Dancer Archive

Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky

Baciacca
Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:49 pm
#443




DanceRulez wrote:




Baciacca wrote:

Running a buff-bot is a right to use ingame mechanics that everybody equally posesses.


Buff-bots are convenient and dependable when the ATK entertainers are not. Buff-bots can function during the off-peak hours when there are not a lot of ATK buffers online.


The underlying game features that allow buff-bots to function are utilized by every profession in some form. Getting rid of those features is not an option.





Uhhh, I don't know if you noticed, but getting rid of those features, i.e. recursive macros, is not only an option, but something that they have already stated they're going to do. Not only that, but the Combat Upgrade thingie is liable to change the nature of combat play and HAM as it has been known, so who's to say what you will or won't need once that has all been implemented. Things are going to change. You might want to get ready for it. Oh, and about your pro-buffbot propaganda? Been there, argued that. I would direct you to many of the fine arguments posted previously in this thread by others and myself to see the flaws in your arguments. However doing so would require both effort and patience on your part, and by your post, I'm guessing you have neither.




Assumptions like that is exactly why all of the entertainers like yourself are in the position that you are now. You've gotten destroyed in the market for the service you provide.


Things aren't going to change. Do you see a time-frame for when it is going to change? Did you not see the huge public outcry against the change? Also, what do I have to get ready for? I am the bot, I myself will always have buffs for my toons and my guildmates. I don't lose, and I can't lose. That is another attitude and assumption that needs to change amongst the majority of the entertainer community. Stop thinking that we're going to get what is coming to us. I won't suffer one bit if I can no longer run a recursive macro to offer my service to players 24/7.






G u a a r r
Jedi Guardian
(ggggggggggg9WXnnln[[[[nnnn}}}}nlnnWX9ggggggggggg)
..Forever Guiding and Last Correspondent of the Jedi Profession ..


DanceRulez
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:23 am
#444

Baciacca wrote:
Running a buff-bot is a right to use ingame mechanics that everybody equally posesses.
Buff-bots are convenient and dependable when the ATK entertainers are not. Buff-bots can function during the off-peak hours when there are not a lot of ATK buffers online.
The underlying game features that allow buff-bots to function are utilized by every profession in some form. Getting rid of those features is not an option.



Uhhh, I don't know if you noticed, but getting rid of those features, i.e. recursive macros, is not only an option, but something that they have already stated they're going to do. Not only that, but the Combat Upgrade thingie is liable to change the nature of combat play and HAM as it has been known, so who's to say what you will or won't need once that has all been implemented. Things are going to change. You might want to get ready for it. Oh, and about your pro-buffbot propaganda? Been there, argued that. I would direct you to many of the fine arguments posted previously in this thread by others and myself to see the flaws in your arguments. However doing so would require both effort and patience on your part, and by your post, I'm guessing you have neither.



Shi'ann Dinova
Hot Pink Twi'lek of Mystery

Dreamland
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:07 pm
#445





Baciacca wrote:



Assumptions like that is exactly why all of the entertainers like yourself are in the position that you are now. You've gotten destroyed in the market for the service you provide.


Things aren't going to change. Do you see a time-frame for when it is going to change? Did you not see the huge public outcry against the change? Also, what do I have to get ready for? I am the bot, I myself will always have buffs for my toons and my guildmates. I don't lose, and I can't lose. That is another attitude and assumption that needs to change amongst the majority of the entertainer community. Stop thinking that we're going to get what is coming to us. I won't suffer one bit if I can no longer run a recursive macro to offer my service to players 24/7.






Hate to say i told you so... but you may want to read the recent dev comments by Gordon Walton in the thread below...


I would wager to say that most of us do not see it as you getting what's coming to you, but rather the game getting whats coming to it, for the benefit of us all.



Message Edited by Dreamland on 11-05-2004 01:09 PM

Isleh
Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:24 pm
#446



Baciacca wrote:
Running a buff-bot is a right to use ingame mechanics that everybody equally posesses.


Buff-bots are convenient and dependable when the ATK entertainers are not. Buff-bots can function during the off-peak hours when there are not a lot of ATK buffers online.


The underlying game features that allow buff-bots to function are utilized by every profession in some form. Getting rid of those features is not an option.




If that's what you want, sign up for the test center where the frogs can dispense buffs with a mouse click.


I am not unsympathetic to you dilemma Baciacca, but you've probably used the chat channels to find a solo group and the search feature to find training, why not us it to find a dancer buffing. What do you do when you can't find a doctor to buff?


The entire point of BF was to bring the players together in the cantinas. Entertainers were suppose to be the catalyst. But now, Player Cities disperse the player population to much and buffbots and spam destroy the social atmosphere.


You say off hours there are not enough entertainers but that's not true because I've had the wonderful oppunitity to chat with people around the globe. What do you think ATK entertainers do when you can't move while skill animating and in a group of 20 people? Unfortunatly, most of those conversations had to be done in group chat or tells and you never got a chance to chime in with "Hey! I love that song too!" because of:


"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
Isleh-lin Mott greets you
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"Hi Baciacca" Isleh-lin Mott says warmly
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"So, looks like you had a rough day Baciacca" Isleh-lin Mott says with concern
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Isleh-lin Mott wishes Baciacca well and hopes to see him soon.
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
Isleh-lin Mott Sighs
Isleh
Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:14 pm
#447




Baciacca wrote:




DanceRulez wrote:




Baciacca wrote:

Running a buff-bot is a right to use ingame mechanics that everybody equally posesses.


Buff-bots are convenient and dependable when the ATK entertainers are not. Buff-bots can function during the off-peak hours when there are not a lot of ATK buffers online.


The underlying game features that allow buff-bots to function are utilized by every profession in some form. Getting rid of those features is not an option.





Uhhh, I don't know if you noticed, but getting rid of those features, i.e. recursive macros, is not only an option, but something that they have already stated they're going to do. Not only that, but the Combat Upgrade thingie is liable to change the nature of combat play and HAM as it has been known, so who's to say what you will or won't need once that has all been implemented. Things are going to change. You might want to get ready for it. Oh, and about your pro-buffbot propaganda? Been there, argued that. I would direct you to many of the fine arguments posted previously in this thread by others and myself to see the flaws in your arguments. However doing so would require both effort and patience on your part, and by your post, I'm guessing you have neither.




Assumptions like that is exactly why all of the entertainers like yourself are in the position that you are now. You've gotten destroyed in the market for the service you provide.


Things aren't going to change. Do you see a time-frame for when it is going to change? Did you not see the huge public outcry against the change? Also, what do I have to get ready for? I am the bot, I myself will always have buffs for my toons and my guildmates. I don't lose, and I can't lose. That is another attitude and assumption that needs to change amongst the majority of the entertainer community. Stop thinking that we're going to get what is coming to us. I won't suffer one bit if I can no longer run a recursive macro to offer my service to players 24/7.






/mock gU r So Kewl. U r so l337. u pwn3d Dance


We got destroyed in the market just like any other professionwould beif it could be set up to run 24/7 by a computer and offered services for free. Don't pat yourself on the back because what you do takes no effort at all and is mindless.


The system is backwards. The least amout of effort on the part of the player gets the best results. Eveyone see this, especially the people who run buffbots.

WokkieDancer
Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:25 am
#448
well I hope dancers don't start denying before they heal BF and say you gotta pay me 15k to have your BF healed...... when/if looping macros go.. its hard finding a danver/music person who will buff at the moment on some servers...

Oh ps I do tip for my BF heals I don't often use AFK people. havn't used looping macro's. But if you lose the serveces for all the people I won't be surprised that alot will drop this game. It isn't the best out there and everyday the lack of bug fixing shows.... for over a year they have used the Star Wars name to keep this game in a poor state cuz you know its Star wars they will take the crap to play in this world!

Laters
rayill
Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:03 am
#449




WokkieDancer wrote:
well I hope dancers don't start denying before they heal BF and say you gotta pay me 15k to have your BF healed...... when/if looping macros go.. its hard finding a danver/music person who will buff at the moment on some servers...

Oh ps I do tip for my BF heals I don't often use AFK people. havn't used looping macro's. But if you lose the serveces for all the people I won't be surprised that alot will drop this game. It isn't the best out there and everyday the lack of bug fixing shows.... for over a year they have used the Star Wars name to keep this game in a poor state cuz you know its Star wars they will take the crap to play in this world!

Laters



I only post this to perhaps give you a bit of hope for the post-AFK world. Yesterday I was running about to known locations of ATK performers to give away my alt's clothes and skill attachements since I am giving up my pure Entertainer alt due to the current events. When I checked Moenia, no one was there except one lone Wookie, who had racked up quite a bit of wounds and battle fatigue in space. Although I was giving up my character, I stopped and played for five minutes to help out this wookie. Why? Not because I was looking to make case, but because here was a person that actually needed me. I didn't care that the conversation wasn't fantastic, or that the wookie player wasn't trying to roleplay with me. I was just happy to be able to help one person. It was one of the very few and rare moments that entertainers look for these days. Just a chance to help people.


So, when the AFK is over, and maybe even before then, you would be surprised how many entertainers are willing to help. I didn't know that this person would be in the cantina when I showed up, but I was able to get them back on towards the end goal quicker. This was pure luck, but I can't be the only person who is looking for this kind of reward. So, maybe if you look for those rare live ATK on your server, you won't have to worry about the possibility of spending 15K for BF healing.





Rayill Yi'tun
Master Dancer
- I support ATK people and playstyles
Isleh
Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:10 am
#450



WokkieDancer wrote: well I hope dancers don't start denying before they heal BF and say you gotta pay me 15k to have your BF healed...... when/if looping macros go.. its hard finding a danver/music person who will buff at the moment on some servers... Oh ps I do tip for my BF heals I don't often use AFK people. havn't used looping macro's. But if you lose the serveces for all the people I won't be surprised that alot will drop this game. It isn't the best out there and everyday the lack of bug fixing shows.... for over a year they have used the Star Wars name to keep this game in a poor state cuz you know its Star wars they will take the crap to play in this world! Laters


I only denied service a few times. Most of them were in a base when I was dancing covert to counteract the rampant mind disease and when imperials had entered it to prevent me from healing them.


I've never demanded payment.

psycocat
Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:18 pm
#451

After reading a few of the posts I have this to say about AFK.


I've gone AFK only a few times. Those rare moments were when I was helping another dancer get xp, and usually in a vacant cantina. I've done it to gain dance (not healing) xp, although sometimes I have gotten healing from it. There is a fine line to be had from AFK.


That line gets crossed with spamming and buffbots.


They got rid of spamming from AFK thanks goodness. Because truly I don't care if a player wants to waste 15 dollars a month on a game they don't play.


But buffbots steal game excitement and fun from many entertainers.


I'm not a master dancer, but I put on a good show. I set my pets in wedge formation and they dance with me. I just got an ent droid to do the same. I dance poplock with a vibroblade or use another sword for the other dances, as I have from the day I started.


Yet when I take up dancer again to do the ent quest, and because as a fencer/CH I don't really need medic in most cases, I find people passing me up to go watch a stupid bot!


I hated dancing in a cantina full of AFK, spamming, jedi lusting grinders. Now business is stolenby one lone Buffbot.


You want to waste $15 a month, go ahead. But don't step on my fun factor.


oh and for the combat professions: If you can't figure out how to play the game without buffs don't play. I ground through most of fencer and creature handler without buffs. It took me four months but I did it and had a blast doing it. If you can't figure out how to do that then go get a single player game and play alone.


Please forgive me if I insulted anyone in this post: the truth hurts.

Message Edited by psycocat on 11-08-2004 03:20 PM



Shala-renn Xibotepotl. MCH/MFencer/Dancer. Bria.
Zigie. Musician. Ahazi.
Yhissh. (Slave Trader) Businessman/BH/Rifle. Bria. [Alt]

"Time for our own benchmark. The entertainment we offer."
-Rabenschwinge
Baciacca
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:28 am
#452




Isleh wrote:




Baciacca wrote:
Running a buff-bot is a right to use ingame mechanics that everybody equally posesses.


Buff-bots are convenient and dependable when the ATK entertainers are not. Buff-bots can function during the off-peak hours when there are not a lot of ATK buffers online.


The underlying game features that allow buff-bots to function are utilized by every profession in some form. Getting rid of those features is not an option.




If that's what you want, sign up for the test center where the frogs can dispense buffs with a mouse click.


I am not unsympathetic to you dilemma Baciacca, but you've probably used the chat channels to find a solo group and the search feature to find training, why not us it to find a dancer buffing. What do you do when you can't find a doctor to buff?


No, I've never used the chat channels to find a solo group. We have an AT-ST group that runs 24/7 out of a house with a toon that runs a /invite macro as leader of the group. This will be destroyed with the end of recursive macros. I don't use the search feature to find training. I use the trainers. There is never a time when I can't find a doctor to buff because there are 2 different friend's accounts that I can log on who are master doctors.


The entire point of BF was to bring the players together in the cantinas. Entertainers were suppose to be the catalyst. But now, Player Cities disperse the player population to much and buffbots and spam destroy the social atmosphere.


I would argue that whining entertainers ruin the atmosphere. I'd rather see a bot's spam than an entertainer whining about not getting tips.


You say off hours there are not enough entertainers but that's not true because I've had the wonderful oppunitity to chat with people around the globe. What do you think ATK entertainers do when you can't move while skill animating and in a group of 20 people? Unfortunatly, most of those conversations had to be done in group chat or tells and you never got a chance to chime in with "Hey! I love that song too!" because of:


Yes, it is true. You may play on a larger server where there are always entertainers around in every city, but on my server there are rarely ever entertainers buffing in coronet during the prime hours, let alone the off-peak hours.


"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
Isleh-lin Mott greets you
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"Hi Baciacca" Isleh-lin Mott says warmly
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"So, looks like you had a rough day Baciacca" Isleh-lin Mott says with concern
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Isleh-lin Mott wishes Baciacca well and hopes to see him soon.
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
"If I'm not in a group, please invite me" yells AFKerOne
"If I'm low on action" says AFKerTwo "Please heal me!"
AFKerThree Shouts "Please tip me. I'm poor"
Buffbot says "After the Buff, please disband. If you are group leader, please invite others."
Isleh-lin Mott Sighs


Hmmm, and you think that these people wouldn't run the same recursive macro if they were actually at their keyboard? Being AFK has nothing to do with it at all, it's all about the macros that these people have chosen to use. That's what the /addignore feature is for, or better yet, the ignore all AFK players feature is for. You can't complain about hearing spammers because you have the option to not listen to them. It's no one's fault but your own if they are annoying you.










G u a a r r
Jedi Guardian
(ggggggggggg9WXnnln[[[[nnnn}}}}nlnnWX9ggggggggggg)
..Forever Guiding and Last Correspondent of the Jedi Profession ..


Baciacca
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:32 am
#453




Dreamland wrote:






Baciacca wrote:



Assumptions like that is exactly why all of the entertainers like yourself are in the position that you are now. You've gotten destroyed in the market for the service you provide.


Things aren't going to change. Do you see a time-frame for when it is going to change? Did you not see the huge public outcry against the change? Also, what do I have to get ready for? I am the bot, I myself will always have buffs for my toons and my guildmates. I don't lose, and I can't lose. That is another attitude and assumption that needs to change amongst the majority of the entertainer community. Stop thinking that we're going to get what is coming to us. I won't suffer one bit if I can no longer run a recursive macro to offer my service to players 24/7.






Hate to say i told you so... but you may want to read the recent dev comments by Gordon Walton in the thread below...


I would wager to say that most of us do not see it as you getting what's coming to you, but rather the game getting whats coming to it, for the benefit of us all.




Message Edited by Dreamland on 11-05-2004 01:09 PM


But have they done it yet? Don't make me list out everything that the devs have promised but have yet to deliver on.





G u a a r r
Jedi Guardian
(ggggggggggg9WXnnln[[[[nnnn}}}}nlnnWX9ggggggggggg)
..Forever Guiding and Last Correspondent of the Jedi Profession ..


Baciacca
Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:34 am
#454




IdiAmin wrote:




Oqua wrote:




IdiAmin wrote:




So I interact with a buffbot using in game macros. Plus I post on an alt -- clearly very questionable. And asking about ethics regarding posting...um, perhaps you should really think about this in a big picture sense. It's a game kids, nothing more, nothing less.




If this is the case, and its "just a game kid" for you, then quit coming and trying to debate every little point that has been talked to death ad nauseum.


Have something new to say...then by all means please share, but otherwise you do look like someone trying to "hide" from the initial reaction your one starred posts using your main already got you (more then not because of a belligerant attitude); likesomeone who is just trying to rehash things that have already been discussed so you can "win" a debate/argument started by you on another thread.


Most here have jedi, and various combat experience...so we do know all sides to it.


We just would like someone to see it from our side as well, not just "you have to step up to the plate and stop expecting people to cater to you primadonnas" "everyone has something they gripe about with their profession" etc, etc.


Thats all..plain and simple.






I like to debate and am sick of hearing things like "let's set up a combat macro and steal all the good spawns." No way any combat person would ever say that because they know it's completely ridiculous. I'm just sick of reading some of this stuff and though I'd respond.


Perhaps you didn't see my other post (I know there are a lot and it's getting hard to keep up -- not sarcasm) I agree with some of the things you are saying. I agree that ATK should get an adavantage. I agree that buffbots should be relegated to a house and out of the cantina. I agree that eveyone including entertainers needs more content.


What I don't agree with is outright disallowing buffbots. I also don't agree with the general air I've picked up here that entertainers are owed attention by the community. That is my opinion of the situation, I do not ask for anyone to agree with it; it is just what I have picked up from reading posts in here for a few months now.


And don't give me false quotes. And if you don't want to debate me then don't do it. I simply added my 2 cents in this post (which was made for it) -- if you don't want to participate then no one is forcing you.





can we be friends?





G u a a r r
Jedi Guardian
(ggggggggggg9WXnnln[[[[nnnn}}}}nlnnWX9ggggggggggg)
..Forever Guiding and Last Correspondent of the Jedi Profession ..


Padtai
Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:17 am
#455

I keep trying to move the discussion forward but it spins backwards because I think some people just don't get it.I think they enjoy this as some alternative type of PVP or something, but I wish they would realize this isn't the place for that. Baicca, I think you're one of those people. If you aren't, then really, answer my questions.

1) Just how available should bonuses like buffs and skills like healing be?


The developers must have had some idea about how much downtime and how valuable they wanted the skills of entertainers (and doctors) to be. There's a reason they didn't put up npc's to heal or heck, put in wounds at all. That reason, my guess, is to give value to the skills while creating challenges for the combat players to overcome. Now maybe the developers underestimated how many people would play each role, and how hard the challenge would be. If that is true, then perhaps they need to evaluate whetherthey remove wounds/fatigue, and add blue frogs or npcs to provide some alternative healing, or let players have mechanics to provide some off-line healing that results from online play (the way crafted goods work). What they decide to do doesn't matter that much, but ultimately, we all need to acknowledge the concept that games need balances to them. I know the developers did not expect the amount of AFK that we currently have in the game. I know they don't "like " it, and I know that part of that must be because we are pushing the limits of the balance they designed into the game. The same way we all had fun fixing disabled bikes with a shuttle hop. Doesn't make sense to disable the darn thing if you pay nothing to get it fixed, does it? Doesn't give value to artisan skills to make new ones, if no one really needs new bikes? Sure its less convenient to have to buy new ones, but convenience for the combat player is not the only goal of the game. So the question of just how available buffs and healing has to be answered carefully. The more available you make them, the less they operate as strategy pre and post battle, and more just as affecting it during battle. That's not necessarily bad, but it does make the game a lot less complex.


That leads to my next question:

2) Do you feel it is necessary to get value out of an unattened character? Do you feel it is necessary for that character to be *online* while you get the benefits from it? Could you be satisifed with something like merchant if it were part of the balance of the supply or buffs/heals and gaining expeirence? Or is most of the appeal of owning a bot ( or using or playing AFK ) tied up in the fact that its like fixing a disabled bike, that you know it is a way to get around the limits of the game?


This is not about how available we want buffs to be, but about why you have an alt in the first place. This question is also not about the role of entertainers, which I will ask in the third set. Let's imagine we turned every ticket collector into a buffer that could heal and buff 200% of your mind and body for 3 hours. You would no longer need your bot, would you? Would you threaten SOE not to make this change because you would cancel your account? Or would you just cheer the change and cancel? Does anyone out there really bot because they enjoy it, and if so, are there so many of those players that SOE needs to be careful in addressing the "shortage" solutions that they preserve a role for the "bot owners"? Or can we say these people are just cheaters who shouldn't be accomodated in a working game? How valuable is the need to AFK one's way to getting experience and rewards, compared to some solution built around offline play (such as holo vids recorded by live players, displayed through terminals or merchant vendors...lots of ideas, that's just a general sketch)?


That leads to my final questions:


3) The devleopers wanted to have a social game included in the package of SWG. How can we fix thse two classes to be fun to play, without creating shortages or inconveniences for other classes, to encourage the active player who wants to be social? What elements of this class appeal to those who play it?


As an entertainer, do you want to be useful to combat, or do you not care as long as you have something to make money from the system? Do you like being a healer? Do you want some more "active" quest type activities like the theater quests as a way to get experience (instead of just costing it)? Do you worry about retaining the freedom to dance/play music how you want rather than how the system wants? Do you not care about the dance/music, so long as you can chat?


Now notice, none of these questions relate to the idea of preserving the value for the unattened alt. I think if unattened alts must have value, then a social gamer's class is the *worst* possible choice. As people have noted,playing a role that a zombie can play pretty much ruins the social interaction part of the game. We can't have entertainer be *automated*, but we can find other ways to make buffs/heal available and ways (if we must) to give value to unattened alts, though I strongly would prefer minimal online time roles like merchant to get people to log off and free the servers up. We've been going around in circles because the current game puts all three questions inside the same class and obviously, what serves the needs of one set of players comes at the expense of another set.


Now some of you out there will read my questions and say why? Things work great now, but that's the point, they only work for you. Or say, why, if we could just get rid of the bots, things would work great for you. Again, only for you, someone else's game might become (in their minds) "unplayable." Well when that happens, we all lose, even if we think we win. We lose a game that has broader appeal than to just those who like to play the way we do. SOE actually did want dancers/musicians in the game as they spent money to motion capture moves, compose songs and they didn't have to do that if all they wanted was a bunch of afk bots. They also didn't want tons of down time either, because why have weapons if you are always sitting down healing?Face it: We loseWhen other people are having fun around you, that catches on. If everyone walks around complaining, that catches on too. Seriously, are you happy walking into a cantina to use a robot to buff you, or would you rather just be pre-buffed and skip the bot? I mean, that is an option you know if the dev's give it to us. Or are you happy buffing someone who's gone AFK the moment they stepped inside the cantina because they dont' want to talk to you, who grumbles about it and resents it? I'm not sure what a better option there is, but let's think of something. What we have now doesn't work and wouldn't work even if the other side just "gave up." When we look at bots/afk, we are looking at the *wrong* set of problems. We should instead be looking at the downtime balance for combat for buffs and heals, the usefulness and gameplay for entertainers, and whether or notwe need more "minimal online playtime" roles like merchant or need to improve those roles in some way. To continue to run around in circles on AFK is counterproductive.

Message Edited by Padtai on 11-09-2004 10:20 AM

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