Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
AnakinSWG
Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:58 pm
#729
Aeschyl2 wrote:
AnakinSWG wrote:
I HATE OUR FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friggin' things logged me out when I hit "submit" and I lost 30 minutes of typing about 'communties' and the Aeschyl syndrome.
??? please fill me in lol
Don't worry, it's not life-threatening.
DanceRulez
Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:02 pm
#730
AnakinSWG wrote:I HATE OUR FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friggin' things logged me out when I hit "submit" and I lost 30 minutes of typing about 'communties' and the Aeschyl syndrome.
Don't feel too bad, Til, I once spent a few hours writing a post which solved all the problems for the Merchant profession and gave suggestions on how to turn it into a more useful and vibrant profession. Unfortunately the forum ate it when I went to post because the thread I was replying to had just been removed and there was no way to go back to the text. Grrrrr! I've never tried to rewrite that post since.
(Ok, maybe it didn't solve *all* the problems, but it was a darn good post that no one ever got to see.
)Obligatory on-topic comment: Buffbots still stink!
--Qilue-UCW--
Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:43 pm
#731
That is why a do alll long posts in a notepad then Copy&Pastethem to where I want them... saves sooo much headach
DanceRulez wrote:
AnakinSWG wrote:
I HATE OUR FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Friggin' things logged me out when I hit "submit" and I lost 30 minutes of typing about 'communties' and the Aeschyl syndrome.
Don't feel too bad, Til, I once spent a few hours writing a post which solved all the problems for the Merchant profession and gave suggestions on how to turn it into a more useful and vibrant profession. Unfortunately the forum ate it when I went to post because the thread I was replying to had just been removed and there was no way to go back to the text. Grrrrr! I've never tried to rewrite that post since.
(Ok, maybe it didn't solve *all* the problems, but it was a darn good post that no one ever got to see.
Obligatory on-topic comment: Buffbots still stink!
-AurraSing-
Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:50 am
#732
One last question (thank you, especially Doriana and Sunjammer, for your illuminating responses):
Where can one obtain the code to have a signature endorsing ATK playstyles (with the little ribbon), as many of you have?
Tangleweb
Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:17 am
#734
LLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
JJJJJJJJJJJJJEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DavianLore
Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:41 pm
#735
In my opinion all the parts of this thread that occured before CU should be cut out, or a new thread should be started referring to AFK bots after CU. There is no longer any mind-wound healing in the game and no longer any mind-bar buffing. Soon even Battle Fatigue will be removed from the game.
It is no longer an issue whether entertainer-buffbots are needed to heal mind wounds or increase mind bar so people can put on their favorite armor and play. Over 20 pages of this thread are devoted to that fact which is now null and void.
I recently mastered the musician profession. I have to say it was horrible and completely sucked. I felt a need to complete what I started it after having gotten almost halfway, so I persevered. There is, in my opinion, no way to master dancer or musician in a timely manner without leaving a macro going while being AFK. And, I don't mean, AFK to go to the bathroom or get a drink. I don't even mean AFK to go to the movie theater for two hours and then come back. I mean AFK as in... start my macro this morning when I get out of bed, go to work, go out to dinner, come back and check on it before bed, go get my new skill training, restart the macro, turn the monitor and sound back off, go to sleep... reboot the computer in the morning and restart the macro, go to work again the next day.... ad nauseum. I suppose there is a way I could have mastered musician without following this formula... but this seems to be the most efficient means possible to master an entertainer profession.
My gripe is that this does not really constitute game interaction. When the game is running unattended with only short spans where you 'check up on it' to make sure it hasn't crashed... you're running a screen saver not a game. I speak only for myself in saying that this is not a very satisfying game scenario, but it is the one the game IMPOSES on us in order to master our profession.
People say that entertainers are the 'heart and soul' of SWG and that cantinas are the centers for human interaction. I have not seen this at all. They are the centers for spam, spam-bots, spammy npcs such as trehla the newbie helper, spammy vendors yelling.... Hunting groups seem to be the real 'source of human interaction' since you must be active to be in one and there is not much tolerance for someone going AFK in the middle of a fight for more than a few minutes. There is constant chatter about game mechanics and techniques.... Not so with entertainers.
I'd have enjoyed to converse a bit with people who came in to listen to music and I often tried, during my non-AFK game hours, but with the spam in the area and with 'You perform a flourish' coming up every 5 seconds it was virtually impossible to keep a conversation.
When I play a combat character, I am only in a cantina for maybe 2 minutes, get buffed up for the extra exp and am gone again.
I don't know if I can blame people for AFK macroing. I can express my dislike of people AFK spamming "please tip me! I'm so sexy! I need your money because of some trumped up excuse! I'm working hard for you by not being here at all! Please invite me to the entertainer group if I'm not in one because I have /join on line 5 of my macro and I'm too lazy to even be here to accept your invitation in person! Thx!" And for the record, I really do dislike spammy macros. Even the option in the interface menu to disregard things from AFK players didn't seem to work.
I blame the game system where:
1) AFK macroing for extended periods of time is the ONLY WAY TO MASTER MUSICIAN/DANCER in any semi-reasonable timeframe.
2) Not being able to move around even slightly without causing music/dance to stop and exp to shut off requires it to be incredibly dull looking at the same spot of wall in a cantina for hours and hours and even days.
3) The best way to earn exp has nothing to do with creating an entertaining display. You can earn exp just as easy with Flourish 1;/pause 5;/macro danceagain as you can with any other macro. The most common one is Flourish 1-8 in sequence with short pauses in between then "/say Please tip me! I'm providing a valuable service and am so sexy!"
4) One of the stated GOALS of the profession is to be a source of human interaction but one of the SIDE EFFECTS of performing the proffession is spam in the Spatial window with 'you perform a flourish' that PREVENTS effective interaction. System messages can be turned off but then you miss the all important "SoAndSo tips you 1000 credits!" messages which, in my opinion, are the ones most necessary to aknowlege. Move tip messages to non-system or else move flourish messages to combat.
5) A novice entertainer can provide the same service as a Master Dancer/Musician.
5) After mastering the professions there doesn't seem to be much to do with them, other than standing in one place and continuing to AFK macro. Butwhy would I bother? I've suffered enough as it is, and keeping SWG running that long tends to blue-screen my computer. I'd say there's a memory leak in the program somewhere but I have no concrete proof.
Ah well, I've said it. That's my opinion.
Panthu
Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:43 pm
#736
DavianLore wrote:
People say that entertainers are the 'heart and soul' of SWG and that cantinas are the centers for human interaction. I have not seen this at all. They are the centers for spam, spam-bots, spammy npcs such as trehla the newbie helper, spammy vendors yelling.... Hunting groups seem to be the real 'source of human interaction' since you must be active to be in one and there is not much tolerance for someone going AFK in the middle of a fight for more than a few minutes. There is constant chatter about game mechanics and techniques.... Not so with entertainers.
I don't know that you're really getting the whole playstyle concept behind entertainer, but I agree with you about the cantinas. I think we need to see a cantina revamp as soon as the devs can get to it. The concept behind making them the social hubs is great, but there really isn't anything built into the cantina itself to help this along. It's not even a good place to form a combat group, trade goods, or find a guild or social event. *shrug* They need some work.
For entertainers, Cantinas have been great in the past for us and player cantinas often are still. They do give us a safe place to congregate and rp... when they aren't being spammed to death.
I hate it that the CS policy on cantina spam is even more slack then other areas of the game. Tons of SLs got CS warnings for "spamming" their commands while they were atk and actually doing their job as it was designed. Cantina spammers oth are allowed to spam the same drivel non-stop 24-7 and no CSR will touch them even though it totally ruins the environment for atk entertainers and patrons.
KaiaClodgah
Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:56 pm
#737
DavianLore wrote:I'd have enjoyed to converse a bit with people who came in to listen to music and I often tried, during my non-AFK game hours, but with the spam in the area and with 'You perform a flourish' coming up every 5 seconds it was virtually impossible to keep a conversation.
I'm not even going to get into the rest of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how wrong they may be perceived) However, you can get rid of the system message. Right click spatial tab, click modify tab, remove system messages from spatial.
Tada! You can chat again!
--Qilue-UCW--
Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:57 pm
#738
KaiaClodgah wrote:
DavianLore wrote:
I'd have enjoyed to converse a bit with people who came in to listen to music and I often tried, during my non-AFK game hours, but with the spam in the area and with 'You perform a flourish' coming up every 5 seconds it was virtually impossible to keep a conversation.
I'm not even going to get into the rest of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion (no matter how wrong they may be perceived) However, you can get rid of the system message. Right click spatial tab, click modify tab, remove system messages from spatial. Tada! You can chat again!
After you do what Ay'la said, Try this... Right click spatial tab, click New tab, click modify new tab, Add system messages to new tab.
Tada! You can chat again, and Stil check on your System messages
Doriana
Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:33 am
#739
Panthu wrote:
I don't know that you're really getting the whole playstyle concept behind entertainer
QFE.. which is the main problem -- the system (and the devs) allow people who aren't part of the ent way of life (and I do NOT mean clique.. I'm not part of the BH way of life, for example, or the jedi way of life, and I recognize this and don't even try. We all have our different playstyles..) hang around, get master by AFKing and then say "this sucks" and drop the skills when they realize the game play is the same at master dance/music as at novice ent. In the mean time trashing everything for the rest of us.. /sigh
Oh well, that's beating a dead horse isn't it? But then again the AFK horse isn't dead, so it does still need quite a few good whacks.
I do think this thread is one of the most important things we have on this board to show the history of mind buffing and just how damaging bots are/were and that we need to keep it around. Better to not be bumped, but the anger and resentment here is a good reminder of why we're looking for good non-combat buffs now.
annshadow
Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:31 pm
#740
Isendel wrote:
Buff bots are convientent and deliver a well needed service to the public in the most effecient manner possible. While many entertainer may not like them, I as an entertainer do. They are no harm to me. If people dont want to be cornered into social interaction is it really right for us to force it on them?
I do agree that the enteretainers need some more attention, but if its at the expence of our macros and the ability to run a buff bot at our choosing, then no thanks.
On a side note: Please STOP calling me a troll because i don not agree with your view on how our profession should work. I find it offensive, and not contributeing to anything positive.
I completely agree.
Buff-bots serve a very useful function.
People come from all over to Dantoonie because they KNOW that entertainers will be there.
They tip them for being there.
They want them to be there.
My wife loves dancing in Dantoonie running her macro. When she is not out dancing she is buying new clothes for her character. She loves that too.
When I two box with her character, I use her as a healing bot (I got her up to 2xxx doctor) so that I could get Exp throwing traps.
Now she enjoys healing wounds for people.
She puts AFK over her head even while at the keyboard so that she does not have to be "lively" and "chat". But if someone comes in with wounds, she stops dancing and starts healing; you can guess that she is at the keyboard.
AFK dancers are important and fun to play. Yes. Fun to play!! Not everyone want to make small talk!
Oh and if you tip her, She will send you an email thanking you for it.
Now thats class!
PoetDancer
Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:28 am
#741
annshadow wrote:
Isendel wrote:
Buff bots are convientent and deliver a well needed service to the public in the most effecient manner possible. While many entertainer may not like them, I as an entertainer do. They are no harm to me. If people dont want to be cornered into social interaction is it really right for us to force it on them?
I do agree that the enteretainers need some more attention, but if its at the expence of our macros and the ability to run a buff bot at our choosing, then no thanks.
On a side note: Please STOP calling me a troll because i don not agree with your view on how our profession should work. I find it offensive, and not contributeing to anything positive.
I completely agree.
Buff-bots serve a very useful function.
People come from all over to Dantoonie because they KNOW that entertainers will be there.
They tip them for being there.
They want them to be there.
My wife loves dancing in Dantoonie running her macro. When she is not out dancing she is buying new clothes for her character. She loves that too.
When I two box with her character, I use her as a healing bot (I got her up to 2xxx doctor) so that I could get Exp throwing traps.
Now she enjoys healing wounds for people.
She puts AFK over her head even while at the keyboard so that she does not have to be "lively" and "chat". But if someone comes in with wounds, she stops dancing and starts healing; you can guess that she is at the keyboard.
AFK dancers are important and fun to play. Yes. Fun to play!! Not everyone want to make small talk!
Oh and if you tip her, She will send you an email thanking you for it.
Now thats class!
It sounds to me like she is not a bot, but a played character. Simply a played character with the AFK flag up, who is rather quiet, and who unattends when it is not played.
Nobody ever said one has to be gabby to be an entertainer. But I have found I can do much better if I try and entertain the audience. My "work to tips" ratio proves it.
And this just goes to show that the AFK flag really means nothing. There are bots who do not have the AFK flag up, yet they are still AFK, and real players who actually attend their characters, yet have the AFK flag up.
The real distinction is whether or not the character has a player behind it, and enjoys what it is doing, and not what it does.
Because it seems like this character is a rather poor buffbot. Because the real buffbots never have a player behind them, never have any motivations to do anything other than be parked at a location, and never stop dancing or playing to pick out clothes, or explore the game, or cease dancing or playing for any reason. And frankly, they would be there, doing what they do even if one doen't tip it anything at all.
Because even if buffbots never earn one credit doing what they do, they would still be around. Because they are not created to earn credits. They are created to maintain a zone of predictability, and to manipulate the game world for the advantage of the owner and the owner's friends. It is impossible to "play" a buffbot, because players have needs, ambition, volition, and an appetite for new experiences.
The real power behind buffbots is not that they mimic what players do, but that they do not behave like players at all. They have no desire for clothes. They have no desire to explore. They have no desire for tips. They have no desire to even be of service to anyone, or anything. They simply do what they are programmed to do by an outside force. In short, they are not in and of themselves rational actors. They are merely appendages of rational actors that serve no greater purpose than to serve the main character.
So if the argument is that your wife plays with the AFK tag, and that players like her should be treated with a sort of dignity for what they are, then I am afraid it shows right there that sheis indeed a player, and a very poor AFK, professional unattendee.
Because the real AFK players don't really care about dignity, credits, or anything as silly as exploring, sending thank you notes, or buying clothes. Because they are not people, and they make no pretenses that they are.