Dancer Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade Testing (Discussion)
DanceRulez
Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:32 pm
#53
Hobbytla wrote:I posted the lack of BF of my newbie on the first issues thread from the 31st. After that I haven't seen anyone else complain or mention this, am I the only one? I guess I can nag every day, but it seems better if different people testing brings it up there as a point in their issues list? And sorry if I just missed those posts there!Not saying that this discussion shouldn't be held here, just... do you also list it in the bug thread or issues thread? (the two threads which are read by the devs?) After logging out, did you mention it in the "progression" tab in the survey? (I don't care if they are testing combat and not entertaining leveling, 'battle fatigue" implies battle, not cloning)
Don't worry, Hobbytla, some of us have access to other areas to post our concerns on such things and are making use of them!
Esharra
Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:52 pm
#54
Our Combat Upgrade Dancer Concerns sticky is still open and being updated. Please remember to post in the In Testing - Dev: TC5 Threads here too. I really appreciate all the hard work you guys are putting into this.
LyteFoot
Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:04 am
#55
Rabenschwinge wrote:
Esharra wrote:
<I don't know that 8 per group will be a permanent situation.Thanks for the numbers guys..keep em coming. (I'm reading like mad..lots to catch up on)Message Edited by Esharra on 04-01-2005 10:05 PM
As far as I know only a group lead by a squad leader may have more members... which is of course just a rumor, but a plausible one. It fits into the interdependency scheme.
Forcing a need for a class? All that fits into with their requirement for combat classes for hitpoints is insuring we are stuck in 8 person groups. I have to admit I've never seen a worse design team in 18 years of working several IT jobs.
Drygo
Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:44 am
#56
LyteFoot wrote:
Rabenschwinge wrote:
Esharra wrote:
<
I don't know that 8 per group will be a permanent situation.
Thanks for the numbers guys..keep em coming. (I'm reading like mad..lots to catch up on)
Message Edited by Esharra on 04-01-2005 10:05 PM
As far as I know only a group lead by a squad leader may have more members... which is of course just a rumor, but a plausible one. It fits into the interdependency scheme.
Forcing a need for a class? All that fits into with their requirement for combat classes for hitpoints is insuring we are stuck in 8 person groups. I have to admit I've never seen a worse design team in 18 years of working several IT jobs.
Seriously...every new change I hear about, not just from our profession, but basically any non-combat profession (including doctors) has been just plain awful. I want to stick this out, but I just can't see this coming out well at all. It's so crazy I'm at a loss for words to describe it. And, then there are still people who keep saying, "we don't know everything, blah, blah." Well, for chrissakes tell us everything! Because, quite frankly, I would love to be happy about the CU. But, thus far, I have not found one single thing to be happy about. And, I am not one of those people who hates every time there is a change. I usually give the devs credit where credit is due. I used to be one of this games biggest fanbois. But, my goodness, I'm just...just flabbergasted at how bad this is!
Message Edited by Drygo on 04-03-2005 05:44 AM
Drygo
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:15 am
#57
My main character is half entertainer and half combat. As I've already expressed, the entertainer side of me hates this CU with the burning white passion of a thousand suns.
The combat side of me thinks, "this is fine." I don't think it's wonderful or glorious, it's just a little different. I like the concept of different roles, armor and weapons from a combat perspective. But, really, that's only in theory. And, I honestly think that they could have done the exact same thing with our current system rather than implementing an entirely new game. But, even so, it seems fine from the combat side of me, but not wonderful. And, I do not think for one second this is going to change things. There will still be numerous bugs that they will be fixing for the next two years. People are still going to pick FOTM's, and they will be whichever combat professions deal the most damage. So, I expect for the majority of marksman to still be doing Rifleman. People like to be uber, and don't so much care for crowd control or defense. And, one of the biggest imbalances I see is the health levelling. The vast majority of people who want to PvP or PvE as much as the next guy will be forced to pick up two elite combat professions at the expense of crafting or entertaining. Choice is pretty much thrown out of the window for people who want to be viable in combat. Because, if you only have one elite combat profession, you will die 99% of the time that you go up against someone who has two, because their health bar will be twice as large as yours.
At any rate, maybe that's what SOE wants. Maybe they believe (and perhaps rightfully so), that if this game is 95% combat oriented then they will have more subscribers. That's the financial bottom line, I suppose. And, it's the only reason I can come up with that the devs are ruining this game for me and so many others like me. 
LyteFoot
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:51 am
#58
My main is half combat and half entertainer as well. I don't like the combat changes any more than I like the non-combat changes. I don't want character levels nor do I want to be required to have two elite professions for maximum health. I have an alt who is right now novice rifleman going for master, novice CH, and working on master scout. I was going to get enough CH to play with a few creatures I enjoyed as a master CH in the past and enough Ranger to do some basic tracking. The CU breaks that completely. There is no dabbling, there is no template mixing for fun, there is combat or not combat.
I think the change is definitely suit driven and has two fact points they are basing it on. The first is EQ2 must be more successful so they think making this the same will retain and grow players and second getting the games on a common code base means they can cut head count and increase profit. I expect we will see this go live and then a serious layoff as they consolidate the EQ2 and SWG teams. What we are seeing is SWG2 A Code Base United.
Well I didn't buy EQ2 or a stations pass I bought SWG so I'm not sure I'll want to adjust to this new game. It doesn't offer me the things I look for. I started online games in Jump Gate a pure non-consentual PvP game. That game also offered other professions and I ran a very successful hauling guild. We specialized in carrying risky items from station to station to keep combat players supplied. We also excelled in negotiations to reduce ourselves as potential targets. Even with all that we still carried weapons on those tows and got the best defenses possible so we could survive an encounter if it occurred. That is RP in a combat game not maximize your health and stats and go click on someone. Not make it so non-combat players are totally indefensable on their own.
I think the change is definitely suit driven and has two fact points they are basing it on. The first is EQ2 must be more successful so they think making this the same will retain and grow players and second getting the games on a common code base means they can cut head count and increase profit. I expect we will see this go live and then a serious layoff as they consolidate the EQ2 and SWG teams. What we are seeing is SWG2 A Code Base United.
Well I didn't buy EQ2 or a stations pass I bought SWG so I'm not sure I'll want to adjust to this new game. It doesn't offer me the things I look for. I started online games in Jump Gate a pure non-consentual PvP game. That game also offered other professions and I ran a very successful hauling guild. We specialized in carrying risky items from station to station to keep combat players supplied. We also excelled in negotiations to reduce ourselves as potential targets. Even with all that we still carried weapons on those tows and got the best defenses possible so we could survive an encounter if it occurred. That is RP in a combat game not maximize your health and stats and go click on someone. Not make it so non-combat players are totally indefensable on their own.
Chessack
Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:54 am
#59
So it looks like when they said, "Yes BF is still in the game" they were speaking literally, but not practically. If you don't get BF from wounds any more just exactly how much BF healing XP is there going to be available for people to even get? I can't imagine any newb ever making it to master once this goes live. How long is it going to take? I mean as it was it took way longer to get the last few healing boxes than to finish knowledge... now you'll be capped on knowledge with all 8 knowledge boxes filled and still have 5 or 6 (or more?) healing boxes to fill out -- half of which are for healing wounds that no longer exist!
And people want to know why the entertainers are gone from this game, and why the few left are mostly ready to give up.
This is why.
C
And people want to know why the entertainers are gone from this game, and why the few left are mostly ready to give up.
This is why.
C
Rabenschwinge
Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:40 pm
#60
Esharra wrote:
<I don't know that 8 per group will be a permanent situation.Thanks for the numbers guys..keep em coming. (I'm reading like mad..lots to catch up on)Message Edited by Esharra on 04-01-2005 10:05 PM
As far as I know only a group lead by a squad leader may have more members... which is of course just a rumor, but a plausible one. It fits into the interdependency scheme.
Rabenschwinge
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:42 am
#61
I got the feeling that (health-)wounds and BF are taken out of the current testing phase for a simple reason: They are both connected, and since there aren't doctors yet (since doctor is an elite profession) there would be no way to heal wounds.
If that would be the case BF would return with the elite professions...
If that would be the case BF would return with the elite professions...
Panthu
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:33 am
#62
Rabenschwinge wrote:
If that would be the case BF would return with the elite professions...
Well, we're pretty much seeing BF the way the Devs said it should be accruing.
My husband says he's getting 1 BF for each wound still... and the wounds are just really slow now. Like in six hours of straight combat, he got three wounds and three BF. So, that pretty much jives with what they explained to us at the Summit last summer.
I guess it could change in the next stage of testing, but this seems right.
Anoewyn
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:25 am
#63
Panthu wrote:
Rabenschwinge wrote:
If that would be the case BF would return with the elite professions...
Well, we're pretty much seeing BF the way the Devs said it should be accruing.
My husband says he's getting 1 BF for each wound still... and the wounds are just really slow now. Like in six hours of straight combat, he got three wounds and three BF. So, that pretty much jives with what they explained to us at the Summit last summer.
I guess it could change in the next stage of testing, but this seems right.
Good grief - that is a real concern. How are levelling entertainers supposed to progress? If this BF accrument rate goes live, there will be even less incentive for people to pick up the Red Shoes unless they also make adjustments to the xp requirements.
We can only hope
Petronela
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:28 am
#64
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_concept&message.id=24840#M24840
sorry, dont know how to make a clickie-thingie
Deli'ah
Eaca
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:43 am
#65
Ouch... novice is same as master hmm? so for an extra 91 skill points, 28 of which do nothing, I get to buff them a bit faster? No thanks, I don't even see buff bots keeping double masteries any more, why when you can do the same thing at novice entertainer and free up a bunch of skill points for other utility professions like merchant. Heck, even if we can't buff ourselves XP grinders can just add novice ent to thier templates and buff each other, AND heal thier own BF, yay, no more need for career entertainers!