Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
akothas
Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:15 pm
#534
DanceRulez wrote:
Once the ability to bot is removed, I doubt as many will actually cancel as many people seem so quick to think. I bet most will continue to keep the accounts for lots if nothing else, and then probably find something else to do with the character to have an alternate profession or support for their main. Of course if it causes someone to quit from the game altogether, then I would say that the game is better off for it because such a person is probably interested only in a limited (or solo) gaming experience and has little or no desire to contribute toward a community experience for other players which is kinda the point of a multi-player online game.
Would I cancel my buffbot account if AFK macros were removed? You are correct, I probably wouldnt simply because Imake enough money to keep paying for him without worrying about it. Some people do not have that option though, if it dosent benifit them enough in game they will cancel. I still need the mechanics, and so do my friends, so I would probably contiue to pay for him even if it means only logging him in whenwe need him. The only difference would be is that the rest of the community that uses him would no longer have that option avaliable, and that would upset alot of people that have nothing to do with buffbots other than getting buffs. It would hurt other peoples gaming expierence thatdepend on the system that is in place as of now. Im not saying they couldnt get over it, but it is a major change. It would slightly hurt the owners of bots and greatly effect the community that uses them, and only benifit a small minority that wants only ATK playing in SWG.
Fact is there are two sides to this issue, and the Devs realize this. They are torn betweentaking macros out to pleasepeople that endorseATK gaming and keeping them to please the community that runs/use them. I will say they are going to do whatever makes them the most money, because that is what business is all about. I dont know the "behind the scenes" of SWG, but if they are considering taking them out, somehow there must be profit in it. Perhaps they havent yet because they see there are making a profit in keeping them ... your guess is as good as mine.
Doriana
Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:19 pm
#535
I remember when the first "recursive macros are going away" thread was posted and there were all those people posting there and here that they reactivated their accounts because of it....
Of course they've probably left again by now, but considering just SAYING the removal is coming brought people back, actually DOING it will bring more back.
So psh. Buffbots hit cancel? Go for it. Because every buffbot account is at the expense of at least 25 live entertainer accounts and at least some of those will return when this is fixed.
I bet there will be a net increase in subscriptions, myself.
Besides, who preferable to have in the game? A bunch of unattended characters who constantly threaten to use 3rd patry macros or people who actually care enough to play their characters?
Of course they've probably left again by now, but considering just SAYING the removal is coming brought people back, actually DOING it will bring more back.
So psh. Buffbots hit cancel? Go for it. Because every buffbot account is at the expense of at least 25 live entertainer accounts and at least some of those will return when this is fixed.
I bet there will be a net increase in subscriptions, myself.
Besides, who preferable to have in the game? A bunch of unattended characters who constantly threaten to use 3rd patry macros or people who actually care enough to play their characters?
Message Edited by Doriana on 12-01-2004 07:22 PM
Bridgebuilder
Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:32 pm
#536
Either we like or dislike afk macros, one thing reamin a fact, they contribute to the community in general.
What i mean is that because of this afk dancer buffing every day in your cantina they come back there over and over again. Becuase this afk dancer buffing people come to get buffed and healed, this again draw other entertainers to the cantina and so on.
what if there was no afk entertainers at all, what about the time you are not online? people would ocme to find a empty cantina and leave again next time they would go elsewhere to look and miss you even if you where online this time.
many professions in this game have tasks that need to be done even if many of the tasks can be boring for them and at times annoying for al others.
A afk person shouting an advertisement in Cnet is irritating and annoying most of the time for most people, except the time they actually provided you with the information you needed right there and then.
After the jedi rewamp it have been a exlosion in entertainers, once again the FS grind steps in and break the daily life, becuase now entertainers have to gain xp so they can trade it for fore sensitive xp it become once again important and this give us more afk entertainers then normal.
Afk entertainers is not more or less silly then a master doctor in pvp killing and ressing his or her friend over and over or a crafter spending 24 hours a day on one knee surveying, but entertainers are unique in one way, they get increasingly higher xp based on the group they are in so its favorable to be in a big group. without this addition afk entertainers would be afk dancing/playing away from public places.
you dont have to like it, i dont, but this game is depending highly on macros and the ability to loop them take that option away and many sides of the game will dissapear with it, even entertainment.
sometimes we have to be very careful of what we wish for, cause we might get it granted.
we have tools to help with what we dont like /addignore works wonders against the afk announcer you dont want to listen to anymore, or go a place where there is no afk entertainers Ie your own cantina or the city/ guild one.
if you are confident you can draw the customers in without help of the afk entertainers then take your ATK friend with you and make the customers follow you there.
I did and in fact it did work, but at start I logged out every time, and soon after no one came anymore cause they thought no one was there at all, now i are ATK most of the time in my cantina, but when im not my toon remains afk entertaining those that might come by for heals, and you know what people keep comming back and more and more entertainers come by for socializing as well.
DanceRulez
Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:07 am
#537
Once the ability to bot is removed, I doubt as many will actually cancel as many people seem so quick to think. I bet most will continue to keep the accounts for lots if nothing else, and then probably find something else to do with the character to have an alternate profession or support for their main. Of course if it causes someone to quit from the game altogether, then I would say that the game is better off for it because such a person is probably interested only in a limited (or solo) gaming experience and has little or no desire to contribute toward a community experience for other players which is kinda the point of a multi-player online game.
psycocat
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:04 pm
#538
Bridgebuilder wrote:
Either we like or dislike afk macros, one thing remains a fact, they contribute to the community in general.
WhatI mean is that because of this afk dancer buffing every day in your cantina, they come back there over and over again. Becuase this afk dancer buffing people come to get buffed and healed, this again draws other entertainers to the cantina and so on.
Buffbots have been driving entertainers away from cantinas, not towards them. AFK entertainers cannot keep people coming back either. There are many who became entertainers to entertain. This means they want to interact at least a little bit with other entertainers and more importantly with their customers.
What if therewere no afk entertainers at all?
I would and dobuff my mind pool with food and drink and fight smarter using specials when needed.
What about the time you are not online?
I would expect people to think smarter about how they will complete their next activity. People can also do with entertainer what many do withmedic namelygrabing novice entertainer to heal when entertainers are not available.
People wouldcome to find an empty cantina and leave again. Next time they would go elsewhere to look and miss you even if you where online this time.
This happens anyways with buffbots. An entertainer can be doing everything possible to attract customers but will be ignored because the buffbot is free.
Many professions in this game have tasks that need to be done even if many of the tasks can be boring for them and at times annoying for all others.
There is a saying from Mexico that is appropriate to what you just said: "you go to the party when it is raining because you want to go." In other words there is nothing that will stop someone from doing what they enjoy doing. If a player does not like getting to master [profession], then that player should look for another profession. If there are none that the player enjoys the player is then obligated to accept things as they are or find a game he/she enjoys. If a player does not like the many different quests given by NPCs at say theme parks then the player does not do them.
An afk person shouting an advertisement in Coronet is irritating and annoying most of the time for most people, except the time they actually provided you with the information you needed right there and then.
One message is annoying. Two are noise pollution. Shouting the samething every minute or less is down right rude. Saying something more will not attract more customers. It is also in my experience that spammers do not give needed information. The few that I have listened to have not given me directions to good deals. Instead I have been driven to places where the prices are too high to reasonable. It is rare to find one that takes into consideration spam and prices. Also if people are looking for things they are more likely to go to the live seller because they can ask the seller quetions and get immediate responses.
After the jedi rewamp there has been an exlosionof entertainers, once again the FS grind steps in and breaks the daily life, becuase now entertainers have to gain xp so they can trade it for force sensitive xp.It becomes once again important and this gives us more afk entertainers then normal.
After the jedi revamp there were not more entertainers, but less. There was a time were walking into the Coronet cantina was like walking into a mosh pit. There are considerably fewer entertainers in the game now. Those that are left are those who do not want to grind back to a combat profession to make jedi or entertainers with stars in their eyes.
Afk entertainersare not more or less silly then a master doctor in pvp killing and resing his or her friend over and over or a crafter spending 24 hours a day on one knee surveying, but entertainers are unique in one way, they get increasingly higher xp based on the group they are in so its favorable to be in a big group. Without this addition afk entertainers would be afk dancing/playing away from public places.
AFK entertainers can just as easily go to out of the way places to grind. The additional experience is not so great to warrant constant absence in a group. Entertainers, like in any business, compete with each other for business. The pressence of AFK entertainers in the open draws business away from those who are not.
However AFK entertainers, purely AFK entertainers can help groups as is meantioned here. This is differenciated by buffbots. Buffbots do not want to help the entertainer community. They are in fact detrimental to it. Buffbots do not want and refuse to join entertainer groups and report those who invite them to one. They harm the entertainer economy by under cutting buff prices to such a degree that the buff is of no worth. This comes from them not being there to ensure that they are paid. Because they are constantly absent the AFK buffbot teaches the general public that entertainers are no more than robotic vending machines that give free stuff. There are many here on this board that have shared their stories of how they were treated as a robot, or worse, a slave.
You don't have to like it,I don't, but this gamedepends highly on macros and the ability to loop them. Take that option away and many sides of the game will dissapear with it, even entertainment.
Macros are not that important to this game. Macros are parsley on the dinner plate. Parsley may make it look nicer but it in no way increases the true value of the meal. Achieving master does not require looping macros, nor repetative motion. As a fencer, I can go out and earn 17k without macros. I can dual someone without macros. As a dancer, I can do a flourish every five seconds just as easily without the macro. Macros are jewelry, notclothing and should be treated as such. Without macros people would continue to play this game, entertianers will continue to entertain.
Sometimes we have to be very careful of what we wish for, 'cause we might get it granted.
We have tools to help with what we dont like: /addignore works wonders against the afk announcer you don't want to listen to anymore, or go a place where thereare no afk entertainerslike your own cantina or the city/guild one.
The issue is not entertaining in an empty player city cantina. The issue is trying to perform to the genral public. To do so entertainers must go to where the public is, not the other way around. If there were no non-player city cantinas this would be possible, but it is not.
If you are confident you can draw the customers in without help of the afk entertainers then take your ATK friend with you and make the customers follow you there.
AFK entertianers do not help to draw in customers anyway. It is also not possible to make anyone do anything. If the customers are going to do anything, most will follow the tried and true method of taking the easier route of staying in the cantina where they already are. Then again there are those who want to relax and stay in one spot. They are tired and do not want to move. Asking them to move again may be percieved as rude.
I did and in fact it did work, but at start, I logged out every time, and soon after no one came anymore 'cause they thought no one was there at all. NowI amATK most of the time in my cantina, but when I'm not my toon remains afk entertaining those that might come by for heals, and you know what?People keep coming back and more and more entertainers come by for socializing as well.
It is good to hear that this worked for you. You had a cantina to place anda city and/or guild to support you. However most players do not want to go out of their way to get healed. They are looking for ways to avoid time sinks that prevent them from doing what they enjoy in the game.
Also entertainers are there to entertain. Anyone can twirl a bit or play a song. A CD is just as good as an AFK musician. What is being sought is entertainment by a great number of those who took up novice entertianer. This group of folks enjoy putting a smile on the face of others, including themselves. They look to entertain those needing healing and other entertainers. A dancer with a pet can do this without having to heal you because the player is not used to seeing a dancing pet. A poet can do the same with a well written, and probably macroed,song. The goal is to entertain for these people.
Finally, how do more entertainers come to socialize with a pixelated, nonresponsiveprogram?
P.S. Yes I edited all the typos from the previous post. Some of them made it extremely hard to read and leave the reader thinking the poster is not very intelligent.
Message Edited by psycocat on 12-02-2004 10:07 PM
lekkuboogie
Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:53 am
#540
I was told /join is essential now to grouping ships in space 
I often wondered if there could be an option to commence buff with a pop-up like the one we get on destroying a structure, a random sequence to key in to have the buff set. Grouped or on /setperf, this seems like it would work? Yes it would be kind of a pain, but not worse than slicing is now, and worth having to do for a live entertainer to be viable.
I dont know, I don't program...just a thought.
Sunjammer
Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:03 am
#541
I don't think it would even need the random number thing. As far as I know it's impossible to macro buying a shuttle ticket, or those surveying popups. As long as you can't hit ENTER, it would be enough.
But the idea of buffing or healing popups, or an interface like the IDs have, has never been popular. There are exceptions, but whenever an idea like this gets proposed most of the responses are along the lines of not wanting to be distracted from performing or interacting. I think I'd fall into that camp myself. We dance. Our friends make music. It's the patron who heals or buffs himself, by enjoying the performance.
No, it's looping macros that've got to go. When all's said and done, a macro that loops is a convenience, not a necessity. It's pure laziness to be unwilling to restart a macro every ten minutes or so. None of my dance macros loop; they send me a /tell when they're done. I experimented with a brawler awhile back, and my CoB macro worked the same way.
J.
Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera
This random sig quote is brought to you by an actual Delta Airlines flight attendant:
"There are two smoking sections on this flight, one outside each wing exit. We do have a movie in the smoking sections tonight, it's Gone with the Wind."
But the idea of buffing or healing popups, or an interface like the IDs have, has never been popular. There are exceptions, but whenever an idea like this gets proposed most of the responses are along the lines of not wanting to be distracted from performing or interacting. I think I'd fall into that camp myself. We dance. Our friends make music. It's the patron who heals or buffs himself, by enjoying the performance.
No, it's looping macros that've got to go. When all's said and done, a macro that loops is a convenience, not a necessity. It's pure laziness to be unwilling to restart a macro every ten minutes or so. None of my dance macros loop; they send me a /tell when they're done. I experimented with a brawler awhile back, and my CoB macro worked the same way.
J.
Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera
This random sig quote is brought to you by an actual Delta Airlines flight attendant:
"There are two smoking sections on this flight, one outside each wing exit. We do have a movie in the smoking sections tonight, it's Gone with the Wind."
DeathsEgo
Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:42 am
#542
/ui action defaultButton does accept the group invite, and ID stuff, as well as survey popup, and ticket purchases (last two may have reciently been changed to not be automatically selected on one option) So Looping macro's are whats needed to go away IMO
akothas
Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:05 pm
#543
psycocat wrote:
P.S. Yes I edited all the typos from the previous post. Some of them made it extremely hard to read and leave the reader thinking the poster is not very intelligent.
Message Edited by psycocat on 12-02-2004 10:07 PM
Thought Id point this out before you think someone is not intelligent because of their spelling and grammer.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg THE PAOMNNEHAL PWEOR OF THE HMUAN MNID. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it woutht porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig, huh?
So much for all the spelling tests we ever had...
Doriana
Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:20 pm
#544
psycocat wrote:I never thought of having my macros send me a /tell when they where over. THanks for the tip.
I got annoyed with having my macro steal my replies so I changed mine to a /echo **BUFF DONE**, which works as well. I keep forgetting how to put oclored text in but I believe you could use /# or #\ or whatever it is
to color the /echo message.
psycocat
Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:37 pm
#545
akothas wrote:
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdgnieg THE PAOMNNEHAL PWEOR OF THE HMUAN MNID. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it woutht porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig, huh?
So much for all the spelling tests we ever had...
It still looks stupid. Also, when reading if I have to stop to try and figure out what a word or phrase says I lose the flow and often the point of what is being said. The same is true with that gibberish you quoted there.
BlueGalaxy
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:01 am
#546
Disclaimer: I do not AFK my dancing. <smile> I love to entertain, even though with my Master ID and Master Tailor, I'll never be able to master the Dancing profession as I'd like to. (SOE! you don't give us enough points - and only one character per server? Bah! Prehistoric! This is my sixth online game and the first one where I can't have more than one character per server. But I digress.....)
Most of the offenders who run buffbots merrily go their way, buffing, standing in the entrance to cantinas (if by a miracle, they are at the keyboard for a change - being rude to people who try to say anything about their entrance-hogging spiels and macros). They are NOT visiting these boards. They're NOT entertainers, you know; they are running these things as vending machines, not as a profession. Do you go to a forum to see what a vending machine might have to say? Do you think buffbot operators care what live performers have to say? They will only care if THEIR "real" profession is ruined by buffbots - not before.
And this nonsense of cluttering up the entrances to cantinas. I can only think none of them have left the confines of whatever room their computer is in. What nightclub, theater, cantina, store, etc. sets up their main exhibition in the entrance?