Dancer Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade Dancer Concerns
PoetDancer
Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:23 pm
#53
BF is very, very slow to accrue. I have played for about 20 hours on TC5, cloned, died and incapacitated more times than I can count, and I ended up with a grande total of THREE BF. One could by this measure install the software, go through their one month free, and leave without ever needing to see a cantina worker.
ChaoKuang
Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:15 pm
#54
At this rate I'd almost say take the skillpoint and XP cost out of the profession. Make the dances and flourishes and songs available to everyone. Unless they change the way BF works, people are going to be in the cantina for ages trying to get healing XP. Not only that, there will be multiple groups in cantinas fighting for attention and XP, which means more people will spam and crowd around the entrance to the cantina in order to be noticed first.
Even I have a hard time being positive in the face of this. I love the CU from the standpoint of someone who does combat. As an entertainer, it's a nail in our coffin. The new songs and dances came out just in time for this, and this is why--to keep us here. No more mind wounds, and BF accrues far too slowly for entertainers to get any real experience until someone gets so much they decide to come see us.
At this rate, it makes me think they gave us the new songs and dances to keep us happy until they can completely phase us out of the entire game as a failed experiment. That looks to be the path they're taking. They get rid of our wound healing skills, but don't take the time to replace our wound healing tree with something else whatsoever. I haven't even heard that they are going to replace it with anything, nor have I heard any dev discussion on what it would be replaced with. And if they're waiting to see what we think, it's a lot of bull, because then they'll get our opinions, and in about two years we'll get our tree revamped.
I think they should just stop fooling us already. When we start getting incensed to the point of leaving, they'll release a new song and dance, and then that's it. Just make the dances and songs and flourishes available to all and be done with it. At least that way, I'd still be able to go to a cantina, dance, play, relax, and have my fun without dealing with the frustrating re-grind.
Has anyone else thought about how much of a pain it will be to get the ONE MILLION xp needed to Master Dancer, Entertainer, Musician, or ID once the CU hits?
EsclavoTKM
Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:31 pm
#55
I am kinda scared that entertainers are just going to become window dressing 
I played on TC for quite some time and got absolutely NO BF whatsoever. They are going to have to do some hardcore thinking about the future of entertainers in SWG. For the first time, I am actually very unsure how I feel about keeping dancer, even for the aesthetics.... just not worth it.
I played on TC for quite some time and got absolutely NO BF whatsoever. They are going to have to do some hardcore thinking about the future of entertainers in SWG. For the first time, I am actually very unsure how I feel about keeping dancer, even for the aesthetics.... just not worth it.
Tarquinas Galaxy ~ Teras Kasi Master/Master Doctor ~
Esharra
Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:35 pm
#56
Concerns above this point are noted.
Thanks so much for the feedback guys. Please..go to this thread and post your verbatim. Please continue to post on every daily thread. And please keep in mind: this is very early in the beta process. We're going to keep the devs informed of our problems and make sure they know that this won't work. Right now it's self evident that they're focused strictly on getting the combat part working, and changes to other professions that are affected will likely happen later in the process. I'm grateful for all your hardwork and dedication. Please keep the feedback coming!
Thanks so much for the feedback guys. Please..go to this thread and post your verbatim. Please continue to post on every daily thread. And please keep in mind: this is very early in the beta process. We're going to keep the devs informed of our problems and make sure they know that this won't work. Right now it's self evident that they're focused strictly on getting the combat part working, and changes to other professions that are affected will likely happen later in the process. I'm grateful for all your hardwork and dedication. Please keep the feedback coming!
Warryyr
Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:02 am
#58
Clicky.
Ileanna777 wrote:
If you have not already, check out Aleyo's post on the Musicians Board. Phydeaux posted a really good FAQ on what will be happening with Dancers and Musicians. Phydeaux being a Dev. Would clicky it if I knew how =oP
SpinningCloud
Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:48 pm
#59
I too am a Master Dancer and TKM and have similar concerns.
I would suggest the following;
1. Fix the too slow BF accumulation, this seems like a bug to me.
2. Decrease the number of skill points required to master our profession so that we can put more skill points into combat or other professions skills. This would let those of us interested in dancer/combat combinations be more competitive with max health.
3. Rework our wound healing branch such that it is useful in other areas; for example turn it into a 'Movement' branch that gives bonusess to melee and ranged defenses and to terrain navigation. We already get a bonus at Master to the defenses so this would fit in nicely. The terrain navigation bonuses would replace the need to take up Scout just to move faster...which as dancers we should be able to do anyway.
The advantage of these suggestions is that it requires little effort on the part of the devs. Getting them to expend much effort in light of the upcoming release seems unlikely.
CandiDance
Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:34 am
#60
This is a Dancer issue even though its a combat issue.
Why are dancers being treated in a vacum like they do not interact with the games combat areas?
While that maybe true for the SOE encouraged buff bots it is not true for a huge number of the ATK dancers. This is suppose to be Star Wars. I guess Princess Leia was viewed as a second class character that didn't get involved in combat? Right?
The point here is that consideration of combat skills should apply to every profession in the game. Do they all get special moves?- No. But they all should get somedefence and attack modifiers that stack as they progess in that profession-Yes.
Right now there is a golden oppertunity here, in that some trees of dancer will be dead with the CU. This is a chance to fill them in with some passive combat skills (i.e. not special combat moves). There is an oppertunity here to make the Dancer profession more combat survivable in the game.
The issue is dancer interaction in combat. To my knowledge "dancers in combat" isn't even a topic of consideration. Failure of SOE to consider this as a viable discussion point is impacting game play for a lot of dancers. Of course its not all dancers, there are enterainment only players and there are buff bots. But, just becuase it isn't all doesn't mean we should be ignored. Their concept that non-combat professions are pure non-combat is flawed from a game play and gameenjoyment issue.
Defensive skills for advanced non-combat masters could help to off set the unfairmassive increase in hit points by those that have two combat profession masters.
I apologize if this seems like a rant. But it becomes frustartingthere is this persent concept in the CU that we are chained to cantina dance floors.
Esharra
Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:00 am
#61
I'm on this (along with everythingon the list)andspeaking of this particular point, itis being reconsidered. Best to keep concerns to the concerns thread and rants to a minimum..ranting about things you want to see changed tends to make people uncooperative.
ChiiTWINS wrote:
Not to mention my NS bicep. Things won't be pretty if I can't wear that.
EsclavoTKM
Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:54 am
#62
After playing Es'clavo on TCBria for a bit, can anyone tell me if I am just crazy??????????????? But did anyone notice that the flourishes and base dances seemed a lot more "fluid"? If I'm not crazy, this is actually a good thing. I will be testing that some more today. One of the most important things to me is that I look good doing what I do on my toon 
My biggest concern is still the entertainer healing issue. The inspiration buff still only provides 10 ent healing experience a tic while giving the buff.
Also, BF is still hard to get.
Those two things really need to be addressed cause I don't think I could recommend to anyone to ever start up dancing or musician with conditions such as these.
A secondary concern to entertainer healing is the group size. I know they are trying to say a smaller group size will make it easier to create combatant content, but that leaves entertainers in the dark.
Not that I like to wear armor, but I do know a lot of entertainers do, especially the nightsister bicep, factional type armors, etc. The certifications really need to be looked into. I realize this is a "combat" issue, but again, most of the combat issues effect everyone.
My biggest concern is still the entertainer healing issue. The inspiration buff still only provides 10 ent healing experience a tic while giving the buff.
Also, BF is still hard to get.
Those two things really need to be addressed cause I don't think I could recommend to anyone to ever start up dancing or musician with conditions such as these.
A secondary concern to entertainer healing is the group size. I know they are trying to say a smaller group size will make it easier to create combatant content, but that leaves entertainers in the dark.
Not that I like to wear armor, but I do know a lot of entertainers do, especially the nightsister bicep, factional type armors, etc. The certifications really need to be looked into. I realize this is a "combat" issue, but again, most of the combat issues effect everyone.
SpinningCloud
Sun Apr 17, 2005 10:17 am
#63
I've been playing with a Master Dancer / TKM on test and the HUGE problem for me is the lack of health and the lack of decent defenses.
With just those two masters I have 2000 health. I can take a line of polearm and get it up to 2200 but that is still significantly lower than the max of 3000.
Additionally the melee and ranged defense numbers are horribly low. Master Dancer gives us SOME bonus in those areas but it is not NEARLY enough to make up for the lack of a 2nd combat mastery.
I suggest the following justified by the fact that we're DANCERS hence in top physical shape. Additionally there is reasonable RL martial arts justification for dance being directly related (Chinese Lion Dance was originally meant for clandistine practice of martial arts for example).
1. Spread out more melee and ranged defense bonuses throughout our tree. Spreading them out will prevent dabblers from enjoying all the bonuses from only one line.
2. Give a +800 bonus to health at Master Dancer. This in combination with one combat Mastery and one additional line of elite combat profession will total 3000.Placing it all in the Master box willremove dabblers from enjoying such a large bonus to health.
--Qilue-UCW--
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:19 am
#64
SpinningCloud wrote:
I suggest the following justified by the fact that we're DANCERS hence in top physical shape. Additionally there is reasonable RL martial arts justification for dance being directly related (Chinese Lion Dance was originally meant for clandistine practice of martial arts for example).
- Spread out more melee and ranged defense bonuses throughout our tree. Spreading them out will prevent dabblers from enjoying all the bonuses from only one line.
- Give a +800 bonus to health at Master Dancer. This in combination with one combat Mastery and one additional line of elite combat profession will total 3000.Placing it all in the Master box willremove dabblers from enjoying such a large bonus to health.
QFE...
Makes alot of sence to me I mean really.. an Entetainer needsto be HEALTY AND ACTIVE to be turly a good at entertaining (Well, dancers would have to be healthy, not nesssecarly musicians becasue they aren'tas active as a dancer is, but thats really not the issue)
Also, I look at defence as being like, the ability to avoid getting hit.. I think that is something Dancers and musicians would be good at.
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 04-17-2005 12:23 PM
Groovymarlin
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:25 am
#65
Esharra wrote:
I'm on this (along with everything on the list) and speaking of this particular point, it is being reconsidered.
I certainly hope so. I can't understand why they'd convert the NS Bicep to recon armor - even though it's mislabeled as "armor" in Live, it only has 100 condition and offers zero protection. It should be converting to an item of clothing.