Dancer Archive
Thread: Panthu's Plan for World Peace: Poll (kind of)
PoetDancer wrote:
I usually do not respond to posts like this. Wholesale rethinkings of the profession do not make me a better player tonight when I play. Nor can any particular problem of what I experience when I log in today be resolved in my mind by contemplating radical changes that I can scaresly comprehend. I'd rather analyze the class as it exists today, and find solutions that can be made available today without a complete rethinking of what we do.
But I feel almost compelled to reply to a post like this when a bluetag makes it. Because they have the "Eyes and Ears of God," and I do not.
Sirii, I have to ask on things like this hon because I don't know. I'm not running to the Devs saying "Split us up! Split us up! We wanna be death machines!"...
You guys have really got to calm down... the "Plan for World Peace" was a tongue in cheek title because I was admitting right off the bat it was a widesweeping crazy kind of plan... I hope you also understand that I don't really expect Holo to ever come knocking on my door. 
If I've ever supported radical changes in the past in this forum, that has been extremely toned down since becoming a Correspondent. It's not so important what disturbs my gameplay, it's terribly important if it does yours. Be calm... meditate... I will not venture into the support class topic ever again even as something entirely new.
Go to your happy dancing place... the only thing I'm telling the Gods right now is to fix our bugs, give us some new toys, and supporting Tiaga and NewJedi in their continued effort in the quest of self buffing. 
Panthu,
This is a bit off topic for your thread and I apologize, but since the thread is about new vision I’m going to post this here. This is not directed at you as a personal attack it is directed at you because you are my correspondent and though I will happily discuss things with other entertainers it is you that carries our voices to theDEVs. We are dancers and as I’ve been pointing out our content reflects this. One flourish has no more healing effect then another yet Sony gave us so many. Why is that? I think it’s because they do intend the class to have a much more widespread effect on the game then dispensing buffs and healing the BF. Players out fighting the good fight that come to a cantina and see a good show are as mentally refreshed as the characters they play. Yet our lists of requests and the majority of the threads on our forum do not reflect this. It’s the same old topics recycled again and again and the same old list of demands again and again. Yet the issues aren’t on how to improve our “dancabilities” they are requests for more power, more money and the ever popular AFK debate. Even our most recent proposed list reflects this; the one thing that I believe our class is about is all crammed together into one issue “1. Props and Performance Enhancements (ie: group changedance and start/stop)” Now I know you believe in this strongly I saw the list you published and read the feedback you gave in my Dream Works thread. The thing is WHEN? When are we as dancers going to start putting an effort into the dance issues and not grabbing for power and money? When are issues about dancing going to occupy more then a bullet line on our wish list? When are we as a class going to be more concerned about the show and less concerned about our XP, money or power?
*hugs* Now on to the ramble!
Sultrina wrote:
Panthu,
This is a bit off topic for your thread and I apologize, but since the thread is about new vision I’m going to post this here. This is not directed at you as a personal attack it is directed at you because you are my correspondent and though I will happily discuss things with other entertainers it is you that carries our voices to theDEVs. We are dancers and as I’ve been pointing out our content reflects this. One flourish has no more healing effect then another yet Sony gave us so many. Why is that? I think it’s because they do intend the class to have a much more widespread effect on the game then dispensing buffs and healing the BF. Players out fighting the good fight that come to a cantina and see a good show are as mentally refreshed as the characters they play. Yet our lists of requests and the majority of the threads on our forum do not reflect this. It’s the same old topics recycled again and again and the same old list of demands again and again. Yet the issues aren’t on how to improve our “dancabilities” they are requests for more power, more money and the ever popular AFK debate. Even our most recent proposed list reflects this; the one thing that I believe our class is about is all crammed together into one issue “1. Props and Performance Enhancements (ie: group changedance and start/stop)” Now I know you believe in this strongly I saw the list you published and read the feedback you gave in my Dream Works thread. The thing is WHEN? When are we as dancers going to start putting an effort into the dance issues and not grabbing for power and money? When are issues about dancing going to occupy more then a bullet line on our wish list? When are we as a class going to be more concerned about the show and less concerned about our XP, money or power?
I don't now when... the problem I see is that we are many things to many people and all of those are valid... this is totally ignoring XP, AFK, and the buff-bot challenge. I would love to see huge events and performances on a regular basis on all servers. I would love to see us so flashy and wonderful that even the most die hard anti-RPer would have to stop and watch and say "wow! That is the coolest thing I have ever seen in a game ever!"
Unfortunately, we're pretty much all alone here, lol. Musicians do not seem to have this same maniacal desire for presentation. They do want their "own music", but they really do have the ability to do so much right now in a large band. I think if we had more tools like that, we would be greatly improved. I can't see any reason why we would be refused a band changedance, start/stop, and maybe even some short moves for moving around the floor.
We can do a lot of that now with the techniques described in your guide, but if we were able to make these things more "player friendly", I really do believe more people would put an effort into putting on a show. Now, you need to remember that I have a real life background in some synchronized swimming and kickline... I also have a great love of in game tools and custom content, so I may be a little warped by these things.
I really do feel like most Dancers are more disturbed with the lack of customization and synchronization than lack of "dance games", but... I also think dance games would be a nice addition. It needs to be something optional though.
I think props, wardrobe, and stage design come in right after actual Dance animations and tools as essential Presentation Elements. This is how I feel about what I called our "Show Elements" and n'Jessi was kind enough to rename "Performance Enhancements."
I do think they are our number one priority for this class. Unfortunately, they aren't very important to anyone else. Not even the other three Ent classes. *shrug*
I don't know when we'll get these things and I don't know when anyone will answer us. I have had a very encouraging email exchange with TH about it and I promise you even the great Holo knows we want them. However, we are only a small part of a very large and complex game system. I know the other classes (really, all of them) think these would be neat and fun things to have, but they are not as pressing as the GCW, making our PvP system rewarding and dynamic, and creating compelling PvE options such as our new Dungeons.
In a Social MMO, these things would take front stage... but in SWG we are only a loosely connected Social portion of a much bigger game. I've "played" most of the Social MMOs and there is a lot that I like about them that I would like for us to have in SWG... but those aren't really games, they are social environments that aren't very compelling after a long period of exposure. Here, in SWG, we have a chance to have that kind of content in a constantly changing and compelling virtual world. No other game has ever attempted this. It is very exciting. 
The problem I see is making this important to the wider gamebase. Like it or not, 95% of the gamebase will be louder than 5%. It's not that we aren't important, we just aren't critical. We're still in critical mode this early in the game. We're really lucky, we are getting a lot of Dev time right now with our quests and "Hutt Casino". I don't know what they are going to be and I don't know how much they will improve our Presentation if any. I do know that a lot of time and resources are going into them and for that I am very grateful.
This is getting way too long, but my point is... yes, I do get how important our presentation is to us and yes I do get how important our Social is. I'm just not sure how to get others to "get it"... I believe the best way to do this is to pull them in with anything we can. I'm not open to all these other additions and crazy schemes as a replacement for real Visual Enhancements and Tools but as a means to achieving them.
The method so far has been for those Performance minded people to take the attitude of "oh, I'll PvE as much as I have to so I can preserve our Social and Visual aspects, don't touch them! They are fine!"... when instead we should have been saying "Sure come on in and join our fun, wouldn't it be cool if we could do this for a show? Or this? Or that?" We need other people to care and ask for these things, the game has to have these other people to survive. Unfortunately, we've made it very easy for them to ignore us while trying to keep them out. 
We may be seeing something really wonderful and new for us in the GCW/CB that has nothing to do with combat but would help reintroduce us as and integral part of the system like BF once did. It might come in the form of a BF revamp. I don’t know. I know that every class has been promised an integral role in the GCW and another look at fun. I’m talking, I’m hopeful, I’m not saying anything weird to them but this probably isn’t the last time I will throw something strange out there to get feedback from you guys.
They haven’t asked me yet what all we’re open to, I just want to be ready if they ever do. The only things I’m really sure on is that we want more Performance Enhancements (yes, dances, tools, props, all of it), fixed bugs, and the much talked about ability to buff ourselves.
For anything else, I’m watching you guys.
)Let musicians and dancers group together to buff people with all stats at the same time but take longer(like that will ever happen ). They need to make it so people will want to see them, not just stop in and find the person with the "Master" tag up to heal their wounds asap.Yes! We really need this.
Thakkin wrote:
One thing I forgot to add is, give entertainers a way to make holograms of themselves playing music or dancing so I can have a small hologram of Panthu doing the robot on my nightstand
*huggles Thakk*"I want to entertainand I want to be helpful".... that's been the mantra of many a dancer.
I agree that we don't want to take away any reason a client might have for visiting a cantina. Shows don't do much good if you don't have an audience. Some people come grumbling into a cantina and leave with a smile. If there's any sort of field healing I'd like to see if be temporary healing, maybe 10 or 15 minutes and short timed mind buffs, again 10 to 15 minutes. That would certainly keep the troop morale profession busy during a battle, but if people want long lasting buffsor complete heals thenthey would still need to visit a traditional entertainer. So after 15 minutes in battle, afterhaving your wounds healed, they reappear even worse than before and you keep returning to the troop morale healer until the end of the battle when you badly need to visit a cantina entertainer. You'd probably also want to visit a cantina entertainer for a longer lasting buff prior to going into battle.
Also I think if anyone is going to craft dancer's hand heldprops, it should be dancers just like musicians craft their own instruments. I have no problem with IDs crafting makeup, spa products, or some hair accessories, though Ithink wardrobe should be left to the tailors and set designs should be left to architects... interaction with other professions is a good thing.
"I want to entertainand I want to be helpful".... that's been the mantra of many a dancer.
I agree that we don't want to take away any reason a client might have for visiting a cantina. Shows don't do much good if you don't have an audience. Some people come grumbling into a cantina and leave with a smile. If there's any sort of field healing I'd like to see if be temporary healing, maybe 10 or 15 minutes and short timed mind buffs, again 10 to 15 minutes. That would certainly keep the troop morale profession busy during a battle, but if people want long lasting buffsor complete heals thenthey would still need to visit a traditional entertainer. So after 15 minutes in battle, afterhaving your wounds healed, they reappear even worse than before and you keep returning to the troop morale healer until the end of the battle when you badly need to visit a cantina entertainer. You'd probably also want to visit a cantina entertainer for a longer lasting buff prior to going into battle.
Also I think if anyone is going to craft dancer's hand heldprops, it should be dancers just like musicians craft their own instruments. I have no problem with IDs crafting makeup, spa products, or some hair accessories, though Ithink wardrobe should be left to the tailors and set designs should be left to architects... interaction with other professions is a good thing.