Dancer Archive
Thread: Hold the Devs accountable. And, report the broken dance.
DarkY0da
Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:02 pm
#40
NewJedi wrote:
Jeesh, Panthu, I didn't realize you'd been told that. That is NOT good. I haven't been told anything like that.We *did* get some unusual instructions relating to JTL and the NDA that I never completely understood. But I was never told to shut up.
Then again,I've had less to complain about.The Musician side of the quest is obviously in much better shape: it gives us arguably the best song in our entire repertoire. One of the best, for sure. The only real issue is the XP requirement, and it doesn't surprise me that the devs wouldn't budge on that. The song is worth every ounce of that XP, at least to me it is. It sounds like the dance isn't, though I myself do plan to get it.
Anyway, I hope you hang in there, Panthu. These dancers here need you, and you are an excellent and tireless advocate for their cause.
Yes but MOST of us did not like the xp cost at all. And ya know we all most likely would have just sucked it upped and went with it if we had got feedback about the cost and why we have it for the only content we have got and the only addition that takes freakin 400k xp to get.
Message Edited by DarkY0da on 10-16-2004 10:37 PM
DarkY0da
Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:10 pm
#41
Panthu wrote:
Groovymarlin wrote:
Panthu/NewJedi/Tiaga, any insight...
My own threads on the subject were locked or deleted both in here and in the Corr forum on this and two other issues: harassment and the Mind Buff Crystal given in the FS Village quests.
Speaking of the freakin Buffing Crystal... from what I can tell they can be traded/sold.. So you could have a group of people sharing them.
tuls
Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:34 pm
#42
DarkY0da wrote:
Panthu wrote:
Groovymarlin wrote:
Panthu/NewJedi/Tiaga, any insight...
My own threads on the subject were locked or deleted both in here and in the Corr forum on this and two other issues: harassment and the Mind Buff Crystal given in the FS Village quests.
Speaking of the freakin Buffing Crystal... from what I can tell they can be traded/sold.. So you could have a group of people sharing them.
No actually. Once it is used, it cannot be used for another 96 hours.. so no way trade to one person and he/she uses, then trade to another.. so it is not something usable for all in same time..
Message Edited by tuls on 10-16-2004 11:42 PM
Blamj
Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:22 pm
#43
Its actually impossible to fix..
Because the information from your computer must travel to the server and to another client. Its like pressing 1 and 3 on the numpad. Sure you may be spinning fast but to others.. your just changing direction very second or so and not "spinning"
Because the information from your computer must travel to the server and to another client. Its like pressing 1 and 3 on the numpad. Sure you may be spinning fast but to others.. your just changing direction very second or so and not "spinning"
Esharra
Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:57 pm
#44
A brief synopsis of how it has been explained to me is as follows. There are a few contributing factors, most notable is the game's attempts to sync client/server information of player position in the game world. Hence why /dance looks fine but lyrical doesn't; /dance is an emote and uninterruptible, lyrical is an interruptible animation. The server updates avatar position for uninterruptible movements such as emotes at the time the emote is called but not during the animation of the emote (thusly, you could stop your bike, /cough then dismount and have no bike warp). For interruptible animations like the base dances, the server attempts to sync every few seconds, therefore we look like tards.
Latency between server and client contributes secondarily. A friend who lives very close to the servers sees less distortion than I do watching my avatar from my second computer.
A few months back they said they had fixed the bike warp problem. While I've seen a couple of instances of slight warp since then, it has been tremendously improved. I suspect the warping I still see is due to latency. If there aren't other factors that I'm unaware of, it is fixable but will require a re-work of our base code. I'm not holding my breath but it could happen.
On a (almost) happier note, I watched a friend do the new dance tonight. She lives in Europe and I'm in Texas. While the base dance didn't resemble dancing in any shape or form that I'm familiar with, it was less "spasmodic" than the bases of lyrical & formal. When she strung the flos to minimize the base, the little bit of base that creeped in..well..at least it didn't look like she was having a seizure.
Message Edited by Esharra on 10-18-2004 01:01 AM
Panthu
Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:45 am
#45
Eshie's got it. I didn't really understand until Tiaga pointed out the /dance emote vs. Formal part.
I think the solution will eventually be that Base Dances will become a true replacement anim for Walking. It will be like the run/walk toggle, but only available to Entertainers and each one only available if you have that base dance. If you look, some emote anims allow you to continue to walk while your upper body performs the emote anim (this cracks me up with /cheer, heh). That would be awesome for us because then we could emote while dancing and actually perform the anim.
Other good things about this change: we could finally have control over movement while still dancing without having to resort to drift correction type methods.
Things that are going to make the devs freak out: people will be able to do everything while dancing that they can while walking: ie. shoot stuff. It could be that some will try to use this to "exploit" in a fight. I personally think that this could just be considered an advantage or a "perk", but we'll see. *shrug*
tuls
Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:55 am
#46
Dancing is an art, fighting is an art, so why not to combine them and name it "artistic fight" or people to say "wow, look, she fights like dancing" 
Seriously base dances need to be changed. If this is very difficult work for server-client, I'd just suggest to make base dances step in same point like many others (exotics, populars etc.)
Esharra
Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:02 am
#47
Yup..Tiaga gets total credit for the info.
Panthu wrote:
I didn't really understand until Tiaga pointed out the /dance emote vs. Formal part.
ArgentWulf
Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:13 am
#49
/bigWookieHug Panthu
What the heck are you devs doing???? Do you want us to all quit? I simply can't believe it has come to this. You have one ticked off customer here. I am simply livid at this.
Shaizann
Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:02 am
#50
I am very sorry they felt the need to silence you, Panthu. That is quite bogus. If it is broken then why do they not say so. Also, both the harrasment threads and mind buff crystal threads should not have been done away with. These are also legitimate gripes as well. Harrasement is wrong in any form and the buff crystal directly hurts us worse than a buffbot.In my mind it rips at the heart of the idea of an interdependent system of play, and should not be allowed.
That said I don't think that the Developers are being jerks by muzzling you for the sake of being jerks. They have some reasoning and it is probably coming from an outside source within SOE. For example the folks in PR and/or Marketing trying to get us silenced prior to the JTL release such that we don't make a large stink about it. Even though a large stink is merited, particularly in the case of harrasement by the buffbots.
Sadly, since it seems the base dance is broken due to Server v. Client player position prediction coding then it will indeed be a tough nut to crack. I know that Planetside suffers from the same issue and the devs there have been actively trying to fix it for over a year now. They finally had to resort ot a work-a-round to get the issue addressed. A work-a-round that was not the best, but it was the only solution they could put together. At least they are trying.
We really need to find an alternate means of venting our concerns to the team such that they understand where we are coming from. Panthu has done her level best I am sure, but she is limited by the chains that bind her to the Correspondant position. I think I should write another snail-mail to SOE. I could address this one to John Smedley. 
DarkY0da
Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:05 am
#51
Panthu wrote:
Groovymarlin wrote:
Panthu/NewJedi/Tiaga, any insight...
I was told not to "create" a PR incident. All of my posts on the quest and our Dance reward have to be approved before I post them publicly. I was told this weeks ago. My own threads on the subject were locked or deleted both in here and in the Corr forum on this and two other issues: harassment and the Mind Buff Crystal given in the FS Village quests.
I have chosen to be quiet out here and let you guys handle this however you are going to with out a corr rather than have my own opinions doctored in an effort to make you more ok with this. *shrug*
I can't say anything more than that, or I'll most likely lose my position. Then I won't be much help to anyone.You can probably guess how I feel about this, but I can only advise that you all continue to make your concerns known in an orderly fashion. Use the other channels available to you. I'm sorry that I can't be more help, but this seems to be one of the weak spots in having a player representative that is company controlled and monitored. Usually I think the corr program is helpful, but this has just been a very frustrating case where it wasn't allowed to be.
bump because I think all dancers need to be sure they have seen this.
Ingrata
Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:25 am
#52
Just read this whole thing today, and wow. All entertainers should see this!!
I will be writing letters to whomever will listen. I will be posting online game reviews. I will recommend that my friends avoid JTL and SWG like the plague.
The Devs have yet to see a PR nightmare...