Dancer Archive
Thread: You finally convinced me!!
I am a member of The Bishops, a unique intra-group of TFhealer professionals who support ourPvP sisterguild, True Fellowship Knights. At arecent PvP event we were busy buffing not just our guildies, but the entire Rebel army in the cantina beforehand! We provided a small generic house just outside the battlefield for healing, as well. Would it make more sense to drop a camp? Of course, but none of us have the skills to do more than a basic camp. Did we gain faction points or get any other perks? No. But it didn't matter, as a RPer, I felt I was doing my part for the Rebellion.
We do what we can the best way we can. If that isn't someones style, then by all means, don't do it. However, it is something I enjoy - I look forward to The Bishops becomingthe benchmark for otherPAs to follow in creating similar groups.
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 05-01-2004 01:29 PM
Leonae wrote:
As I have said before - I find the image of a dancing in combat absolutely ridicoulos. Period. I can't even fathom how anyone can take such a thing seriously. Dancing to get someone back into the fight as fast as possible, under fire? Get a grip. Dancers heal mind by helping people relax and recover from stress - this won't be done when you are under fire. I can see combat medics and doctors struggling to keep a wounded alive in a corner while people cover them, but a dancer in the same situation? Ugh, no.
My gut response is just to say that, luckily, you are not the only one playing the game. Instead, I'll counter with this:
The Laker Girls
Adam Sandler
Drew Cary
Alysa Milano
Arnold Schwarzenegger
The late Bob Hope
And so many other selfless entertainers have put themselves into hostile situations to do what they could with the skills they posses to heal the very real and very dangerous effects of real life battle fatigue. They were protected by the soldiers they were helping. Were these people out shooting at the bad guys? No, however, every branch of the US military has a band and the soldiers, airmen, seamen and marines who participate in these entities are also trained in combat. They go to hostile fire locations and do what they can with the skills they posses and if someone were to shoot at them you'd better believe they'd use thier combat skills to shoot back.
Leonae wrote:
Silly,all those entertainers were not under fire - they did not venture out with a squad and entertained while they fought in the streets and trenches - they entertained behind the front, in makeshift theatres and stages. Dangerous? Sure. But they were not, never, meant to entertain while under fire.
Stop pretending any modern army had entertainers who dance and crack jokes during a firefight. You can do what those men and women can in SWG. What you want is a battle bard, dancing between blaster bolts. Not bob hope keeping morale high.
And those military entertainers - they shoot back during fights, they don't dance and sing. Exactly like in SWG.
I get your distinction Leonae, I got it the first time too. I think you missed mine.
There is a game need for blue healing in combat. It is a little different than Doctor Damage/Wound Healing and Buffing. You can argue till you are blue in the face that our wound healing should be done in camps just like Medic Wound healing, but med droids make this not the case.
The problem here is that our RP Dancer role does not matter a fig when you are talking about the Blue healing problem and the fact that we are the only ones who can heal these wounds and buff these stats. Maybe this will change after the CB... but for now a "Dancer under fire" makes sense in pure gaming terms.
There is something wrong with the system that is creating this "silly" arrangement and need. One solution would be to give us anywhere/anytime full healing abilities... the other is to give it to someone else. For now though, the need is there. If cool real Dancers like Silly aren't doing it, then other non-Social PvP players will pick up Dancing to fill the in battle need. (I know some of these players... you can bet your tushy these aren't people who would ever put on a show... Silly would)
We can't whine to keep the blue healing arrangement and at the same time whine if some people use it in battle. It just isn't logical.
This isn't the gimme gimme gaming problem you are talking about, this is a real game need. If you want more immersive restrictions for Dancers, then you have to come to grips with the fact that someone else will be given this job. PvP is our elder game, it can have RP restrictions, you can fight to keep us out of it, but you need to understand you will be removing us from the one thing that makes the Elder Gamers care about us.
Leonae wrote:
Silly,all those entertainers were not under fire - they did not venture out with a squad and entertained while they fought in the streets and trenches - they entertained behind the front, in makeshift theatres and stages. Dangerous? Sure. But they were not, never, meant to entertain while under fire.
Stop pretending any modern army had entertainers who dance and crack jokes during a firefight. You can do what those men and women can in SWG. What you want is a battle bard, dancing between blaster bolts. Not bob hope keeping morale high.
And those military entertainers - they shoot back during fights, they don't dance and sing. Exactly like in SWG.
Message Edited by Leonae on 05-01-2004 08:44 PM
ugh, are we still talking about this?
Ok yeah, I don't dance until I'm in a safe place to do so, same as the real ones. I don't think anyone is asking to be any kind ofbard and I don't think anyone is asking to be able tosomehow use dance as a defense while under fire. What we are asking for here is improved mobility, improved buffs , and the ability to stop dancing when we do happen to come under fire. Just please explain to me how it is detrimental to your game for me to have these abilities. Please explain why we shouldn't have them if you feel we should not have them. Some dancers are RP only and that's super. I completely support petitions for more props and better lighting effects and better tools for controling how we look when we dance. But regardless of how you feel about it, we are also healers and I think as healers we are greatly lacking. If I had to chose between looking pretty and being a better healer I would chose being a better healer. Being more effective to myself, my friends, and the random passerby who just so happens to need my help...that is what I want. I really can't fathom why you would be opposed to that.
TheSillyOne wrote:
Leonae wrote:
Silly,all those entertainers were not under fire - they did not venture out with a squad and entertained while they fought in the streets and trenches - they entertained behind the front, in makeshift theatres and stages. Dangerous? Sure. But they were not, never, meant to entertain while under fire.
Stop pretending any modern army had entertainers who dance and crack jokes during a firefight. You can do what those men and women can in SWG. What you want is a battle bard, dancing between blaster bolts. Not bob hope keeping morale high.
And those military entertainers - they shoot back during fights, they don't dance and sing. Exactly like in SWG.
Message Edited by Leonae on 05-01-2004 08:44 PM
ugh, are we still talking about this?
Ok yeah, I don't dance until I'm in a safe place to do so, same as the real ones. I don't think anyone is asking to be any kind ofbard and I don't think anyone is asking to be able tosomehow use dance as a defense while under fire. What we are asking for here is improved mobility, improved buffs , and the ability to stop dancing when we do happen to come under fire. Just please explain to me how it is detrimental to your game for me to have these abilities. Please explain why we shouldn't have them if you feel we should not have them. Some dancers are RP only and that's super. I completely support petitions for more props and better lighting effects and better tools for controling how we look when we dance. But regardless of how you feel about it, we are also healers and I think as healers we are greatly lacking. If I had to chose between looking pretty and being a better healer I would chose being a better healer. Being more effective to myself, my friends, and the random passerby who just so happens to need my help...that is what I want. I really can't fathom why you would be opposed to that.
Lesia wrote:
Seems dancers do serve a purpose without being in the middle of the battle. The way I pictured my role as a PvPdancer was to be workingfrom a campoutside ofthe line of fire,protected by my faction. It's a matter of deciding which is your primary focus, to fight or to heal. This certainly works from arp viewpoint. The soldiers are injured and need to rest ina camp to be healed. They get theirwounds healed and can be buffed. That makes the PvP dancerimportant and worth protecting. It fits into game mechanics and rp. I'm not sure why it would be important to have a fast stop dance (I'm not opposed to it, I just don't see it as necessary if your primary job is dancing in a camp). I'm not even sure faster healing and buffs would have an effect on PvP, if both sides have the same ability then the outcomeshould be the same. As a dancer it really should be up to your fellow Imperials or Rebels to protect you because you're valuable to them.
Just a correction - Bob Hope indeed DID come underfire, several times! Not only that, he was TARGETED by the enemy more than once for assination! He even had his plane fired upon, if I remember correctly.All of the entertainers, from Hope to Ann Margaret to Brooke Shieldsknew that they were placing themselves in harm's way and relied on the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen to protect them. Unfortunatetly for them, just being in the warzone made them vunerable. The enemy didn't have to ask to "duel" before attacking - they were automatically TEFed . . .
I don't PvP as a dancer or anything else,yet I have no objections at all if other entertainers like to. (I suspect my own darling Roho would be move physically involved in the battles if it were for me . . . .) However, please be sure of your facts before you state them. Every time RL entertainers travel to a warzone they place themselves at risk of being captured, injured or killed. I'm glad I havea choice in SWG that they never get . . .
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 05-02-2004 08:35 AM
Yes, they were at risk - but the US Army did not plan to have them under fire. They did not send Bob Hope along with a recon platoon and told him to keep morale up during contact withthe enemy.
IMHO, SWG offers already those "Troop morale" gigs. They do need, however, some form of planning - choose locations, plant a house, ora camp if you can get by with healing mind wounds, and protect that location. Sure, it would be nice to be able to drop an animation fast - the unarmed 3 animation runs for some seconds as well, rooting you in place during a fight - but it is not a make or break point, just a task for the guards - they have to make sure the entertainers have enough time to run.
Those limitations add, in my opinion, to the game, and do not distract from it, since they offer challenges to overcome, and opportunities to strike at the other side.You have to make choices - flourish more often for better healing, at a risk for yourself, or keep (mainly) dancing, and be able to move at once. Drop a camp and heal mind wounds, or place a house a bit farther away, to heal BF as well. Or use a cantina nearby, if there is one.
I no longer understand the reasoning behind belaboring this . . . you don't like to PvP dance. Fine. Neither do I. Never-the-less, I am not going to tell someone else they can't simply because I think they shouldn't. And I am certainly not going to advocate having "limitations" placed that would restrict them from doing somethingthey enjoywhen the mere fact that they do has absolutely NO effect on me.
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 05-02-2004 08:55 AM
Don't put words in my mouth - I like PvP dancing. I just think the current limits on it are fine and dandy, and add to the game. Remove this, and you make the game easier, and remove another challenge. Contrary to PvE, where I can go out without armor or buffs to be challenged, I can't do that in PvP, since that would hurt my team, all other things being even. So, should they add "combat dancing" for example then I will be forced to do it, if I want to keep supporting my team.
Leonae, youcan continue this with someone else if they want to jump in. I've made my thoughts known and I don't believe in beating a dead horse.
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 05-03-2004 07:51 AM