Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Reachwind wrote:
IdiAmin wrote:
Posting as requested:
The Entertainer community believes that they are owed time and interaction from the combantants.
Sorry, but this is what YOU people think not what we think.
We want a playable game and an important part in the game economy. No more, no less. Every single profession and play style in the game wants the same thing for it's entertainment dollar.
Wrong again. You may have missed it but there was a thread Sunday night about the buffbot on Bria. I engaged some people in discussion and they said they were entitled to certain things in the game...I believe it was Dreamland that said this.
You already do have a "playable game" but you are not entitled to be an important part of the economy. Are SL's and CH's an important part? The answer of course is no, they are not.
You have also hit on the main point that I was getting at. If every profession wants the same thing then why are there obvious differences in each? It is clear that not every profession is entitled to whatever they want. Using SL again, what if I wanted to be a full on SL and nothing else, yet also wanted to make an income? I would not have much of a chance to make anything as a SL. In fact, SL can also be done fully AFK although it cannot adapt with the group (hmmm, much like buffbots).
Long story short, as I've said, you are not entittled to anything. Professions are not equal. Buffbots are here to stay with recursive macros or not. How you deal with it is up to you, but how you've dealt with it so far could be far far better.
IdiAmin wrote:
Wrong again. You may have missed it but there was a thread Sunday night about the buffbot on Bria. I engaged some people in discussion and they said they were entitled to certain things in the game...I believe it was Dreamland that said this.
You already do have a "playable game" but you are not entitled to be an important part of the economy. Are SL's and CH's an important part? The answer of course is no, they are not.
You have also hit on the main point that I was getting at. If every profession wants the same thing then why are there obvious differences in each? It is clear that not every profession is entitled to whatever they want. Using SL again, what if I wanted to be a full on SL and nothing else, yet also wanted to make an income? I would not have much of a chance to make anything as a SL. In fact, SL can also be done fully AFK although it cannot adapt with the group (hmmm, much like buffbots).
Long story short, as I've said, you are not entittled to anything. Professions are not equal. Buffbots are here to stay with recursive macros or not. How you deal with it is up to you, but how you've dealt with it so far could be far far better.
Every profession IS entitled to an importantplace in the game economy and every single player IS entitled to value for their game dollar.
Professions not being equal is the issue and it is a coding issue. If one profession is not balanced (equal)with the others in a MMORPG it has no place. If entertainer has no place than they can wave good bye to these entertainer player's money.
Oh and get out from behind your alt and post with your real account.... Assuming it isn't banned.
IdiAmin wrote:
Wrong again. You may have missed it but there was a thread Sunday night about the buffbot on Bria. I engaged some people in discussion and they said they were entitled to certain things in the game...I believe it was Dreamland that said this.
You already do have a "playable game" but you are not entitled to be an important part of the economy. Are SL's and CH's an important part? The answer of course is no, they are not.
You have also hit on the main point that I was getting at. If every profession wants the same thing then why are there obvious differences in each? It is clear that not every profession is entitled to whatever they want. Using SL again, what if I wanted to be a full on SL and nothing else, yet also wanted to make an income? I would not have much of a chance to make anything as a SL. In fact, SL can also be done fully AFK although it cannot adapt with the group (hmmm, much like buffbots).
Long story short, as I've said, you are not entittled to anything. Professions are not equal. Buffbots are here to stay with recursive macros or not. How you deal with it is up to you, but how you've dealt with it so far could be far far better.
I did not say that. that is not a quote from any post i made.
I said basicaly the exact same thing reachwind just said we are entitled to have our class function properly just like everyone else is. It is broken right now and it needs to be fixed, much in the way smuggler is broken and needs to be fixed.
You are someone that buries their head in the sand and ignores problems, other people try to make themselves heard and get their problems adressed. That is what the entire point of the forums are. They are not designed to be an outlet for you to call people whiny babies because they try to affect positive change in their gameplay.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 11-03-2004 12:23 PM
rayill wrote:
I believe that SL actually can make money on their own. In order to be a SL, they have to train in both Marksman and Scout. Both these novice professions allow for them to take part in the economy. Even if they were "pure" SL, they would still have to have Ranged Support 1-4, Survival 1-4, and I believe Exploration 1-4. Guess what? That makes them able to gather organics from things that a group they are in have killed. They also get the bonus of leading actual groups that aren't solo and getting a share of the loot. So, even in your scenario, SL are still a viable part of the economy. Taking a SL along on a Krayt or NS hunt would actually be beneficial since their skills add to everyone, even if they need to be revamped.
In addition, Creature Handlers still are able to make money. They can easily group up their pets and take combat missions to either get more pets (for selling) or to just get credits in game. Having two grauls out and grouped will get you a hefty size mission payout that you don't have to share with your pets. Sure, you might need to have some combat support for them, but even if you are pure CH, you can scale the missions back and take on things you know that your pets can take. Also, you can have the pets ready to go to take over for one if one gets incapped. That makes them still viable in the economy, and in a way that is more viable than the Entertainers.
So, why don't you tell me about a profession that is as bad as the entertainer professions when it comes to economics? I'd wager that I know more about each profession than you do. Why is that? Well, it's not because I grinded Jedi. See, when I was dancing when I first started, I'd see the titles people would walk into the cantina wearing and see what profession that was. I was genuinely curious. By doing so, I started learning about the other professions. Then, my rl boyfriend started working towards a Jedi, and I went out of my way to learn about each profession so I could better coach him through each one. I've seen how each profession works and how each one can benefit from their perks in the player economies. Believe me when I say that Entertainers are at the bottom of this economy.
Fair enough, I was getting at the fact that a master level profession is void of money making within itself.
Entertainers have ID which requires a live person and often nets a fee. Same kind of thing. You're not going to get rich doing marksman missions or novice ID customization.
And yes, CH can be made to make money. I must have spaced there for a minute. I was concentrating on how they used to be able to train mounts and sell pets. So scratch that, good point.
And please, challenging me to knowledge of professions is quite ludicrous. I have done most of them and know enough about the majority. I'll admit I've never done Droid engineer and therefore may be at a loss there. My RL roomate though ground every profession and told me about them so I guess I'm as much of an expert as you are.
Dreamland wrote:
IdiAmin wrote:
Wrong again. You may have missed it but there was a thread Sunday night about the buffbot on Bria. I engaged some people in discussion and they said they were entitled to certain things in the game...I believe it was Dreamland that said this.
You already do have a "playable game" but you are not entitled to be an important part of the economy. Are SL's and CH's an important part? The answer of course is no, they are not.
You have also hit on the main point that I was getting at. If every profession wants the same thing then why are there obvious differences in each? It is clear that not every profession is entitled to whatever they want. Using SL again, what if I wanted to be a full on SL and nothing else, yet also wanted to make an income? I would not have much of a chance to make anything as a SL. In fact, SL can also be done fully AFK although it cannot adapt with the group (hmmm, much like buffbots).
Long story short, as I've said, you are not entittled to anything. Professions are not equal. Buffbots are here to stay with recursive macros or not. How you deal with it is up to you, but how you've dealt with it so far could be far far better.
I did not say that. that is not a quote from any post i made.
I said basicaly the exact same thing reachwind just said we are entitled to have our class function properly just like everyone else is. It is broken right now and it needs to be fixed, much in the way smuggler is broken and needs to be fixed.
You are someone that buries their head in the sand and ignores problems, other people try to make themselves heard and get their problems adressed. That is what the entire point of the forums are. They are not designed to be an outlet for you to call people whiny babies because they try to affect positive change in their gameplay.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 11-03-2004 12:23 PM
I know it's not a quote. It was like 4am and now deleted so it gets a little fuzzy.
What I'm saying is you are not entitled to anything and your class if indeed functioning as it was coded. Don't mistake lack of content for not functioning as intended. You can heal and buff just like you are programmed to do. Fencer scatter hit bypassing armor was not working as intended, entertainers feeling they need more content is not the same.
I do not ignore your problems. I am here having a discussion aren't I? If I called someone a whiney baby then I apologize and must have gotten caught up in the moment.
These boards are for the discussion of the entertainer profession. I am offering a different viewpoint (and am encouraged to by this post) and you are getting angry that I have a differing opinion. I am far from sticking my head in the sand; I offer a viewpoint and it is torn down as not accurate despite the fact that many combatants hold the same views.
LyteFoot wrote:
Makes robot alts to make his game easier, hides behind another account to protect his post status, uses friends accounts to boost his primary account post status. In other words more than willing to use any questionable mechanic to benefit himself regardless of ethics.
That all lends to a high creditibility factor.
Pretty much all that needs to be said about this.
IdiAmin wrote:
I know it's not a quote. It was like 4am and now deleted so it gets a little fuzzy.
What I'm saying is you are not entitled to anything and your class if indeed functioning as it was coded. Don't mistake lack of content for not functioning as intended. You can heal and buff just like you are programmed to do. Fencer scatter hit bypassing armor was not working as intended, entertainers feeling they need more content is not the same.
I do not ignore your problems. I am here having a discussion aren't I? If I called someone a whiney baby then I apologize and must have gotten caught up in the moment.
These boards are for the discussion of the entertainer profession. I am offering a different viewpoint (and am encouraged to by this post) and you are getting angry that I have a differing opinion. I am far from sticking my head in the sand; I offer a viewpoint and it is torn down as not accurate despite the fact that many combatants hold the same views.
Smuggler spices are working as they are intended to. All the specials are working as they are intended to. Buying faction points are working as they are intended to. Slicing is working as it is intended to. That does not mean that the smugglers are not entitled to better, there are other influences in the game that invalidate their abilities, and that is a problem.
As a master dancer a buffbot invalidates my abilities. There is no need for a single dancer to ever dance a step on any server as long is there is one buffbot in coronet cantina. That buffbot can handle the buff and healing needs of the entire server. That is not a balanced profession.
Dreamland wrote:
IdiAmin wrote:
I know it's not a quote. It was like 4am and now deleted so it gets a little fuzzy.
What I'm saying is you are not entitled to anything and your class if indeed functioning as it was coded. Don't mistake lack of content for not functioning as intended. You can heal and buff just like you are programmed to do. Fencer scatter hit bypassing armor was not working as intended, entertainers feeling they need more content is not the same.
I do not ignore your problems. I am here having a discussion aren't I? If I called someone a whiney baby then I apologize and must have gotten caught up in the moment.
These boards are for the discussion of the entertainer profession. I am offering a different viewpoint (and am encouraged to by this post) and you are getting angry that I have a differing opinion. I am far from sticking my head in the sand; I offer a viewpoint and it is torn down as not accurate despite the fact that many combatants hold the same views.
Smuggler spices are working as they are intended to. All the specials are working as they are intended to. Buying faction points are working as they are intended to. Slicing is working as it is intended to. That does not mean that the smugglers are not entitled to better, there are other influences in the game that invalidate their abilities, and that is a problem.
As a master dancer a buffbot invalidates my abilities. There is no need for a single dancer to ever dance a step on any server as long is there is one buffbot in coronet cantina. That buffbot can handle the buff and healing needs of the entire server. That is not a balanced profession.
I do believe that many smugglers actually disliked the idea that Imperial Colonels get a free pass within the Imperial Crackdown because it invalidated their profession. Why? Because suddenly so many people were either using known bugs to get Imperial faction relatively quickly to be immune to something that was intended to bring Smugglers more content. The Developers did not intend for people to abuse the rank system to gain immunity, but that was what resulted. The Smugglers need to be fixed as well, just as Dream pointed out above.
Just because you can accomplish within the current game system does not mean it is healthy for the game environment. That is what we have tried to point out about buffbots. Macros can be useful, but abused as they are within the current environment, they area great detriment. Entertainers are a service profession. If we are all but ignored by those seeking our services as they head to a buffbot, our profession is negated by the buffbots presence. An automated program does not enhance the environment.
Heck, at this point, I'd be happy if the buffbots had monkeys randomly hitting their keyboards to input stuff rather than what we are subjected to. At least then it would have someone at the other side.
rayill wrote:
Dreamland wrote:
IdiAmin wrote:
I know it's not a quote. It was like 4am and now deleted so it gets a little fuzzy.
What I'm saying is you are not entitled to anything and your class if indeed functioning as it was coded. Don't mistake lack of content for not functioning as intended. You can heal and buff just like you are programmed to do. Fencer scatter hit bypassing armor was not working as intended, entertainers feeling they need more content is not the same.
I do not ignore your problems. I am here having a discussion aren't I? If I called someone a whiney baby then I apologize and must have gotten caught up in the moment.
These boards are for the discussion of the entertainer profession. I am offering a different viewpoint (and am encouraged to by this post) and you are getting angry that I have a differing opinion. I am far from sticking my head in the sand; I offer a viewpoint and it is torn down as not accurate despite the fact that many combatants hold the same views.
Smuggler spices are working as they are intended to. All the specials are working as they are intended to. Buying faction points are working as they are intended to. Slicing is working as it is intended to. That does not mean that the smugglers are not entitled to better, there are other influences in the game that invalidate their abilities, and that is a problem.
As a master dancer a buffbot invalidates my abilities. There is no need for a single dancer to ever dance a step on any server as long is there is one buffbot in coronet cantina. That buffbot can handle the buff and healing needs of the entire server. That is not a balanced profession.
I do believe that many smugglers actually disliked the idea that Imperial Colonels get a free pass within the Imperial Crackdown because it invalidated their profession. Why? Because suddenly so many people were either using known bugs to get Imperial faction relatively quickly to be immune to something that was intended to bring Smugglers more content. The Developers did not intend for people to abuse the rank system to gain immunity, but that was what resulted. The Smugglers need to be fixed as well, just as Dream pointed out above.
Just because you can accomplish within the current game system does not mean it is healthy for the game environment. That is what we have tried to point out about buffbots. Macros can be useful, but abused as they are within the current environment, they area great detriment. Entertainers are a service profession. If we are all but ignored by those seeking our services as they head to a buffbot, our profession is negated by the buffbots presence. An automated program does not enhance the environment.
Heck, at this point, I'd be happy if the buffbots had monkeys randomly hitting their keyboards to input stuff rather than what we are subjected to. At least then it would have someone at the other side.
that's fine. You can claim fixes but please don't tell me that it is simply not working.
If you claim it is not healthy for the game environment, then I ask you to to look at the other side. You will need to convince those that now find a willing partner in buffbots; one that will happily give them a buff and not brush them off because they don't /giggle to them (just a gross generalization, not serious -- chill out).
I agree that entertainers are a service profession. They were not providing the services that we were looking for so some of us felt the need to creat our own entertainer. If there would have been enough service in the beginning, then people would not be looking for an outlet (one that costs real money I might add -- kind of shows how much people want buffs).
And of course I agree you are negated by buffbot presences. I, in fact, believe that afk play should not be tolerated inside of the cantina. Despite this, you have to deal with the ways things have worked out. Since entertainers could not provide what combatants wanted they now need to try doubly hard to attract customers. I guarantee that people waiting in line would be happy to get a buff from you if you /tell them that you can get them and there friends. Instead of this I see people purposefully trying to sabotage other's characters (like the SL wound spreading I read about)....that just fuels the fire and the animosity and cheapens any middle ground approach.
Personally if I can find a buffer that is ATK i will use them and tip them well. I have had a few bad experiences and some good ones but that is to be expected. I will not spend time searching or pleading for a buff -- if I have to I will just go to the buffbot. This is particularly true at 2am sometimes when work is over and I know that finding an entertainer at that time will be all but impossible. I know it is not needed, but it makes things much easier (which is what all of us are working for).
IdiAmin wrote:
Posting as requested:
The Entertainer community believes that they are owed time and interaction from the combantants. In fact, many of us would prefer to not interact with you but often times are forced to. A bot is the equivalent of going to Wal-Mart over going to the slower, homely neighborhood mom and pop store. sure you may feel a little bad for them since they were "there first" but over time you realize that round the clock service with a smile is just such a good deal.
This problem never would have occurred had Entertainers made there only real viable product available from the beginning. Everyone had to advertise their wares and make themselves successful to get where they are today....entertainers did not do this. As such combatants were so frustrated they actually spent real life money to get around this road block.
Today entertainers still complain about people "not knowing" about their profession and their availability, yet hardly ever advertise on their galaxy boards or try to educate the general public.
You made your bed, now sleep in it.
I register my location. I greet the customer as they walk in the door with my Master Dancer title up. We did not make this bed. The people who spend money to create a buffbot are just to impatient and/or lazy to find a Entertainer. They saw a hole in the system and used it. You know damn well if someone could automate a Doctor and create Buffbotpeoplewould do it in an instant. The problem of availability does not even come into consideration.
There is also this feeling that you are entitled to something. You are entitled to nothing except the ability to compete. A rifleman- CM may beat me 10 out of 10 times because of our differing templates. I don't complain, but instead I accept it and try to work within my abilities...be it finding different mobs to kill, or working in a group to defeat the Rifleman - CM.
So how would you feel if that Rifleman - CM could beat you 10 out of 10 times and be AFK while doing so?
How do you feel about the combat rebalance? Must seem like a waste of time to you because everyone can become a Rifleman - CM.Joy, we can all be Rifleman - CM clones running around in our suits of composite armor with Entertainer and Doctor buffbots in the med centers and cantinas. What a grand vision.
You have every oppurtunity to build a base with newer players and with old players who don't like buffbots. You have every oppurtunity to make your case in the cantinas and on the server boards yet you do not. You cannot tell me that if you /tell someone waiting in line for a buffbot "hey, i'll buff you right now for 5k, deal?" the majority wouldn't jump on it. This psuedo-elite attitude of degrading yourself by begging for business is laughable. Good luck though, judging from the posts on here you're going to need it.
Who has the attitude? I'm begging for tip and business every time I greet someone coming to the door. I make myself available but I'm not atsomeone's beck-and-call to buff. What you want, judging by your post here, is entertainers that buff and heal and does nothing else. They are not allowed to do a faction theme park, they are not allowed to go on a raid, they are not allowed to become a pilot. They are only there to become master entertainer and dispense buffs. Their participation in other parts of the game is not allowed.