option of heading to say, Endor and playing there. The afkers, just being present because no one else is around, do no take other peoples jobs. Thats ridiculous IMO and to suggest that someone on Yavin 4 should take a flight back to Corellia because the only entertainer on Yavin 4 is currently afk is laughable.
3. Sinda said :"Aside from that, my point stands about the benefits of grouping with people who are not AFK. The player connections are very valuable for the rest of one's game career, both professionally and personally." That should be in your opinion, instead of stating it as a fact. Example 2 in just one post of yours that youhave appointed yourself the sole repository of all knowledge.
4. Evidently your Theed group was either cliquish or excluded beginner musicans, not that there is anything wrong with either. In my journeys to master musician, regardless of where I played, Bestine, Moenia, Theed , Anchorhead, regardless of my level, there was always a newplayer learning, which meant playing SW1. As an aside though, one of my favorite combinations is indeed SW1 with mandivol. Most people who hear it thin its a new song and it generates lots of tips especially with the firejets added into compliment.
5. Where did you get the idea that I was a novice? I believe I said I was 2/2/4/2 of dance branch. That would be 2 of dance tech, 2 of both healing and 4 of dance knowledge which gives me almost every dance avaialble. Basically you say that yes, dancing in itself is boring, but that since you can socialize with people its ok. Basically what I am saying is that the limited number of flourishes combined with similar flourshes found in different dances, combined with dances like poplock taking you into some formal/lyrical move when you fail, combined with special effects that duplicated ones found in musician skill (spotligh,colorelights) does indeed lend itself to monotony. Thankfully at least the devs realize this and have made some changes in the flourishes recently. (Although I think the speed of flourish 7?8? for poplock is too quick and seems out of place)
About your Theed group, I thought it was clear what I was saying but I'll put it more clearly. You had fun early on at Theed when you were there with a wide group of friends that you "grew up" with. You are not having fun at Theed now. The "you" in the premise has not changed, the "Theed" in the premise has not changed, the "fun" has changed, reasoning implies that the "wide group of friends" has changed. There in lies your problem. I do not know how your wide group of friends have changed other then maybe they have moved on to other places as I get the impression they are of the same mind as you.
I said " Thats your perogative. I've seen often people who are masters ask for leadership of a group then start booting people who are afk without asking the group how they felt. I will leave the group everytime, when this happens and would rather perform by myself then be grouped with such puerile people" and you say that is insulting to you how? If you are going to pull quote from me, how about pull the full quote instead of just piecing togther some small portions that you think somehow insult you.
Sinda said: "The initial resentment from other players (the ones who decide whether to tip us) has ballooned into near rage at the idea that WE have the ability to gain Master status without ever being at our keyboard. We can become Masters while we sleep, eat, use the toilet and go to movies. They resent us because they can't" Example 3 of you appointing yourself spokesperson for everyone in jsut one post. I've never seen this rage you speak of on Bloodfin or Chilastra. I've seen some rude people on Chilastra, but every single one of them was a dancer (that is in no way saying that only dancers are rude though). In fact one or the preeminent dancers on Chilastra who I saw being rude to afkers, also felt the need to comment on someone elses name. An obvious new player with the name Kim Possible (may have been Kim- Possible or something similar)) walked in and asked to join the band, and the aforementioned dancer rseponded "Kim Possible? What are you..12 years old or something?" The poor girl felt bad and left the cantina and her feelings were hurt so I quit the group added the aforementioned master dancer to /addignore and /denyservice to boot. i sent a /tell to Kim apologising for the stupid comment but never heard back.
Fact :just becaue the are the best pipeline to the dev team does not make them factual and realistic statistics of the entire community. It is illogical to even suggest such a comparison.
Fact: Afkers have just as much right to send their comments to the dev team.....Really????? So what? That doesn't change the FACT that a non response does not automatically equal support for your notion that everyone or most everyone is against AFKers. That fact that 90% of the entertainers whether afk or not, do not feel obliged to post, should make it fairly obvious that you can not make a realistic statistical or factual observation as to what the community feels.
Fact You said"Most AFK Macroers don't give enough of a crap to even read the boards, much less post, so they have no idea how the rest of us feel about what they're doing." and how does this support your view that you can speak for everyone and say that most everyone in the game supports your views of afkers? It doesn't because its nonsense that you put the word "Fact" infront of. Most People period, regardless of whther they are afk or not, don't give a ratsrear about posting on the board.
Sinda said: "Nobody appointed anybody (except for Ravenmist, who was appointed by SOE). You're seeing opinions, which seems to be something you're ok with having but have a hard time accepting that your opinion is in the minority" See Examples 1-3 of you appointing yourself spokesperson for everyone or most everyone also, by your last line, saying I am in the minority, make that Example 4 of you appointing yourself the Fount of Information of all statistics. You are making up nonproven statistics and foisting them off as facts. I have no problem accepting opinions, unlike you. Anyone who disagrees with you is automatically in the minority. You need to learn the difference between letting someone have an opinion and being in disagreement with an opinion. I have not once stated that you could not have your opnion or that your opnion did not matter. I have said I feel your opnion is wrong and backed it up with facts. You on the other hand say that my opinion is wrong and that my opinion does not matter since I am in the minority. Once again, you do not speak for everyone so please tell me how I am in the minority or majority. I would like to see the result so the poll that involves every single other player in the game so i might make a true or false decision on that.
Sinda said" guess when your arguments are wearing thin, the best thing to do is invent a position for the opposition that's easier to knock down. None of us here feel that way - NONE." I am sorry but inventing positions, along with statistics and facts would be your speciality, not mine. You readily admit you want to keep the master class elite and based on your personal decisions as to who is worthy and who is not. Please reread your statements if you did not mean to imply such.
Sinda said" Except that's not what happens. They take up space in the cantinas, never talk to anybody, and then usually the moment they get their Master title (which they've helped to make worthless), they surrender their skills. They are then replaced in line by yet another Macro-zombie and the cycle starts all over again. The retired MacroMaster has added exactly ZERO to the profession except to make the rest of us ashamed and angry." Example 5 of you acting as the Cosmos of Comprehension, somehow you "know" that every person who has ever afk macroed their way to Master Dance has automatically surrended that skill? A bit overly dramatic, but you seem to be given to that. OMG, I surrended all 4 branches in Survey skill because I was having more fun doing CH and BioEngineer. I've wasted the time and efforts of all the other Surveyors have gone before me. <100%----sarcasm)
DiusFidus
anytime someone loses xp or tips to an unattended gameplayer then it is INTERFERRING WITH THEIR GAME.
maybe you are not an entetainer and it is hard for you to understand
"You don't "loose xp" cause of AFK dancers, unless you choose not to be grouped with them, and the patron watches them instead of you."
That's true. Of course, what happens if you go to the cantina and the other entertainers are all afk? How are you going to group with them? If you're lucky, they *might* have /join as a part of their macro. If not, you're going to lose exp because they aren't there playing-not only can you not invite them to group and get the exp boost from a larger group, if someone watches them instead of you, you've now lost out on the bonus exp from a watcher as well as heal exp.
Why is it so difficult to just do AFKing in the privacy of one's own house? /sigh
Seika, my one post about macros in general where I did not speak about afk macroers was in response to DanisasGalen post to Jeanna. DanisaGalens post read
"Before you question what I mean, here is what the EULA really says: you may not use or distribute macros AND NEITHER MAY YOU USE OR DISTRIBUTE other programs which would allow unattended game play. Get it sweeties ?
Love,
Denisa"
This post is basically saying that the EULA says we can not use macros. I was bascially saying that in my understanding the EULA is not clear and did not mean ingame macros as a given.
Sorry if that confused you Seika
Yes I realize the bigger argument is about unattended macroing. I respect your opinion on that but I do not agree with it. There are in game solutions for people to take involving afkers which involve kicking from group if you are leader, not listening to, not watching. What I do not respect are other posters who make make open suggestions on how they can additionally harass and grief said afkers. Does that mean that If I do not like people who own durnis as pets, I ahve the right to park a large rancor on them or do other things to harass them as was suggested by the other poster? No I do not. I think those actionas are just plain nasty and mean spirited and I will stand by that assumption.
And Jeassa, you may twist it all you want but it says you may not distribute MACROS, no mention of third party marcos, it says macros, plain and easy.
Sony needs to check with their legal department soon, there's a thread in this same dancer forum that BREAKS your rules.
you may not use or distribute macros AND NEITHER MAY YOU USE OR DISTRIBUTE other programs which would allow unattended game play.
Get it sweeties ?
Seika,
1st How does my occupation in game make my position less valid? IMO you dont have to be an entertainer to see grief and harassment for what it was. Turn the blind eye if you like, but I can go find the posts where such actions were suggested.
2nd I am an entertainer as I have posted in several of my posts. If I need to do so again for you, then I on Bloodfin I am a Master Musician, Master Image Designer, and 2/2/4/2 of Dance. I did not afk macro my way to those positions ( And as far as I know there isn't a way to even macro Image Design unattended) I ahve maxed out my healing xp at 500k, Ive maxed out my music xp at 900k and I have maxed out my dance xp at 900k and I have maxed out my ImageDesign at 80k. I still play to have fun since that is the only reason to play. I can't tell if I deserve tips since I can't tell if I am healing anyone. Even though I dont have the skill branches in Scout, Artisan, Combat etc, I maxed out what was available to max out in every skill other then combat xp which doesnt seem to have any cap. Wilderness xp capped at 2k (from fishing) Combat skills cap at 2k just by fighting , craft skill capped at 1k just by doing artisan missions, So there, maybe that qualifies me 
I have since also Mastered Creature Handler profession on Radiant so I am an example of a person who is goal-driven, not there for the journey. Thats just how I play the game.
I understand that you lose healing xp to afk entertainers and that is a valid point but then again you gain skill xp from afk macroers so there is some balance. Also I disagree that you lose tips to afk people. Many of the people I talked to today said they refuse to tip afk people. I personally believe that is the norm, though it is not proven anywhere.
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