Dancer Archive
Thread: /denyservice
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Warryyr
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:42 am
#27
Any /denyservice you do much be redone the next day - in other words, yes it's a daily thing.
I haven't done a /denyservice in awhile. In general I avoid it, because for some reason once people realize an entertainer is standing up to them, they revert to a childlike state and start name-calling and being irrational in general. This is usually followed by an /addignore on that person, and then all their cronies who wander by or send you a /tell to "put you back in your place."
I guess I'm being a little gloomy with all of this - just making the point that it might be something to not take lightly.
I make a macro with folks who've seriously upset me for one reason or another - consistent non-tippers for buffs (everyone forgets, but not every forgets everytime) and folks who are extremely rude. I don't tolerate people who bark at me things like "Music!!!!" and "Dance!!!!" and "Do it now, Wookie!!!!!! NOW!" "DO IT" "DANCE" "MUSIC" and at that point, they get on /denyservice.
Also, the people who think that sending the same /tell 1,000 times asking "when will I get buffed, are you done yet" gets me to buff the current customer faster somehow, get an /addignore and a subsequent /denyservice.
I don't provide my services to people who have no speck of common courtesy when it comes to social interaction. It's too late for me to teach it to them, and it's best to just let them be rude to themselves or harass someone else.
The macro is usually just a bunch of /denyservice and the name of the person. Before I start any buffing sessions, I run that. The benefit I see is that I get reminded of the names of people who've driven me to do such a thing, and I don't have to deal with them.
ZabrackDimo
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:26 pm
#28
Now here's a question for you entertainer types that are complaining about not getting tips. You apparently are of the impression that people must tipfor watching you...which gets you entertainment healing exp that you need to advance. Wouldn't it seem more appropriate that you pay the people watching you since you need them more than they need you. Yes, I realize that you would like to be compensated for your skill, but then you also selected a skill thatabsolutely needsother people in order to advance. Just be happy they are watching you when you need the exp and when you can buff them, charge for the buffs which you can give out and nobody can get without you letting them. There are so many non-master musicians and dancers that would sell their soul to get people to watch them that nobody MUST watch you if you expect them to pay.
Now before you start with the flaming, I was a master entertainer, master dancer and I cared less if someone didn't pay me since I needed them more than they needed me. Entertain is just like every other profession, until you make master, don't believe that you are an irreplacable commodity. I suspect that when they get around to making entertainer changes (right about the time they kill off the repeating macros) they will consider allowingbf healing in camps which means you'll have a reason to leave the cantina. Perhaps they might do the other ideathat's being tossed about of allowing entertainer types to create holo's of thier performance so people cancarry them around and use them to heal bf in the wilderness. Either way, the master performers are still going to be the only ones making the money. You just need to accept that just like every other skill, nobody needs nor must accept the terms of a non-master characterwhen there are so many masters out there already.
Drygo
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:07 pm
#29
Strangely enough, it never bothered me that I don't get tips. Just with any profession, except combat perhaps and a few others, you don't really make money till you master. I'm fine with that, seriously. I think it's simple consideration to give tips considering how entertainers arguably make the least amount of money of any profession prior to master, but that's neither here nor there. And, as a master, I definitely don't get anything from when people watch me. By that point, a point I've been at for months and months now, I'm clearly the one providing a service. And, as a master, I tend to be watched more than the non-masters because I can heal you fully in less than a minute. Some people tip, some don't, and I'm satisfied with the tips I get.
But, anyway, on to the original topic. Yes, /denyservice has to be done every day. I have only used it once, when someone called me a "**edit**." Of course, people call me a "**edit**" on a weekly basis and it doesn't really bother me. But, I just happened to be annoyed already that night. Generally I don't really care and I never use it. However, I am seriously considering using it towards the people that have treated me like crap over the past few months regarding the buffbot issue when the recursive macro ends. For all of those people who claim they "don't need us" because of the buffbots. Well, perhaps they don't.
And, I will laugh, and laugh...and laugh...
FuschiaD
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:31 pm
#30
I could care less if I don't get tipped for healing someone's mind. What I won't tolerate is someone trying to score a free buff off me. I HATE the developing tendency of entertainer groups to invite any Tom, **edit** and Harry that walks through the door asking for an invite. If I'm part of the entertainer group, someone comes in asking for an invite, and the leader does it without asking what they need, I automatically /denyservice, or just stop flourishing. I'll not have anyone stealing a buff from me. It has since become the policy of the Theed cantina on my server to ask first if the person is an entertainer or in need of a buff. If they need a buff, they probably won't get the invite.We need to start reteachingour clients that you do NOT have to be grouped to buff.
PoetDancer
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:38 pm
#31
ZabrackDimo wrote:
Now here's a question for you entertainer types that are complaining about not getting tips. You apparently are of the impression that people must tipfor watching you...which gets you entertainment healing exp that you need to advance. Wouldn't it seem more appropriate that you pay the people watching you since you need them more than they need you. Yes, I realize that you would like to be compensated for your skill, but then you also selected a skill thatabsolutely needsother people in order to advance. Just be happy they are watching you when you need the exp and when you can buff them, charge for the buffs which you can give out and nobody can get without you letting them. There are so many non-master musicians and dancers that would sell their soul to get people to watch them that nobody MUST watch you if you expect them to pay.
Now before you start with the flaming, I was a master entertainer, master dancer and I cared less if someone didn't pay me since I needed them more than they needed me. Entertain is just like every other profession, until you make master, don't believe that you are an irreplacable commodity. I suspect that when they get around to making entertainer changes (right about the time they kill off the repeating macros) they will consider allowingbf healing in camps which means you'll have a reason to leave the cantina. Perhaps they might do the other ideathat's being tossed about of allowing entertainer types to create holo's of thier performance so people cancarry them around and use them to heal bf in the wilderness. Either way, the master performers are still going to be the only ones making the money. You just need to accept that just like every other skill, nobody needs nor must accept the terms of a non-master characterwhen there are so many masters out there already.
Are you sure you know these professions? After all, why DO I need the XP so badly that I need to tip my customers? That's ahologrinder tactic. And frankly, unattendees need to tip their audience because they are so darn boring.
But to see how very much I put my economic viability in these mechanics, let me just tell you that I got tipped 8K last nite for performing 1.5 hours in a buffbot's cantina where nobody /watched me as a mere 1/0/4/3 Choreographer. Why is that, ZabreckDimo? Since you are such an expert at these professions, why was I tipped in a place where I was not even needed nor /watched?
You are just like all the other reductionists who come in here and think you know what's going on with these professions. Because has it ever occurred to you that we are not tipped for being /watched, but only for being really watched?
Because you are right, ZabreckDimo. The game mechanics are so easily given and obtained that even a vaccant character could give them away. Why would anyone think that their economic viability depended on something like that? I don't, and most entertainers I know who have lasted this long don't. Its what we do while we giveplayers the mechanics that gets us tips and respect. And it was like this before the holocrons, before the buffbots, true today, and true in the future.
I have had days where fifty people /watched me and not tipped me.
I have had days where nobody /watched me and got tipped serious bank.
And its because the ability to be /watched has no real value to me, nor is anything that will get me tipped--buff or no buff. Frankly, I can't control that, or only control it in the most minimal sense. My ability to be watched makes all the difference, and its something I can control.
You see, ZabrackDimo, they don't tip me because they feel they have to. They tip me because they want to. Why? Because they'd rather have someone like me in the cantina making things interestingthan out doing missions. And even today in a world of bots, I can still make a living with this thing.
Pay my audience? Why should I do hologrinder tactics when they pay me and not even /watch me?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-13-2004 12:53 AM
Ikewe
Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:07 am
#32
I only used the denyservice option once in a role play incident with someone wearing ST armor who had just killed several of my friends. You do have to reactivate the command each day.
I too would caution about using this command in an effort to influence people to tip or not tip. Some people are just jerks and no matter what you try to do they are going to be jerks. I've found that thanking people via tell when they do tip tends to have more of an impact with them than using the /thank command but I also will sometimes use the /thank or use spatial to thank if it seems that other players might need a bit of encouragement to tip for the service. Just keep in mind no one wants to hear people beg for money. Even though you are providing a service and not "begging" asking for tips just tends to make people not want to tip.
I'd also like to be able to share some of my nightly earnings with my fellow ATK entertainers who aren't yet able to make as much money from buffs. Can anyone here offer suggestions on doing that?
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Schardour
Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:32 am
#33
Sirii, you beat me to it! 
I was wondering why nobody had told him it's not always a race to get to Master. Most of the time, I couldn't care less about the xp I'm getting!
I was wondering why nobody had told him it's not always a race to get to Master. Most of the time, I couldn't care less about the xp I'm getting!
ZabrackDimo
Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:11 am
#34
Well, it's pretty clear you miss the whole point. While you need the watchers just as much as they need you, at master you should be getting tipped for what you do. I don't recall saying anything about not tipping people who don't need the experience if you choose to use thembut you clearly choose to assume that's what I meant. As for not knowing the profession why would you assume I did this as a hologrind? I was an entertainer way back when there actually were entertainers in every city. Afk entertainers were an unknown since nobody knew or realized there was a way to do that so if you saw a master musician/dancer, they actually sat at the keyboard and flourished by hand to master.
Entertaining never was meant to be the most profitable profession in the game. It was meant to be the most social profession in the game. If you select a customer service profession, then you should be prepared to deal with it as such. If you want to get decent tips for entertaining, then try doing more than just making your char move around or make noise.I didn't care if I was tipped or not since I was in the cantina to enjoy the company of the other people around.I made pretty decent tips without ever once asking or demanding that I be compensated for healing anyone. When you consider that entertaining has no costs attached to it, be happy if you get anything. If you feel you are owed something for being an entertainer, then you chose the wrong profession. Sadly enough, most of the entertainers today think they should be paid instead of doing this because they enjoy the interactions.
If I go into a cantina and the people there make no effort to acknowledge or engage me, why should I make the effort to reward them for nothing? I have no need of entertainers in and of themselves since I can quite easily tend all my injuries on my own. When I do go there,it's tohelp those who need it, not to watch a master. I'm not in any particular hurry so I could care less if it takes an hour to eliminate 80 fatigue.If you make that hour enjoyable, you get a very hefty reward in addition to the experience. If you choose to just sit there and hit flourish 1, flourish 2, flourish 3 and every now and then say "Don't forget to tip your entertainers!" while you are talking to your friends in tells, then you aren't any better then the afk entertainers. You merely think you are.
CirCes
Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:58 am
#35
In regard to Fuschia's posting about being more discerning about who joins the entertainer group. I noticed this quite quickly, that there are a few scammers out there, that figure they can get an invite to the Ent group and get a freebie buff without anyone noticing. And the leader being unaware..that this was occurring, due to the fact they are trusting and a bit new to the whole thing. first off..if you have a Master of any kind in your group...you should ask them if its okay..re the buff...not just invite whoever. It is up to the Master Dancer, musician, entertainer...if they choose to buff that person or not. You don't know they could be on that person's denial of service list...thats another thing.
When I lead a group..and I get tells to invite...I ALWAYS ask ..are you an entertainer. If advertising about spaces open in my group..I always say...room for more entertainers..contact me for invite ..ENTERTAINERS ONLY please...in large caps.
This eliminates some people who join..because they want better missions...too. Yet another scam. People like that should NOT be taking the place of an entertainer that needs exp.
So I whole heartedly agree with Fuschia on this subject.
Cir'Ces on Ahazi server
My two credits.
Ikewe
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:50 am
#36
I think believe it or not that Siri and ZabrackDimo are actually saying very similar things - they just think they disagree
Bottom line is you should get tipped for entertaining. If you are working at your chosen profession be it assisting with the population control of savage quenkers on Dantooine or making the poor BH who just spent an hour tracking his mark only to have his mark mysteriously disappear laugh and forget about his trouble for some period of time then you should be compensated. Times have changed and not as many combat players tip their entertainers as they did when I started so I imagine those who are starting the profession find it frustrating - especially those who start on servers where the economy is.. .unrealistic. For those entertainers I can only say, hang in there. Not all combat players are as tight with their credits. Try to continue working the crowd despite those nights when you get not one credit for your efforts. They will remember you and eventually the monetary rewards will follow.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Tralmek
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:33 am
#37
I'm glad you clarified, ZD.
I was about to quote an experience of mine from my semi-retirement post awhile back. Basicly someone demanded that I tip them for the healing xp after I traveled half-way across Tatooine to heal him.
I totally agree that live entertainers shouldn't take on the facade of LAMers...begging for tips and heals is tacky, we should be tipped forthe work we do, not just because we're there.(Although the occasional request for a heal isn't bad when you actually need it. Heheh I "love" hearing macrobots spamming for tips when they have full action bars.)
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