Dancer Archive
Thread: Update and Cantina Gossip from the Corr Summit
Groovymarlin
Thu Sep 02, 2004 3:04 pm
#53
Dvnce said:
Hey Big Fur Coat and Shaggy Pants.... can be REAL sexy too.... you know...
What are shaggy pants? Inquiringand fashionable minds want to know. 
Tralmak said:
/gentlehug Kwee (I know you're resigning, but you've been a great correspondant for the Image Designers and you've often made the forums a much calmer place with your presence.
Ack! Kwee is resigning? Noooooo.....!!!
Panthu said:
On the Bots, yes, I know which Redtag is at the root of the Recursive Macro Changenow... yes it is because he hates AFK... yes I heard him talk about it a lot... no I don't think it will fix anything for us. However, I do like the stand against AFK Play and Bannings for 3rd Party Program Usage.
/giggle. Let me guess on the Redtag....was it Runesabre? 
And I too hope that puppy and grandmother (and Panthu!) are doing better.
Tiaga
Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:11 pm
#54
Groovymarlin wrote:/giggle. Let me guess on the Redtag....was it Runesabre?
It is someone who I don't think will let the team back down on the decision like some people are afraid or hoping (Depending on what they want) will happen. I don't know about Panthu, but I flat out asked him if it was his doing (He was sure talking about it enough), and he said yes.
Pappi
Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:14 pm
#55
Kreistor wrote:
You know, I thinking of posting somthing here, but decided against it.
Instead I'll say Panthu is doing an amazing job, Garvin posts some amazing posts, voting for our Corrs is a silly idea, and I refuse to feed the trolls!
Thank you and good night!Message Edited by Kreistor on 09-02-2004 09:46 AM
ain't nothing wrong with voting... although it should be like politician: all votes autos to correspondent unless someone actively votes against him/her *smirk*
Panthu
Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:23 pm
#56
/whisper He means Desert Crawlers... don't ask...
Groovymarlin wrote:
Dvnce said:
Hey Big Fur Coat and Shaggy Pants.... can be REAL sexy too.... you know...
What are shaggy pants? Inquiringand fashionable minds want to know.
Tiaga
Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:13 pm
#57
The correspondent program is an evolving beast. When it first started, the idea was that corrs would change every month. That never happened. It quickly became obvious that it was too unwieldy to find 30+ new people every month, and while some people hit the ground running, most take around a month to just get up to speed.
In the original inception, the correspondents were specifically not supposed to be community leaders.
That has all changed by the time I became part of the program. Many of the correspondents try to keep an upbeat attitude in their community. Panthu is exceptionally good at it. Basically, filling the role of community leader.
The way I see the program now, we serve both as community leaders, and community representatives, in addition to communications pipelines. The initial and ongoing role has been communication. We take information from the community to the developers, and information from the developers to the community. It's easier for them to tak to 30-40 people than it is to talk to 30000-40000. We are expected to be knowledgable in both our own profession, and the community around our profession. There are times that we are called upon to give a quick answer, and since we spend so much time involved in the community, we do a pretty good job answering as the community even when we don't have time to consult everyone, or for unreleased information where we can't consult anyone. However, we prefer to get the community involved whenever possible. While I can give answers that are roughly what the community as a whole would say, I feel better about those answers when it really does come from the community. Our role as community leaders empowers us to do both.
As is the nature of evolution, that is all subject to change. Some things work and are kept, some things don't and are dropped. (Be honest, did you really find the weekly answers useful? It was more like the weekly non-answers, as there just wasn't enough time to get 19 good answers.)
The summit is the latest in the process of evolution. Every single one of us there was not there as ourselves, we were there as all of you, as our role of community representatives. It was in a sense just a very broad version of a focus group. They could go over some changes they have in mind in detail with people who they know will understand the impact to the professions, and get the feedback of thousands of people by proxy of the community representatives.
In the original inception, the correspondents were specifically not supposed to be community leaders.
That has all changed by the time I became part of the program. Many of the correspondents try to keep an upbeat attitude in their community. Panthu is exceptionally good at it. Basically, filling the role of community leader.
The way I see the program now, we serve both as community leaders, and community representatives, in addition to communications pipelines. The initial and ongoing role has been communication. We take information from the community to the developers, and information from the developers to the community. It's easier for them to tak to 30-40 people than it is to talk to 30000-40000. We are expected to be knowledgable in both our own profession, and the community around our profession. There are times that we are called upon to give a quick answer, and since we spend so much time involved in the community, we do a pretty good job answering as the community even when we don't have time to consult everyone, or for unreleased information where we can't consult anyone. However, we prefer to get the community involved whenever possible. While I can give answers that are roughly what the community as a whole would say, I feel better about those answers when it really does come from the community. Our role as community leaders empowers us to do both.
As is the nature of evolution, that is all subject to change. Some things work and are kept, some things don't and are dropped. (Be honest, did you really find the weekly answers useful? It was more like the weekly non-answers, as there just wasn't enough time to get 19 good answers.)
The summit is the latest in the process of evolution. Every single one of us there was not there as ourselves, we were there as all of you, as our role of community representatives. It was in a sense just a very broad version of a focus group. They could go over some changes they have in mind in detail with people who they know will understand the impact to the professions, and get the feedback of thousands of people by proxy of the community representatives.
Vorpaks
Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:53 pm
#58
If they didn't want Correspondents to be community leaders they shouldn't have chosen community leaders to be Correspondents. 
kirah_ashlin
Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:48 am
#59
Vorpaks wrote:
Oh yeah... my point... props to all the newbie helpers . . . . .
Props?! We're getting props?! When? Where? How? Panthu! I want the scoop!
/smirksatthethoughtofstartinganewrumor
Panthu
Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:00 am
#60
I often say that we have so many Great Dancer Posters, I'm more like a head cheerleader and house mom than an actual leader. I'm also a huge Dancer and Entertainer Activist though, and that's the side of me that the Devs and other correspondents usually see.
I'm also a huge Dancer and Entertainer Activist though, and that's the side of me that the Devs and other correspondents usually see. Because our community is so active and so gifted, I can usually stand back and wait for someone else to answer questions in here first, sticky other posters, and pull lot's of direct quotes from our Forum for the Devs to see on all of our hottest issues. Tiaga is great with numbers and extreme testing, so he has always made that part of the job much easier for me.
It is a hard job and it can be insanely frustrating, particularly when we are pushing a request really hard with the Devs and have to be told that "we understand, we just can't do that yet" ... then we have to come back out and see you guys asking for that very thing in our 20 top posts. 
It's worth it though. I really look forward to the day when you guys will be able to see our efforts realized in the game. This community is strong andwe know what would make the game more fun for us. All the Devs have to do is listen (and sure, that codey stuff they always whine about *rolls eyes* ), and they are getting much better at itwith us. It's just going to take a bit longer for the results to be obviousto all.
), and they are getting much better at itwith us. It's just going to take a bit longer for the results to be obviousto all. Paks - Awesome post!
Kirah - /tsk
Esharra
Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:08 am
#61
The correspondent program in SWG is a groundbreaking attempt at a new approach to bridging the gap between players and the development team. While participatory development theories have been applied to other projects in the MMOG genre, none have so fully implemented these in the live game as has the SWG example. Still, as with many elements of this game, it is quite experimental and must further evolve to reach its fullest potential.
The usual response to commentary of the above type regarding any MMOG dynamicis to follow up by asking why didn't the devs wait until such programs were fully implemented before releasing to live, so I'll respond to that here before going forward. We've walked about a quarter of a mile down a very long and unmapped road imagined a few years ago by a couple of visionary geniuses. We can keep walking on this adventure and see where we end up and MMOGs will be better off because of our journey or we can quit. There are plenty of static games available if you want predictability.
While working for 3 years as a CSR and in technical support for an MMOG that did not have such a program as the correspondents, I processed player feedback, bug reports, account management requests, grief reports and client-side trouble tickets as well as participating in alpha and beta testing. I've had admin accounts, special board privs and been to immersive events..trust me..these aren't perks, they are responsibilities. For me this was a full time job and if I had not been paid (very well), you couldn't have convinced me to do it. While the rest of us can come home, log in and unwind, the correspondents have to be "always on". I am very happy that I am not in their shoes.
As players, our role in the participatory development process is to provide the correspondents with constructive input. Theoretically, we should be doing this in the best interest of the game world and our place in it. While the devs can post in-concept information on its appropriate forum, this is the appropriate place for us to contribute our ideas. There are really only two ways of getting an item on the developer's agenda. One is the ranting and raving of 5000 leet doods on any forum where the thread gets enough posts that it gets TH's attention. The second is by providing intelligently written posts for our correspondent representatives to snip to their closed forum. Based on my past experience in this industry, I know where we have a better chance of being represented in our best interest and that is with the correspondents.
While the correspondent program is designed for getting what little constructive input we provide (and frankly, we could do a lot better at this, folks) to the developers, it was not originally intended as a conduit for providing information to the players from the devs. Sure, they have a (limited) idea of what to expect when the devs release the information on the combat rebalance but do I want this information before hand? Nope..it isn't a finished design doc yet and I'm sure it is (hugely) subject to change (many times over) before it is released for our perusal.
I'll be the first to acknowledge that it can be very frustrating to have little or no knowledge of what is being planned for the future of our characters that we have invested so much time in. As with most of Reachwind's posts, if I remove the ascorbic, angry and insulting rhetoric, I can eek out a sentence or two that actually voice a valid point (flame away Reach..I've supported a MMOG..I'm flameproof) and I think this is what he is trying to say. Ideally, this would be the responsibility of the Community Relations team not the correspondents. And I'm sure TH will make the information available to us in the appropriate forum when the devs believe it is in a form that represents what they plan to implement.
Where SWG is failing in the participatory design process right now is that the player base is not seeing a demonstrative example that the developers are taking advantage of our input. This is causing players of many professions to question the success of the correspondent program. While the devs are under no obligation to provide us with acknowledgement of our contributions, it would calm a lot of folks down. But I don't think theprofession forums would be the appropriate place for this nor do I believe it is the responsibility of the correspondents to provide this feedback from the devs to us.I'd hate to log into the Dance forum to see a red name posting here though. Not that it wouldn't feed my little ego or that I wouldn't enjoy reading the responses of the 30 or 40 of us who post here. It's the thousands of "what about mememe" posts from non-entertainers that I can do without.
Panthu, Tiaga, Pappi, N'Jessi, Kwee, Vandessa, Ravenmist, NewJedi (much <3 for Ronny) and the other correspondents who have gone to bat for us (sometimes putting game balance above the preferences of the players in their own profession) are all giving up tons of their time to make my game better and I truly appreciate it.
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-03-2004 08:39 AM
Vorpaks
Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:21 am
#62
kirah_ashlin wrote:
Vorpaks wrote:
Oh yeah... my point... props to all the newbie helpers . . . . .Props?! We're getting props?! When? Where? How? Panthu! I want the scoop!/smirksatthethoughtofstartinganewrumor
Shhhhh Kirah, that was a subliminal message!
Warryyr
Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:14 am
#63
I think the thing I love the best about the Entertainer forums is that we actually have some intelligent, thought-provoking, and passionate conversations. Don't get me wrong, lots of other professions have the same thing, but we seem a bit more consistent in that regard.
Sometimes tempers flare (*stares into a mirror for a moment* - "i'm looking at YOU, Warryyr...") but when all is said and done, we get some GREAT stuff in here.
Man, I really can't wait for some of the ideas kicking around here to get some serious consideration, and maybe even get put in the game. That would be so sweet...
Groovymarlin
Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:23 pm
#65
Panthu wrote:
/whisper He means Desert Crawlers... don't ask...
Groovymarlin wrote:
What are shaggy pants? Inquiringand fashionable minds want to know.
Desert Crawlers?!? 
THOSE are shaggy pants? Huh. More like Diaper Pants!!