CUEmu - Thread Posts

Drygo

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:48 am

The way you phrased it made it sound like you were saying people don't wait for dancer buffs---they wait for smoke and potty breaks tho. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, people wait for all of the above, I agree.

- I support hawtpants

Kreistor

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:12 am

#15

rayill wrote:

I completely agree with you, Leonae. I don't know how many times that I have had to explain to people that buffs and armor are not a necessity to being able to combat things in this game. Hell, I'd go as far as to say that a player is capable of running missions without buffs, armor, or the Medic skill.

People in this game seem to be lacking the insight of actually using strategy to accomplish things. These people have to buffed to the nines wearing full armor because all they know how to do is to run up into the face of a mob and spam moves on them until the mob dies. They may occassionally have to clear their spam in order to hit a stimpack. There is no skill or strategy to this approach.

This is just another reflection of how people want instant gratification for their money. Do I want to be satisfied with the game since I am paying my money to SOE every month? Sure, but I want my gameplay to reflect my skills, and I am willing to spend time to achieve this. Hell, I'd even chance thedeath of my characterby testing my limits, seeing ifI can handle the situation. A trip to the cloning lab is not going to break me. I'll just have to reinsure my items. Unless you are a Jedi in this game, item decay is really the only penalty for dying. There is no skill revocation for the regular players when they die. Wounds, battle fatigue, and item decay are not serious threats to avoid dying. All of them can be fixed relatively easily.

However, given the apparent age of what seems to be a majority of the players, I sincerely doubt that they would be able to understand or grasp these concepts since it requires more than just pressing a few buttons as quickly as possible so that they can "win".

Remember when you watched Return of the Jedi, and a Rancor was a creature that was feared and unbeatable by any but a jedi, and not some annoyance that even Oola could best by herself if she had a doctor with her?

Ub-ick Esava
----------
Bria - Working towards Master Dancer one fall at a time

Lowca - Master Dancer Extraordinaire
*CENSORS* Cantina, Honor's Keep, Corellia,

rayill

Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:43 am

#16

Kreistor wrote:

Remember when you watched Return of the Jedi, and a Rancor was a creature that was feared and unbeatable by any but a jedi, and not some annoyance that even Oola could best by herself if she had a doctor with her?

I know exactly what you mean! Yet, the people who want to play want to be able to take on Krayt Dragons and Night Sisters and other FS mobs as easily as possible. They want to be able to take on a Krayt Dragon single-handedly. I remember playing Knights of the Old Republic and the only way to beat the Krayt Dragon there was to walk it over several frag mines. To beat the Rancors at the beginning of the game, you fed them Frag Grenades. At the end of the game, rancors could tear you up quite easily despite the fact that you were quite skilled as a Jedi.

Heck, even Luke had to find a strategic way to beat the Rancor in RotJ.

Rayill Yi'tun

Master Dancer

- I support ATK people and playstyles

Kreistor

Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:48 am

#17

rayill wrote:

I know exactly what you mean! Yet, the people who want to play want to be able to take on Krayt Dragons and Night Sisters and other FS mobs as easily as possible. They want to be able to take on a Krayt Dragon single-handedly. I remember playing Knights of the Old Republic and the only way to beat the Krayt Dragon there was to walk it over several frag mines. To beat the Rancors at the beginning of the game, you fed them Frag Grenades. At the end of the game, rancors could tear you up quite easily despite the fact that you were quite skilled as a Jedi.

Heck, even Luke had to find a strategic way to beat the Rancor in RotJ.

What's really sad is the fact that at first players couldn't solo these monstrous giants easily. Then SOE gave them the ability to do so.

They whined, SOE caved in. They did the same in EQ.

That's what's sad

Ub-ick Esava
----------
Bria - Working towards Master Dancer one fall at a time

Lowca - Master Dancer Extraordinaire
*CENSORS* Cantina, Honor's Keep, Corellia,

ArgentWulf

Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:05 am

#18

I agree with Flechette, Deila and others in this thread. I wonder how people ever advanced without buffs? I' m working on TK and sometimes play in the morning when there arnt a lot of Docs on. I also like to do my harvester runs first thing in the morning. I tend to run into things unbuffed a LOT. Well you take your time, break them down into manageable amounts and use . . . I think some one else used the almost forgotten term . . .strategy. It can work quite well. The last line in my tag says it all. The rest has evolved but that line has been there from the beginning and will stay there in the future.

Leivi Esava
Galaxy Girl for May 2005
Life is a journey, not a destination, enjoy the ride! A special friend makes it even more fun.

kirah_ashlin

Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:14 am

#19

Personally, I got a big kick out of your apparent TIC post, Fletchette! I think that we all need to sit back and take a deep breath if we find something like the original post offensive. Let's face it - the game has become ridiculous - catering to the exterme mentalitythat wants everything at no cost and then still isn't satisfied because they are dependant on other players for certain game aspects. I suppose they would prefer to be able to buff, heal and arm themselves without interference from other player classes. After all, theywant tosolo a hoard of rancors, polish off a mob of krayts and wipe the floor with a band of nightsisters all in five minutes flat so they can run back to town and brag about their conquests - to the other ten players who are left in the game . . .

TheSillyOne

Sat May 01, 2004 2:52 am

#20

Pick up with a PvP group, spend a few months fighting with them then return to this conversation. Perhaps your view will have been altered a bit. I'm not trying to be a grouch here but it seems to me that most of the arguments regarding what dancers need in order to be effective are based on speculation.

Dancers who wish soley to entertain need props and /bandformation commands and such

Dancers who wish to heal need mobility (in the form of gypsy tents or healing droids or camps where bf healing is possible)

Dancers who wish to sell buffs need a marketable buff and in my opinion the current buffs (minus all the bugs) is marketable.

Dancers who wish to PvP need the fastest buff possible, (durration is less important than speed of application). They need skill points available to invest in other more combat oriented proffessions, they need to be able to stop on a dime and run away and they really need portable healing. But more than all of that we absolutely need the ability to buff our own minds.

I don't think that Dancers are looking to be "uber", just effective. Suggesting that the current state of this proffession is acceptable is an insult to even the AFK bots.

-silly-

Save your breath. You'll need it later to blow up your date.

Leonae

Sat May 01, 2004 4:20 am

#21

TheSillyOne wrote:

Pick up with a PvP group, spend a few months fighting with them then return to this conversation. Perhaps your view will have been altered a bit. I'm not trying to be a grouch here but it seems to me that most of the arguments regarding what dancers need in order to be effective are based on speculation.

Dancers who wish soley to entertain need props and /bandformation commands and such

Dancers who wish to heal need mobility (in the form of gypsy tents or healing droids or camps where bf healing is possible)

Dancers who wish to sell buffs need a marketable buff and in my opinion the current buffs (minus all the bugs) is marketable.

Dancers who wish to PvP need the fastest buff possible, (durration is less important than speed of application). They need skill points available to invest in other more combat oriented proffessions, they need to be able to stop on a dime and run away and they really need portable healing. But more than all of that we absolutely need the ability to buff our own minds.

I don't think that Dancers are looking to be "uber", just effective. Suggesting that the current state of this proffession is acceptable is an insult to even the AFK bots.

Silly, you fall prey to the same view most gamers odo - you are used to having everything and instantly, and when that is not the case it seems to be broken. Take a look what we already have.

Need to buff our own minds? Team up with a couple other dancers, and I guarantee you will not need to be able to buf your own mind.

Ability to heal BF in the field? As if there was not a cantina in every corner of the worlds. As if you could not just drop a small house and start to heal BF.

Enough skill points? 140ish skill points are sufficient. No, you can't max an ubertemplate and still be Master dancer - this would be blatantly unbalanced. You can, however, master an elite combat profession without troubles, and dabble in a few others.

The ability to stop on a dime and run away? Don't flourish too often.

Fastest buff possible? It looks like this is over 2 minutes nowadaysm so unless you specifically want a faster buff you already have the fastest buff available.

I am not trying to be a grouch here, but it seems you just want all on a platter, and no limits to work within. You can use strategy and tactics to deal with the current limitations, you don't need an "Heal/Buff instantly everywhere button" to be effective. You can't have everything for nothing, all comes with a price.

TheSillyOne

Sat May 01, 2004 5:11 am

#22

Leonae wrote:

Silly, you fall prey to the same view most gamers odo - you are used to having everything and instantly, and when that is not the case it seems to be broken. Take a look what we already have.

Need to buff our own minds? Team up with a couple other dancers, and I guarantee you will not need to be able to buf your own mind.

Ability to heal BF in the field? As if there was not a cantina in every corner of the worlds. As if you could not just drop a small house and start to heal BF.

Enough skill points? 140ish skill points are sufficient. No, you can't max an ubertemplate and still be Master dancer - this would be blatantly unbalanced. You can, however, master an elite combat profession without troubles, and dabble in a few others.

The ability to stop on a dime and run away? Don't flourish too often.

Fastest buff possible? It looks like this is over 2 minutes nowadaysm so unless you specifically want a faster buff you already have the fastest buff available.

I am not trying to be a grouch here, but it seems you just want all on a platter, and no limits to work within. You can use strategy and tactics to deal with the current limitations, you don't need an "Heal/Buff instantly everywhere button" to be effective. You can't have everything for nothing, all comes with a price.

No ma'am. I do not expect dancer to have limitless abilities and everything instantaneous. I do however expect my playstyle to be respected. I would like to be effective in pvp. It's that simple. I think that if any ranged weapons class can be mastered without the ranged support line from marksman and any crafting class can be mastered with only one line from artisan then it stands to reason that we could have those extra 14 points from the entertainer healing tree. Now, I know that we are not unique in needing multiple lines to get to the elite proffession, but the idea is that skill points should purchase usefullness and ability and for dancer they do not. We 're not alone in this and i'm not looking to compare. It's wrong for every class that is plagued with it.

Teaming up with other dancers is great and is currently my stratedgyto overcome the fact that I cannot buff my own mind. However this doubles the prep timebecause not only can i not buff my own mind but i can not recieve a buff while I am dancing.Beyond that,I have spent the skill points to be able to buff the mind pool and would like to know what makes you believe I don't deserve to benefit from that investment.It's ludicrist to not be able to use the skills I possestomy own benefit.

If you'd read some of my other posts ( or even this one) you'd know that I would encourage modified master ranger camps requiring bio engineered components or droids with the same BE components or some kind of Entertainer only gypsy tent that we could make (similar to musicians making instruments). These things are not instant gratification items. They would require several members of the community to work together to produce and in the instance of the ranger camp it would require an entirely seperate master skill to even deploy. As for cantina's being on every corner, we are talking here about overt operations and field dancers. TEF's , city and cantina bans,as well as geographical location (in the event of a cave hunt or such) are all limiting factors in entering and using a cantina or structure to heal up in. Please explain to me why we CAN'T heal outside of the cantina. Why are we chained to those overcrowded lagged outstructures? Why are we not being encouraged to go along on hunts to the far ends of the Galaxy and explore these places just like any other class? Dropping a small house is a good idea and I've done that in the past but there are terrain issues and on some planets it's simply not alowed.

Don't flourish too often is your big solution to stopping a dance when i'm being attacked? Lyrical2 has flourishes that run well over 20 seconds long I have some custom made flourishes that exceed 30 seconds. Lyrical and popular2 are my favorite dances. I stick mostly to popular2 in combat situations because the flourishes are only 6-8 seconds long but if you've ever been in a PvP battle, I'm sure you realize that an unarmored dancer in her dance gear wont' even last 8 seconds. Flourishes= healing and that would be why i'm there. your suggestion is horrible.

As for the 2 minute buff, I'm not unhappy with that. If we can make it faster yeah, that's good. By the time the Doctors are done with everyone 2 minutes has long since passed. However, after someone has been killed and resucitated and when i'm in the basement of an enemy base which happens to be under attack at the moment I want to be able to get my friend back into combat as quickly as possible as well as getting me out of dance mode and back into save my own ass mode as quickly as I can. 2 minutes in PvP is the differencebetween victoryand defeat.

I hope all of this text has done a better job of explaining my point of view. Please understand that there are multiple play styles even in the social classes. Please do not suggest that I am lacking patience. I've been a dancer since june and i'll be a dancer until the Starsider server is unplugged and dismantled. I'm trying every way I can to continue to grow in this proffession and as I'm taking it into the realm of Factional Combat and high end hunts I'm finding that is is severely lacking. I'm sure you can appreciate my point of view.

-silly-

Save your breath. You'll need it later to blow up your date.

Sultrina

Sat May 01, 2004 5:15 am

#23

Silly your point about being attacked while flourishing is only have the issue, as a roleplayer there are times I need to stop dancing on a dime to respond in some roleplay mannor. I've been begging for this issue to be addresed and I'm glad you pointed out another good reason that /stopd should stop you smoothly, but using your movement keys should end dancing NOW!

Leonae

Sat May 01, 2004 6:07 am

#24

As I have said before - I find the image of a dancing in combat absolutely ridicoulos. Period. I can't even fathom how anyone can take such a thing seriously. Dancing to get someone back into the fight as fast as possible, under fire? Get a grip. Dancers heal mind by helping people relax and recover from stress - this won't be done when you are under fire. I can see combat medics and doctors struggling to keep a wounded alive in a corner while people cover them, but a dancer in the same situation? Ugh, no.

Panthu

Sat May 01, 2004 7:39 am

#25

Leonae wrote:

As I have said before - I find the image of a dancing in combat absolutely ridicoulos. Period. I can't even fathom how anyone can take such a thing seriously. Dancing to get someone back into the fight as fast as possible, under fire? Get a grip. Dancers heal mind by helping people relax and recover from stress - this won't be done when you are under fire. I can see combat medics and doctors struggling to keep a wounded alive in a corner while people cover them, but a dancer in the same situation? Ugh, no.

Silly isn't the only Dancer doing this. She is one of the few that bridges the gap between Social content and game mechanics. She is also one of the best Dance Events planners we have on Starsider... which is saying a lot considering it is one of the largest RP servers.

I don't PvP Dance very often for my own personal hang ups, but it's not because I'm not wanted or needed. Blue healing is very important at this time. I love my PvP patrons... they are nice, polite, and tip well. I restrict myself to neutral Cantina environments normally, but it is unreasonable to expect other Dancers not to take advantage of this system and go where they are being called. I really don't know why any factioned Dancer wouldn't offer this service for his/her side as long as the need exists.

I realize that I am denying myself a lot of possible game content by remaining Neutral, but it's not because I'm a Dancer. It's because Neutral fits my style of Dancing better.

If they change mind healing and damage in PvP, then we might not be needed anymore. For now though we are and I'd hate to discourage any live Dancer from fulfilling a game need.

P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Leonae

Sat May 01, 2004 8:59 am

#26

Hey... I think you do not get my problem - I am all for dancers getting involved with healing PvPers, but... dancing in the middle of a firefight? That is just, excuse the pun, way too silly.

Sure, it would be useful in any PvP fight, but... so would be an instant "heal all HAM pools" button. Or a magic item that teleported the whole party ... excuse me, group, to an extradimensional cantina/med centre where they could be healed and buffed while out of the reach of their enemies. And an instant shuttle on demand to any spot on the map would also be very useful, especially for raids.

We can heal mind wounds and BF, providing a much needed service to all PvPers. We don't need to be able to heal them anywhere and under any conditions. It is up to the players to adapt to the tactical and strategical challenges this situation offers.

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