Dancer Archive

"If the devs intended for every profession in and of itself to be self supporting financiallythen each profession would take 250 skill points instead of many of them taking around 92."

That's a non-sequitur. Skill points have nothing to do with the financial health of a profession. If developers didn't want professions to be self-supporting, why are they called 'professions'? All the people I know who have a mid- to high-leveljob get paid a living wage. Players can have more than one profession in the game because they're not expected to do the same job from month to month. These are skillsets - they are not necessarily jobs. They become jobs when we spend time doing them, and ifI spend a week dancingI should get a fair week's pay. I should notbe forcedto kill critters in the evening if I dance in the morning. That is surely not what the developers intended, since it's completely unrealistic - I don't know any high-level job that's so poorly paid that its employees are urged to find a secondary job. Apart from anything else, it's suicidal to the poorer-paying profession (just as it is in this game).

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Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

I think some of you are confusing the issue. Interdependence and being able to make a living with your chosen profession are not two mutually exclusive ideas. Interdependence among different players is a good thing and a completely seperate issue than having to play a profession that you don't like just to be able to make a living because the profession that you do like doesn't pay the bills.

Docs may have to rely on others for resources, but when they use their skills and sell their buffs, they make money. They do not have to pick up another profession to make money. A dancer, while they don't use resources, still relies on other professions such as chef (for accaragm) and/or doctor (for buffing), tailor for enhanced clothes, etc. That interdepence among different players is a good thing. What is not a good thing is the fact that on some servers, some masters of dance and musician are unable to sell their own skills and make a living.

See the difference?

I agree with most of your points.

"Maybe a revamp of how the entertainer healing works is needed.. no not an ID style interface with mandatory payment, that would kill the profession I think.. "

It worked for ID. That profession is thriving. One of the majorproblems with entertainers is the tip system. It just doesn't work. Few people tip, and that is doing more to kill the cantina professions than all the AFK macroing (though not as much as the buffbot menace). Sure, some entertainers don't need tips - these are usually the folks who have second well-paying jobs. I need the tips. I don't demand them, and I don't spam for them, but I need them all the same. Lately, thanks to the buffbots, tips are getting rarer, yet I'm doing the same healing job I was doing 8 months ago. Nothing has changed on my part, yet tips are drying up big time. It's a slump in the market, and I'm being driven out. Now if I could charge, at least I would feel like I had some control over my work, and I would have some way of ensuring a steadier paycheck. Right now, I might work 6 hours tonight and gain no money. Even if I'm the only entertainer in a place, I might get customers but no money. At least if I could charge, customers would mean money in my pocket. After all, I don't want to gouge anyone. I've always offered a low rate with all my characters in every game I've played. I just want to be able to afford a few ofthe standardperks that everyone else seems to have in abundance. I realise I've chosen a limited profession, but surely my $15 investment deserves better than this - after all, I don't get a discount for playing an entertainer.

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Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

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Part of the problem with what you suggest is the fact that almost nobody tips these days, and typically those people who do tip manage to tip a measly sum of money. I'm one of those dancers who gave up trying to subsidize my living with just dancing. I've picked up some elite combat classes to have fun with, at my pace (hence the reason I've not mastered them yet). I know how much money a person can make in four hours running rather simple missions, by themselves on advanced planets. Yet, these very same people drop - if we're lucky - 1K in tips for healing. So, let's talk somemath here. Typically, if you're dancing some place, you'll see maybe 10 people if you're on an advanced planet in an hour. If you're lucky, three of those will tip you in that hour.

So, we're talking 3K in tips in one hour of dancing (just for healing - not including buffs). Now, compare that to a combat class running just giant biz natch missions on dath for 11K a mission. You can probably take down 4 to 6 in an hour with little problems. Let's just low ball this and say 4.

A combat class can make around 44,000 credits in an hour, in comparison to the entertainer's 3,000. That's a 41,000 credit difference. If both of these people were masters of their profession, you're talking about people having dedicated around the same number of skill points. Most Elite Combat professions take around 92 points, and Dancer takes 104. That's not a big difference in the amount of skill points used. But, the pay rate between the two is tremendous.

Now, I know I did not include buffs in the above, but let's just face it.. even if a Master Dancer is advertising, they rarely get requests to actually buff. At least that's been my experience. So, any cash that would come from buffing is very rare for me. However, with the influx of buffbots who can't monitor exactly who has paid and who hasn't... the ability for dancers and musicians to actually make money off that trade is going to shrink substantially. That's largely due to the fact that people in this game are largely wanting everything for themselves when they want it. They won't want to wait for an actual person to do anything.

The fact that there are some dancers/musicians/entertainers who would like to make a living without turning to crafting, or combat, or being a medic of some sort means that they should be able to make a comprabable living compared to someone who is a Master Pistoleer (and say for arguments sake that they are just this profession and have not spent the rest of their skill points).

Oh.. and whoever said Carbineer was a poor combat class... I think it's rather great. I had quite a lot of fun taking some Jedi down with my measly carbineer skills (3-0-0-2).

Actually, Rayill... many of the combat classes are making much, much more than that.

I started doing pistols on the side some time ago for variety... going out for some PvE combat was, and is, a good way for me to relax after a hard night at the cantina (yes, it sounds backwards, but it's true ) And in time, I've mastered pistoleer.

Now, pistoleers areone of, if not the, least effective combat classes, as our damage output is just too low. So, I'm by no means "uber" out doing missions. Pistols just kill slowly compared to most other combat classes.

That said, I can get into a 'solo group' to get very high level missions for much higher pay per run, and solo them for full payout. Janta and Mokk missions on Dantooinedone this way pay 31k-33k apiece. And I, slow mission pistoleer that I am, can make anywhere from 500-750k in less than 3 hours on one set of buffs. A TKM can make easily an additional 25% or more on top of that amount in the same amount of time. And that's just with a single elite combat profession... not even talking about interesting complimentary templates.

All of your statements about combat professions pulling in the money are correct, except for the probably too low amounts they really can pull in. If I, master dancer with a gun, can go out making anaverage of 200k per hour, what do you think someone who's dedicated all their skill points to maximizing combat capabilities could pull in that same amount of time?

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I know that alot of people go out and run much higher missions. I tend to run missions out of Dath when I run them, and I stick with just the lowly giant baz nitches. It's not 30K+ a mission, but it's good xp for the amount they pay. I know most combat people make much more than that. I was just giving low-end figures in comparison. I've got friends who can go out and make over 500K in cred in a few hours.

So, if you look at it, a person can go out and make anywhere between 50K to 200K in an hour running combat missions with just one mastered combat profession. Yet, a Master Dancer/Musician is lucky to pull in maybe 3K? Maybe more on a lucky day? That's not equitable or comprable for the skill point investment. Those people who wish to play dedicated and pure entertainers should be offered a comprable and equitable source of income that pays as well as the Combat Professions.

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Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.