Dancer Archive
Thread: Entertainers should loose their buffing ability!
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tofulhasa
Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:59 am
#40
The real problem is that there just aren't that many Master Dancers and even fewer Master Musicians. I'm not too sure whysome people think that we're everywhere. If I remember correctly when they released the breakdown of professions, musicians were 2nd to last most played and dancers were 5th or 6th to last, and while the total numbers may be up due to hologrinders, the number of actual master dancers and musicians have probaly fallen since they released those figures. I realize a lot of people want mind buffs, but the fact is that there are not enough masters out there to meet the demand.
I too have run into the problem with not getting mind buffs even though I've been a Master Dancer since July. Most of the other Master Dancers and Musicians that I "grew up with in Coronet" have left the profession or the game (8 Master Dancers and 3 Master Musicians). The reasons why they left:not earning enough money, nothing left to do once you became aMaster,the game was boring, I like PvP but you need to master a ranged & melee profession in order to compete, the game has been out 8 months and exotic 4 still only has 3 flourishes, etc.
So the real question isn't "Why did SOE give dancers, not doctors, mind buffs?" but "whyare dancers leaving their profession?"
In the meantime, my suggestions are:
1. Try to form a business arrangement with a master dancer/musician. One dancer (albeit it was someone else's buffbot) started a subscription service. You pay a large fee upfront and get buffs anytime you need it.
2. Buy a second account and level up your own dancer/musician bot. That way you'll have access to buffs 24/7
3. Join a PA. There's a good chance someone in the PA has already done #2 thus saving you the hassle
4. Get a buff from non-Master dancer if you can find one that's not afk hologrinding. It's not a 100% buff, but some buff is better than nothing at all.
5. Don't look for Master Dancers/Musicians in Coronet or Theed. We don't need anymore XP so we won't be in those cantinas. The best bet is to see if there's an Entertainer PA on your server and find out which city they're located in.
6. Don't get upset if a buff request is ignored or turned down. Most people have their reasons as others have stated before. I have missed and turned down buff requests in Coronet and Theed because I'm there with a raiding group doing PvP(Mostof that is my fault because I put my Master Dancer tag up instead of Teras Kasi Master).
7.Become a dancer, or evenbetter a musician,to help us meet the demand
nvoigt
Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:48 am
#41
Actually, I do consider all of those to be good reasons. The problem is that if those reasons were being used legitimately, then they would occur within a statistical bell curve of number of times that a player makes a request for a buff. However, the % of denials to actuall requests [if you read the boards or ask around] is way beyond a normal curve. That's what's upsetting so many people.
I wonder ifpeople actually use their brains sometimes. And I don't mean you personally. How many denials to normal (polite) requests are there ? Can you name a single character and a single instance where this character politely asked for a buff and was intentionally ignored or denied ?
Reasons for not getting a buff are:
Looking in the wrong places ( If I look in the wrong places I won't get anything else in this game either )
Being rude ( ever seen a Master Doc buff you after you told him "buff me beetch!" ? I doubt that. )
Not finding any masters ( 40 AFKers do not equal one master )
If you know how to play the game and have some manners, the problem is #3. And that's exactly what we are fighting as well. No real entertainer wants 40 bots in the cantina.
Also, no one has a right to receive a mind buff. If noone is giving them out anymore, you should be able to get stinking rich as an entertainer with the buffing monopoly, right ? Well I challenge you to go out and try that...
I did not find a fighter to do the themepark for me. I even talked to some and told themto "get me loot" and "do da park for me beetches !", but noone responded. I think we should remove the fighting ability from those combateers and put them into entertainer. They aren't using it anyway.
Jasynn
Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:23 am
#42
Breestan wrote:
"-.- Gee. So vague. Like.... "I NEED BUFFS!" That SO tells us what they need."
Come on. If a person is standing in a cantina, or even next to one, shouting "Looking for buffs", you know darn well that they mean 'mind buffs'. People don't go looking around cantinas for Doc buffs. They go to star ports and med centers. The excusses are getting a little flimsy.
Nvoigt wrote:
"Can you name a single character and a single instance where this character politely asked for a buff and was intentionally ignored or denied ?"
I already did. Read my previous posts. I gave the exchange, verbatim. The only thing I lack is the guys name, simply because I hadn't intended on remembering him for anythin.
"Reasons for not getting a buff are:
Looking in the wrong places ( If I look in the wrong places I won't get anything else in this game either )
Being rude ( ever seen a Master Doc buff you after you told him "buff me beetch!" ? I doubt that. )
Not finding any masters ( 40 AFKers do not equal one master )"
Again, come on. How many people actually come up and say "Buff me Beetch!" Your using extreme examples to justify your possition. On the flip side, I am saying that large nimbers of Ent's give inapropriate or onstructive responses. It's a statistical anomoly. As a matter of fact the last quoted post is ridiculous. Every complain by me or another in your forum specifically refers to a cantina incident. The people that we ask are almost always an identified master, and the vast majority of us ask in a polite, r at least a non-rude, manner. I doubt that the players ask entertainers for buffs any different than they ask the Docs.
The problem isn't so much te AFKs [my own thinking has shifted a bit]. The problem is that real Ent's, over all, have no system in place for how to give buffs. People shouldn't always have to be the ones doing all the work and traveling. Most Docs do the buff thing in the same manner. I have never seen an Ent shouting "CURRENTLY BUFFING. 12k FOR FULL 10 MINUTES. Please don't tip until asked to do so. Sit in line. NO REFUNDS!". This is the way most Doc's do business. The do it in Med Centers and they do it on popular hunting planets. I would love to see the addition of a "Road Show' droid so that Ent's could buff in the field like Docs.
If the real Ent's would just get out there and make their service widely available, all lot of the hostility would go away.
"Also, no one has a right to receive a mind buff"
Well, that may be true, but do dancers have a right to be tipped for heals? Do Ents want to be Ents or not? Why would you have a power like mind buffs and not use it? The ability was put in the game to be used, but it is usually an unobtainable goal. My last posts responded to several of your specific posts, yet you have completely ignored them in favor of going back to your [in my opinion...weak] reasons for not buffing people when asked. I have given you constructive advice from someone who buffs players for a living, but you don't seem to want to change anything [except the status of afkers]. This is why you guys get so much hostility and resentment from a large portion of the players. If you did nothing else but shout the above advertising statement, things would change drastically.
nvoigt
Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:56 pm
#43
Again, come on. How many people actually come up and say "Buff me Beetch!" Your using extreme examples to justify your possition.[...] I doubt that the players ask entertainers for buffs any different than they ask the Docs.
Let me ask you then, while buffing for a living, have you ever been licked ? Fondled ? Kissed ? Have you ever reported a player because he came to you and insulted and harrassed you totally out of the blue while you did nothing but standing in a cantina doing your job ? Those extreme examples happen to me at least once a week. I don't think they happened to you at all in months of gameplay. So excuse my pickyness when it comes to people asking for buffs. I only grant services to those with basic manners. That might seem somewhat aloft and elite, but yes, I will not buff people who can't create a simple, uninsulting english sentence. I have never ignored someone coming up to me saying "Hi, can you give me a mind buff ?".
I have given you constructive advice from someone who buffs players for a living, but you don't seem to want to change anything [except the status of afkers].
Well, thanks. I for one don't buff for a living, mostly because I could not live on it, and people told me to "get a real job" besides master entertainer, master dancer and master musician. Now I got a real job and can be picky about who I buff because I don't need the money. And I have already pointed out which criteria I apply. Be able to speak a simple clear plain uninsulting english sentence and you will get a buff for normal prices.
This is why you guys get so much hostility and resentment from a large portion of the players. If you did nothing else but shout the above advertising statement, things would change drastically.
I do have a macro that says I will give out free mind buffs to imperials. Whenever I feel like aiding my side in the conflict, I put on my uniform and go to Theed, an imperial City. I run the macro, like any good doc. the last three times I did this for more than an hour, I got 3 people average that I buffed. 3 in a whole hour. I can already feel the all engulfing demand... not! And those were FREE, no strings attached.
Your theory seems to be based on speculation. My experiement sure isn't the end-all argument, but I think it shows that your theory needs some remodeling.
I always hear that there's so much demand for mind buffs and there are so few entertainers who sell them. If this is true, why not start up an entertainer and get stinking rich in days ? With such a load of demand and so few competitors, it must be a piece of cake. I'm master in both entertainer buffing professions. I'm searchable. If the demand is that high, I'd suppose I'd be swamped in /tells. I'm not.
Breestan
Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:10 pm
#44
Jasynn wrote:
Breestan wrote:
"-.- Gee. So vague. Like.... "I NEED BUFFS!" That SO tells us what they need."
Come on. If a person is standing in a cantina, or even next to one, shouting "Looking for buffs", you know darn well that they mean 'mind buffs'. People don't go looking around cantinas for Doc buffs. They go to star ports and med centers. The excusses are getting a little flimsy.
NO. I do NOT know that's what they want. Do you know why? Because 90% of the timeI can not even SEE this person due to a flood of names. So I don't know if they are there, or somewhere else in the extended radius of a shout. A shout is not just like /say and /whisper. /say has a set range. Shout is extended. So. If I can not see this person in the cantina, and All that I am seeing is a shout, WHY would I think they meant mind buff? As far as I know, they could be 1 meter away, or 60. And if the guy is IN the cantina there is no NEED to shout. It only succeeds in letting people in a 60 meter radius hear him. You shout for a doctot because doctors are not always in one spot. Butif a dancer is 60 meters from the cantina, chances are they are not interested in buffing due to some other business.
So. I can't see this person in existance other than a shout.
This shout could be coming from ANYWHERE in a 60 meter radius and is vaguely asking for a buff.
Again, I can not see this person ANYWHERE in the cantina, (I can /examine but- I can do that to some critter 100 meters away.) and I do not see their chat bubbles.
So. Why would I assume they wanted mind buffs?
Now, if I am one of a few people- and I see the guy run into the cantina and ask for a buff- then duh- he means a mind buff. THe problem is that in many cantinas you can't even get a look at a name before it becomes one with the shifting mass of blue and green (and sometimes purple)
Also- I HAVE had people come up and say "Buff me &*%$#" I've also had them rant about how stupid I was to pick dancer, and how useless we all were.... then be ordered to heal them when I sat down in protest. people running up to me and saying "Dance" is rude. And frankly I don't cater to rude people. Most of us don't.
Yes, it happens. More than you'd think. My permanent list is only 2 names... but one more is close to being added.
Most Docs do the buff thing in the same manner. I have never seen an Ent shouting "CURRENTLY BUFFING. 12k FOR FULL 10 MINUTES. Please don't tip until asked to do so. Sit in line. NO REFUNDS!". This is the way most Doc's do business.
I've seen people shout about selling buffs.
I never will.
A lounge singer doesn't sit on the piano and shout, does she? The only 'advertizement' is a sign outside really. And the /register command does that quite well. (I've been in cantinas with 7 masters, all afk except me and no one registered.) I always try to remember to register in NPC cantinas.
RP does not allow me to shout about what I'm able to do. I will continue to lounge quietly in the cantinas and buff the people who ask me to. But I have no reason to shout it out and add to the immersion ruining spam already out there, thanks anyway. I have standards I've put myself and my character to- and if I am going to roleplay I'll do my darndest to stay in character. And shouting- to me- is like stanidng on a street corner next to a red light. (Don't get all bent out of shape- the end result may be different but the execution is the same)
Oh, yeah, anda person does not have a RIGHT to own that gunmans duster. yet they pay the tailor anyway, right? I never ask for tips, and never have- and if I've ever been in want of money for a new dress I run a few missions. Since I've been able to buff- I only run missions to get out of the same 4 walls. I have not been in want of money.
But I understand where you are coming from, and I understand how it can be frusterating. But like I said, 90% of the time, vague requests will be lost in the fray.
There are very few real master dancers/musicians out there. A lot of those names you see are people who grind for Holo or to be a bot in their personal cantina. There's other reasons too. Some say "I do it so there is always someone there to heal people lalala" But AFK is still AFK and an AFK person has a hard time buffing others, now don't they? (there is a macro for it though I'm told.... oy... If there were a macro for sleeping I'll bet people would use it.)
Kuildeous
Wed Feb 18, 2004 8:00 pm
#45
Breestan wrote:
But AFK is still AFK and an AFK person has a hard time buffing others, now don't they? (there is a macro for it though I'm told.... oy... If there were a macro for sleeping I'll bet people would use it.)
*sigh* Yes, there is a macro for that. I just encountered a Master Dancer on Endor. Full AFK tag. I did an /invite. Sure enough, she eventually joined. Not a single word. She didn't answer me at all.
Although I have to give her some credit. She didn't say a single word. None of this, "Invite me so I can buff you."
Which is kind of disturbing. That basically means that these buff bots are so ubiquitous now that people understand how they are used. They don't need instructions. Looks like my piddly 75% Mind buff won't be doing any business on Endor tonight.
YoursTruly
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:09 am
#46
Jasynn wrote:
Breestan wrote:
"-.- Gee. So vague. Like.... "I NEED BUFFS!" That SO tells us what they need."
Come on. If a person is standing in a cantina, or even next to one, shouting "Looking for buffs", you know darn well that they mean 'mind buffs'. People don't go looking around cantinas for Doc buffs. They go to star ports and med centers. The excusses are getting a little flimsy.
No, you are completely and totally wrong. People wander all over cities looking for a doctor to buff them, even in cantinas. I see it happen all the time. We don't darn well know they mean mind buffs. Most of them are looking for a doctor. How do I know? I used to ask them. Also, how many people tell a doc they are looking for buffs, get them, and then walk away without tipping at all? It happens to dancers a lot. If you want a mind buff, try announcing you are "paying for a mind buff" not "I need buffed!". Just because you don't agree with the reasons people are giving doesn't mean they aren't true. Shock of shocks! Entertainers that spend hours and hours in cantinas just might know more about what happens in cantinas than you do? Amazing!
Nvoigt wrote:
"Can you name a single character and a single instance where this character politely asked for a buff and was intentionally ignored or denied ?"
I already did. Read my previous posts. I gave the exchange, verbatim. The only thing I lack is the guys name, simply because I hadn't intended on remembering him for anythin.
I have seen rude people of many different classes in game. I haven't gone to their forums asking for them to be nerfed.
"Reasons for not getting a buff are:
Looking in the wrong places ( If I look in the wrong places I won't get anything else in this game either )
Being rude ( ever seen a Master Doc buff you after you told him "buff me beetch!" ? I doubt that. )
Not finding any masters ( 40 AFKers do not equal one master )"
Again, come on. How many people actually come up and say "Buff me Beetch!" Your using extreme examples to justify your possition. On the flip side, I am saying that large nimbers of Ent's give inapropriate or onstructive responses. It's a statistical anomoly. As a matter of fact the last quoted post is ridiculous. Every complain by me or another in your forum specifically refers to a cantina incident. The people that we ask are almost always an identified master, and the vast majority of us ask in a polite, r at least a non-rude, manner. I doubt that the players ask entertainers for buffs any different than they ask the Docs.
Then you would be wrong. I haven't seen anyone lick or grope a doctor while asking for a buff. I have seen that happen to dancers. Dancers have nowhere near the same respect in game that doctors receive. People going hunting with a doctor in the group always get doc buffs if they can. I often go hunting with friends and they don't want to take the time or bother to be buffed by me, and that is by my friends. Overall, we are not seen as having near the usefulness of a doctor, and are treated accordingly. You are confusing the fact that because you treat entertainers well that other people are as nice as you are in game. YOU are a statistical anomaly. ^_^ Most people don't give entertainers the respect in game that you appear to when you deal with them.
The problem isn't so much te AFKs [my own thinking has shifted a bit]. The problem is that real Ent's, over all, have no system in place for how to give buffs. People shouldn't always have to be the ones doing all the work and traveling. Most Docs do the buff thing in the same manner. I have never seen an Ent shouting "CURRENTLY BUFFING. 12k FOR FULL 10 MINUTES. Please don't tip until asked to do so. Sit in line. NO REFUNDS!". This is the way most Doc's do business. The do it in Med Centers and they do it on popular hunting planets. I would love to see the addition of a "Road Show' droid so that Ent's could buff in the field like Docs.
If the real Ent's would just get out there and make their service widely available, all lot of the hostility would go away.
We don't want to do business just like docs. Get over it. I don't want to spam shout ads to everyone in the cantina. Did you completely and totally miss that one of the big reasons that people don't like AFK players is the spam? Do you think I as an ATK player want to add to it?
"Also, no one has a right to receive a mind buff"
Well, that may be true, but do dancers have a right to be tipped for heals? Do Ents want to be Ents or not? Why would you have a power like mind buffs and not use it? The ability was put in the game to be used, but it is usually an unobtainable goal. My last posts responded to several of your specific posts, yet you have completely ignored them in favor of going back to your [in my opinion...weak] reasons for not buffing people when asked. I have given you constructive advice from someone who buffs players for a living, but you don't seem to want to change anything [except the status of afkers]. This is why you guys get so much hostility and resentment from a large portion of the players. If you did nothing else but shout the above advertising statement, things would change drastically.
Yes, they would change. The cantinas would be even more spammy and awful than they are already.
And no, we get hostility and resentment from the players because they mostly view us as useless, and treat us in a hostile and resenting manner, telling us we are useless, laughing at us, telling us how much God hates them because they have to master dancer/musician/entertainer for their holo, but after hearing all that, we should be eager to respond to their requests for a service which may or may not be us (it is usually a doctor they are looking for), we may or may not be paid for (they rarely ever mention they are tipping for a buff, it is usually "I need buffs" or "Will you buff me?"), and we get the bonus of getting licked or fondled at times while we do it. You are here telling us how much everyone hates us, and thinks we should have our already very limited abilities limited even more,but when those same people step from on high to allow us to perform a service for them, we should be crawling over each other to do it?
People are people, they get in bad moods. Just because you are nice to someone doesn't mean the people before you were.
Oh, and thanks for the advice from someone who buffs people for a living. We don't want the cantinas more spammy than they already are. If you are happy spamming that you are giving buffs in front of the starport, go for it. It isn't how most of us want to act. Entertainers don't make the money that doctors do buffing, as far as I have seen. What I get tipped isn't worth spamming the cantina advertising.
You talk a lot about us not taking advice, and are quick to blow off advice offered about ways to ask for a buff that might get a better response.
PoetDancer
Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:23 am
#47
I think Doctors should lose their buffing ability, and I'll tell you why:
--They forceme to break away from my dancing and my patrons, because they can't buff me in the cantina.
--They charge so much that a dancer can't get them on their wages.
--They are too busy buffing their PAs for free while I have to wait in line and pay top dollar.
--They are too busy buffing to heal people in the med centres (except the "rollers" that paidbig bucks to actthe fool) and stim people in the cantinas.
--They are too busy buffing to go on missions with a group.
--They are too busy gathering resources for big time buffs to do regular healing, go on groups, or anything else.
--They'd rather sell buffs than cure poison.
......And if you think these reasons are anyworse than yours are, then work to make things BETTER rather than complain. Because frankly, doctors HAVE been healing tumblers rather than patients in the med centre. They HAVE been neglecting poison healing, they HAVE been hoarding resources more than helping people. Yet, I'm just a dancer. My opinion is not important....and unfortunately, you are not the only one who thinks so.
josslyn
Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:55 am
#48
You know, as a Master Dancer when i am dancing and even sometimes not (made plenty of long trips to buff someone, and then not even recieve a tip) I am never afk and will always gladly buff anyone. If you have a problem with a certain cantina (Coronet, Theed are the worst) then simply don't go. But don't sit here and say (granted you may not be on my server) that the ent. community pretty much sucks. Like I said, to anyone on the Gorath server hit me up... i don't mind one bit and will almost always be willing to come buff ya /wink 
Its simply crazy to whine about this issue cause not all of us entertainers are afker's. Flaming about it will just make me keep your name in mind. But as a non-afk dancer i love it... love the convos and interations.
Its simply crazy to whine about this issue cause not all of us entertainers are afker's. Flaming about it will just make me keep your name in mind. But as a non-afk dancer i love it... love the convos and interations. Josslyn
Master Dancer/Novice TKA
Breestan
Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:11 am
#49
Kuildeous wrote:
Breestan wrote:
But AFK is still AFK and an AFK person has a hard time buffing others, now don't they? (there is a macro for it though I'm told.... oy... If there were a macro for sleeping I'll bet people would use it.)
*sigh* Yes, there is a macro for that. I just encountered a Master Dancer on Endor. Full AFK tag. I did an /invite. Sure enough, she eventually joined. Not a single word. She didn't answer me at all.
Although I have to give her some credit. She didn't say a single word. None of this, "Invite me so I can buff you."
Which is kind of disturbing. That basically means that these buff bots are so ubiquitous now that people understand how they are used. They don't need instructions. Looks like my piddly 75% Mind buff won't be doing any business on Endor tonight.
Nono, Really... Sleeping. Not WHILE you sleep- but for sleep itself.. ::gives up hehehe... has ruined the analogy- it was bad anyway bad Tekoa.:: I just meant that people are lazy ^-^ to lazy to even be lazy and if they could have a macro to be lazy... ::slinks off::
Kuildeous
Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:48 pm
#50
Breestan wrote:
Nono, Really... Sleeping. Not WHILE you sleep- but for sleep itself.. ::gives up hehehe... has ruined the analogy- it was bad anyway bad Tekoa.:: I just meant that people are lazy ^-^ to lazy to even be lazy and if they could have a macro to be lazy... ::slinks off::
Worry not. I got your intention but did not address it.
I was answering the comment about an AFK unable to buff.
Those buff bots are out there.
Incidentally, the buff bot I encountered was a nice addition to my group. She didn't say or do anything while I went hunting. And she was too far away to partake in the mission rewards. The quietest groupmate I've had.
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