Dancer Archive
Thread: Suggestion: Entertainer /dia equivalent
Page 4 of 4
Drygo
Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:55 pm
#40
PoetDancer wrote:
Unless of course he goes AFK, and that is the main reason many of you want this tool. But then again, when was it ever our responsibility to service the unattended? Are we so quick to condem unattended providers, and yet willing to embrace and make being an unattended audience member just that much more of an option to our customers?
Of course, we disagree about who does the healing, so I won't get into that part. 
But, true, it's not our responsibility to heal the unattended. I just like to do so. I like to be courteous. I like to think even if someone is afk, they might remember me. I have gotten a tip or two on occasion for staying around to heal someone completely even if they were afk. I enjoy my role as a "healing" dancer, and like to provide that service to the fullest extent whenever possible. It's...just part of why I dance, and what makes me feel good about being a dancer.
On the other hand, I don't take kindly to rude people who blame me for things. You say you don't like when people blame you for things beyond your control. My response to people who currently blame me, and to those very few who might blame me should we get a /dia command would be, "shut the h*ll up, moron." My point is, I wouldn't tolerate the blame, so it wouldn't matter to me if they blamed me or not. I wouldn't consider these people to be worth my time, or likely to tip me in the first place. 
Petronela
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:27 am
#41
I have to agree with Drygo and Ikewe on this one.
True in many cases it would be most beneficial command to have while healing someone who is AFK and yes I know I am under no obligation to dance there till they get back and run off, but I still do it, because I consider it the polite thing to do.
Just to make sure they are healed before I leave.
Having a command letting us know we are being watched and being able to monitor their healing process would, in my book, outweigh a possibility of it being used to grief us.
And even if so I think it would be done by those who like to grief us already, so there is no real difference.
Also, lets face it, majority of non entertainer players have no clue how our profession works and don’t want to know, so most likely they wouldn’t even learn we have a new command/tool.
Deli'ah
True in many cases it would be most beneficial command to have while healing someone who is AFK and yes I know I am under no obligation to dance there till they get back and run off, but I still do it, because I consider it the polite thing to do.
Just to make sure they are healed before I leave.
Having a command letting us know we are being watched and being able to monitor their healing process would, in my book, outweigh a possibility of it being used to grief us.
And even if so I think it would be done by those who like to grief us already, so there is no real difference.
Also, lets face it, majority of non entertainer players have no clue how our profession works and don’t want to know, so most likely they wouldn’t even learn we have a new command/tool.
Deli'ah
Valarena
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:37 am
#42
Doc buffs are push oriented (active buffing) ours are pull oriented (passive, the patron is the one doing something). That said, I would dearly like to have a way to tell what shape my audience is in. The more I think about it, the more I think we wouldn't have any additional responsability since the entertainer buffing/healing would remain pulled by patron not pushed by us.
Valarena
Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:47 am
#43
I love to change clothing (I have different sets of clothing not all BE'd or CAed) and I am an entertainer because I speak too much on missions and I always end up alone
Still, the /dia i wanted is just a total display of the partial available information we have (you actually SEE the mind pimary healing) to be able to see how BF and secondaries go. I'm not going to make a stink I am medic 4/x/x/x on all my toons to have an autoheal on my dance macro so i can just concentrate on my job (entertaining)
Ikewe
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:28 am
#44
I could argue that I am already at a disadvantage because I am a Master Dancer who has maxed out my healing experience. Younger entertainers can see if they are still healing someone so why should I be 'punished' simply because I have been dancing for a longer period of time? (I won't use the O word to describe my age ) I too change clothes and dance stylesconstantly and keep a running conversation with all who will engage me (and sometimes with NPC's who don't). This tool isn't so I can push others out the door. It's so I can push myself out the door. I am not a full time entertainer and right now the system punishes me because of that. But I knew the possibility when I chose this style so I'm willing to continue as I have been. I just thought it was a nice idea that would allow me the opportunity to also know when the patron was done healing.
) I too change clothes and dance stylesconstantly and keep a running conversation with all who will engage me (and sometimes with NPC's who don't). This tool isn't so I can push others out the door. It's so I can push myself out the door. I am not a full time entertainer and right now the system punishes me because of that. But I knew the possibility when I chose this style so I'm willing to continue as I have been. I just thought it was a nice idea that would allow me the opportunity to also know when the patron was done healing.Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Aleyo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:53 pm
#45
If I don't actually heal someone, I guess I can go play music in the streets like I've always wanted to, and not worry about anything. Or I can go chat with the bartender instead of manning the nalargon. Cause it's up to the patrons to /listen me anyway, so I don't have any control, I'm not a healer.
No wait, I can't do those things, and my friends can't get healed by me unless I do specific things, and they especially can't get buffed unless I do specific things. Just like I can't buy a weapon off my favorite weaponsmith's merchant unless he makes a weapon and puts it there.
I'm happy to agree that there is dual control in the healing process. It's simply not the case that *only* the customer has control. In fact, the dual control gives us a lot of variety in playstyle. There are those like Sirii who can leave healing as passive as possible, impress her audience, doing her thing while people come to see her. There are others who can do it more actively, maybe join up a group in combat, and then throw up a novice scout tent to gather the others to come get healed and buffed when they think the group's mind bars are getting low - maybe even keeping track of when their buffs will run out, taking a very active role in the process.
Anyways, I don't think this /entDiagnose thing is going to hurt you Sirii, *precisely* because of your current playstyle. You brag on how you can be healing someone for 45 minutes, but because you entertain them, they don't realize they were done being healed 40 minutes ago and they say "wow that was quick" and tip you a lot. If you have gotten people in this state of mind thus far, what makes you think they'll change when you have the ability to check their BF? "Wow! I had so much fun watching you, I didn't even realize I've been here for 45 minutes! Oh, but you should've told me long ago that I was done, since you can check, and despite the fact that you've completely enthralled me, I'm doing to ignore you now".. sorry, I don't buy it.. if they're enthralled by you, they'll still tip you lots of money, and that's awesome (and I don't doubt that you'd still be raking it in, Sirii, without extra effort on your part to change the way you play).
I think this idea benefits a playstyle, and don't think it infringes on any others, so I wouldn't mind seeing it put in.
No wait, I can't do those things, and my friends can't get healed by me unless I do specific things, and they especially can't get buffed unless I do specific things. Just like I can't buy a weapon off my favorite weaponsmith's merchant unless he makes a weapon and puts it there.
I'm happy to agree that there is dual control in the healing process. It's simply not the case that *only* the customer has control. In fact, the dual control gives us a lot of variety in playstyle. There are those like Sirii who can leave healing as passive as possible, impress her audience, doing her thing while people come to see her. There are others who can do it more actively, maybe join up a group in combat, and then throw up a novice scout tent to gather the others to come get healed and buffed when they think the group's mind bars are getting low - maybe even keeping track of when their buffs will run out, taking a very active role in the process.
Anyways, I don't think this /entDiagnose thing is going to hurt you Sirii, *precisely* because of your current playstyle. You brag on how you can be healing someone for 45 minutes, but because you entertain them, they don't realize they were done being healed 40 minutes ago and they say "wow that was quick" and tip you a lot. If you have gotten people in this state of mind thus far, what makes you think they'll change when you have the ability to check their BF? "Wow! I had so much fun watching you, I didn't even realize I've been here for 45 minutes! Oh, but you should've told me long ago that I was done, since you can check, and despite the fact that you've completely enthralled me, I'm doing to ignore you now".. sorry, I don't buy it.. if they're enthralled by you, they'll still tip you lots of money, and that's awesome (and I don't doubt that you'd still be raking it in, Sirii, without extra effort on your part to change the way you play).
I think this idea benefits a playstyle, and don't think it infringes on any others, so I wouldn't mind seeing it put in.
PoetDancer
Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:49 pm
#46
My goodness dears, I told youall that youcan push for the stupid command to be part of this class. But you'll never convince me its in the profession's interest. It may be in the interest of some of the professionals here (maybe many of the professionals here) but not the profession.
This has the potential to make this profession most unfun for me. Its going to further redefine what this profession has become: That we aren't entertainers, we are short-order waitstaff. Of that I have no doubt.
But if some of you will be happy if you can heal characters that don't even give you the dignity of being present in the cantina when you are performing, then go for it.
I have nothing more to say on the matter.
Aleyo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:06 pm
#47
PoetDancer wrote:It may be in the interest of some of the professionals here (maybe many of the professionals here) but not the profession.This has the potential to make this profession most unfun for me. Its going to further redefine what this profession has become: That we aren't entertainers, we are short-order waitstaff. Of that I have no doubt.
The point I would like to make is, no one (with authority) has said that the entertainer profession *shouldn't* be short-order waitstaff. For people who view the profession as such, it is perfectly valid to say that this would be in the interest of their view of the profession. You don't see the profession as that, and you don't want to, but that doesn't mean it isn't that to many people. It doesn't mean it isn't that to the devs (we don't know, although we've been asking).
We're having a discussion about game mechanics. Our game mechanics involve healing right now. They involve buffing. They involve supporting other professions. Should our profession be more like entertainers, less like short-order waitstaff? Maybe so. A lot of people think so. But these are opinions, and it can't be said flatly that something like a /diag command would not be in the interest of the profession. It won't be in some professional's interests, maybe, while it will be in some other professional's interest. But without a clear definition of what we are meant to do in this game, and given only what we know now, this is at best/worst, a change to the profession (I, and others, would argue it's not much of one).
And as far as entertainers' roles fitting roleplaying for entertaining, roleplay in class design can only go so far in a game, as it has to be balanced with making it fit the game, and be useful and/or fun to do. Doctors, for example, probably were in a more roleplay role when they were stuck in hospitals to do their work, but it wasn't fun for many of them, or they weren't as useful, they felt. This is why they were given droids, to make them more useful, and to be able to see more of the world (thus having more fun). I don't know of any real doctor who heals wounds in the streets or goes into the thick of a large battle stopping people from being dizzy.
Anyways, with our revamp coming up, we have an opportunity to flesh out what we want from all this. I personally think it will be hard to make everyone who's currently an entertainer happy. Not necessarily impossible, but probably hard. This serves as an example. A tool that is useful by some who play entertainers, but is thought to harm others who do so as well. And all this from a relatively small change.
I hope we can figure out ways to benefit all and harm none, I really do.
Message Edited by Aleyo on 11-23-2004 05:07 PM
Reachwind
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:23 pm
#48
I still haven't seen any compelling reason why we need this command. Our healing is not active at all. There is no reason we need (and by need I mean that our profession won't work without it) this command. I can see why a couple of you want the command as you are not interested in or feel it is somehow shameful to ask the player you are entertaining when they are done listening or watching you.
How will having this command help me? In what way will it enhance what is needed to put on a show? Will having this command give me timer to indicate how long I must dance to heal or will it just tell me that they still aren't finished seeing me perform. If it's the latter how is that any more effective than my current command, "Hey I have to go, did you need any more time?"
How will having this command help me? In what way will it enhance what is needed to put on a show? Will having this command give me timer to indicate how long I must dance to heal or will it just tell me that they still aren't finished seeing me perform. If it's the latter how is that any more effective than my current command, "Hey I have to go, did you need any more time?"
Message Edited by Reachwind on 11-23-2004 04:23 PM
Drygo
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:14 pm
#49
Reachwind wrote:
I still haven't seen any compelling reason why we need this command. Our healing is not active at all. There is no reason we need (and by need I mean that our profession won't work without it) this command. I can see why a couple of you want the command as you are not interested in or feel it is somehow shameful to ask the player you are entertaining when they are done listening or watching you.
How will having this command help me? In what way will it enhance what is needed to put on a show? Will having this command give me timer to indicate how long I must dance to heal or will it just tell me that they still aren't finished seeing me perform. If it's the latter how is that any more effective than my current command, "Hey I have to go, did you need any more time?"
Message Edited by Reachwind on 11-23-2004 04:23 PM
Simply put, we don't need this command. Our profession is not broken because we don't have this command. Of course, for me anyways, whether or not our healing is active is irrelevant to my thought process. But, I'm not going to come up with all kinds of invalid reasons why we need this command or pretend that we do. That's really not the issue. And, I can certainly see why you personally would not ever find any use from this command or help you personally, in any way.
This is a completely personal, selfish request for me, because it would aid me in the way that I play my character because of the way I play my character. My character wants to heal completely and sometimes would like to know when he's done. And, sometimes the audience member is non responsive. And, whether or not that fits into what you personally feel is valid from someone "watching" you, is again, irrelevant to me. Drygo (me) wants to heal someone completely and efficiently, at certain times, when he is in a rush, and cares not whether the patron stepped away to make a sandwich or not. That's just me, that's just how I play.
A more relevant question to me is the "what harm will it do" question. Sirii has certainly offered up some opinions on how she feels this command would be harmful to our profession. And, as much as I respect Sirii's opinion on a lot of things, I personally am not "buying it," I guess. I hope that doesn't sound snooty or condescending because I don't mean it to be. It's just something that I'm not worried about or concerned about happening. When I go over it in my mind, the risks of having such a command have such an effect that she describes seem minimal at worst.
And if I'm going with the premise that there won't be any harm (or minimal harm), it seems that for me, personally, the benefits of a command such as this outweigh the negatives, and would help me in many situations. I mean, this is actually something I've wished that I've had on numerous occasions. I may not have ever talked about it on the boards before, but I can honestly say that this is a situation that I've had on at least a weekly basis. So,I know that I, personally, would benefit from this in my role as a healer (and TKM, pilot, etc, etc, when I want to be off doing other things besides dancing, but I still take my role as healer seriously).
And, if I believe, which I do, that the negative effects would be extremely low, then the question is more, "why not have this command?" If a portion of the entertainer community would find such a command useful, and it won't harm the rest of the entertainer community, then simply...why not?
Can I live without this? Certainly. Is the profession broken because we don't have it? Not at all. That doesn't mean that I don't want it any more than I don't want to have dancing props....another example of something that is not needed, but would help me as a dancer...except this time in my "performer" role, as opposed to my "healer" role.
That's just how I see it. I don't need it, but I want it. If it never happens, so be it. It's not one of those issues that I'm passionate about by any means. And, we don't know...Sirii could be completely right about this, and if most people think, "oh gosh, this is going to be horrible" than it's not something I would push either. But, after thinking it over, it's just something that I personally would find beneficial, with minimal harm.
Reachwind
Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:16 pm
#50
What is the potential for harm here?
Its only positive you mentioned is a negative to the spirit and concept of the profession. As you pointed out the benefit to you is in healing someone who was not willing to interact with you. To me and many others with a long term interest in these entertainer professions that is the number one most important issue.
Social interaction.
Its only positive you mentioned is a negative to the spirit and concept of the profession. As you pointed out the benefit to you is in healing someone who was not willing to interact with you. To me and many others with a long term interest in these entertainer professions that is the number one most important issue.
Social interaction.
Drygo
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:13 am
#51
Ikewe wrote:
This tool isn't so I can push others out the door. It's so I can push myself out the door.
Yes. Exactly. I had/have no intention of using such a tool to say to the patron, "you're done healing now, thanks, bye." I'll keep them there and not bother even using /dia when I'm just dancing in a Cantina and planning to be there for a long time. I would never even think of using it then, and if anyone asked me to, I'd tell them, "hit ctrl-c."
I want it for me when *I* am in a rush to get out. So, I can do the courteous thing by healing someone and then leave as soon as possible thereafter because *I* have things that *I* need to do.
PS I never looked at this as any way at all to be able to make money. I just want it for myself so that I can be courteous, but then get on with my character's life as soon as possible when I want to do something besides dance.
Message Edited by Drygo on 11-23-2004 12:18 PM
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