Dancer Archive
Thread: An end to the plague but-
Sigrun wrote:Sorry, you might, in fact, need to try harder.Just the other day, I was spinning through Theed... on Kettemoor, I think... and I spotted a throng of blue dots (I'm neutral - they're all blue) over by the fountain. Curious, I sprinted over there (is there any other way to move in this game?) to see what's doing.Well, what was doing was about half a dozen bots throwing effects all over the place for about a dozen musicians and dancers doing their thing. And around that group of entertainers was... *gasp*... a bunch of people watching them, cheering them on, generally having a grand old time.There was no spam that one typically sees coming from AFK dancer-bots. There weren't even any (AFK) flags flying overhead.Just a group of entertainers and their audience, having a damn fine time.All of this during a time when the controls still exist to create looping macros.Hmm.
Sorry Sigrun, but what does a gathering of entertainers by a fountain have to do with competing with buffbots in a cantina?
On Bria, there are many events that bring entertainers from across all servers: Cantina Crawls, StarPort Jams, etc. Yes, they do a very good job at making people aware of Live entertainers and what they can do. We've even had a few people pick on Novice Entertainer because of the fun we were demonstrating.
But this is completely separate from the abosulte impossibility of competing with an automoton that can service people 23/7 and asks for NO MONEY in return. Buffbots belittle the entertainer professions and make it near impossible for us to make a living. Any help we get to get rid of that menace is MORE than welcome.
So you went off planet to tiny cantinas to entertain the masses and make cash. That's fine, but it's not what a lot of entertainers want, which is to be able to entertain again in Coronet, Theed and the places where the party was hopping 24x7. You yourself state that you abandoned those places, why?
"How about YOU walk a mile in MY shoes now? Go get 900 BF at 1:00am PST and see how long you spend finding an ATK entertainer to heal that up so you can defeat someting touger than a gnort again. Let me know how much you enjoy the quality down-time."
Done it. Of course, that was back when real entertainers still staffed the cantinas, before AFKing became widespread. Every cantina I walked into, be it Theed, Moenia, Keren, Kaadara, Coronet, Kor Vella, even places like Rori that I visited, every single one had a live entertainer. They were enjoying it, they didn't even know how to loop their macros yet. Of course now you can't find an entertainer in any of those places because they've all left for greener pastures and the AFKers just park in Coronet and Theed. I want that world back, how about you?
"Then go master Weaponsmith without using the /macro or /ui action toolbarSlotXX commands. If you're ona server that I play, I'll even buy you the resources just to watch you do it. Let me know how much you enjoy the mind-numbing clicking."
I'm a master tailor, done the hard way, no macros. Yes, it was a lot of work and a lot of clicking. I think there are potentially great ways of streamlining the process, but looping macros doesn't even rank in the top 5. I'm sorry, but that's not a valid argument at all. It's like using a bandaid to try to plug a leak in your water supply. It might work, especially if you put enough bandages on it, but come on, there are much better ways to plug a leak.
- J
picklesSW wrote:
"Walk a mile in your shoes? I did. It's not all that bad if you don't allow yourself to be offended by the text, "(AFK)"."
So you went off planet to tiny cantinas to entertain the masses and make cash. That's fine, but it's not what a lot of entertainers want, which is to be able to entertain again in Coronet, Theed and the places where the party was hopping 24x7. You yourself state that you abandoned those places, why?
- J
Entertainers want to be where the entertainers are, which is not where they are needed. That's just great. Except in the combat system, they're support characters. In order to most effectively play their role, they need to be where they're needed - the adventure worlds. Basically what I'm reading in that statement is that a) you care less about your customers than your own sense of entertainment and b) you have little to no intent to be present for your customers when the time comes that they really need you. So you're screwing us twice - by removing looping macros AND by not being there to help out once they're gone. Thanks. Maybe kiss me first next time?
Why did I leave those places? I don't like crowds. Never have. IRL or in an MMOG.
Theed was nice. Kept to a crowd ofabout a dozenentertainers and another dozen patrons at its busiest. Some AFK, some not, but I'm not the type to be offended by a little (AFK) hanging over someone's head. I AM offended by idiot kids breaking out huge pets in crowded cantinas and plopping them on top of other peoples' heads, but that's another story.
The adventure worlds were nicer. There, I heard stories about peoples... erm... adventures as I did my thing.
Sigrun wrote:
Drygo wrote:
I am so so tired of people making the statement, "if you only tried hard enough." Please. I have tried, and I've tried very hard. I repeatedly have tried to compete with the buffbots, only to literally waste hours upon hours of my time because I couldn't get but one or two stray customers. You will never convince me that if only I try hard enough. It's insulting and implies that I don't know what I'm doing or how to play my profession, which is so far from the truth that it's not even funny. I will *not* be in a Cantina trying to sell buffs if there is a buffbot there. Why the hell should I waste four hours of my time on perhaps two customers?
Sorry, you might, in fact, need to try harder.
Just the other day, I was spinning through Theed... on Kettemoor, I think... and I spotted a throng of blue dots (I'm neutral - they're all blue)over by the fountain. Curious, I sprinted over there (is there any other way to move in this game?) to see what's doing.
Well, what was doing was about half a dozen bots throwing effects all over the place for about a dozen musicians and dancers doing their thing. And around that group of entertainers was... *gasp*... a bunch of people watching them, cheering them on, generally having a grand old time.
There was no spam that one typically sees coming from AFK dancer-bots. There weren't even any (AFK) flags flying overhead.
Just a group of entertainers and their audience, having a damn fine time.
All of this during a time when the controls still exist to create looping macros.
Hmm.
Like Kreistor said, this has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to sell mind buffs. Try again.
Drygo wrote:
Like Kreistor said, this has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to sell mind buffs. Try again.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
There is SOOOOOOOOO much wrong with that first paragraph.
Entertainers want to be where the entertainers are, which is not where they are needed. That's just great. Except in the combat system, they're support characters. In order to most effectively play their role, they need to be where they're needed - the adventure worlds. Basically what I'm reading in that statement is that a) you care less about your customers than your own sense of entertainment and b) you have little to no intent to be present for your customers when the time comes that they really need you. So you're screwing us twice - by removing looping macros AND by not being there to help out once they're gone. Thanks. Maybe kiss me first next time?
Why did I leave those places? I don't like crowds. Never have. IRL or in an MMOG.
Theed was nice. Kept to a crowd ofabout a dozenentertainers and another dozen patrons at its busiest. Some AFK, some not, but I'm not the type to be offended by a little (AFK) hanging over someone's head. I AM offended by idiot kids breaking out huge pets in crowded cantinas and plopping them on top of other peoples' heads, but that's another story.
The adventure worlds were nicer. There, I heard stories about peoples... erm... adventures as I did my thing.
When you are out on an adventure planet 9 times out of 10 you have to return to coronet for buffs anyway, are you telling me theres always a master doctor buffing on dathomir at 2 am as well? Is that little shuttle flight and the loss of a few thousand credits such amajor imposition that your gameplay experience is totaly and utterly destroyed by having to go back to coronet to get healed? Because you know what, the entertainers gameplay experience IS totaly and uterly destroyed by buffbots and afk zombies. Furthermore when jump to lightspeed ships there isnt even going to be shuttle wait left to blame cause you can just fast travel to any planet of your choosing.
Why is 20 minutes of your night to go back to coronet and find an entertainer more important than whether or not an entire group of people are able to feel that they are a needed and respected part of the game?
Entertainer is a profession, in order for a profession to work the people involved in the profession have to have a purpose some reason for existance. When there is a buffbot in a cantina 24 hours a day i no longer feel as if i have a purpose, i start to wonder, what am i even doing here? SO many people come in here and say "you entertainers are just jealous" "your just mad cause you cant make any money". You know what i have a crafter character as well, she's got about 13 million on her.So im mad cause i cant get a tip? No, im upset because i like to feel like im a part of something,I like it when someone says thank you for the mind buff, or you look realy nice in that outfit. It's recognition, feeling that your efforts are doing some good.
I don't think you have any clue as to what it feels like to watch 20 people stand in a mob around a buffbot lavishing atention on it that it doesn't even see while you stand there on your side of the cantina watching people walk past for 3 hours as not one single person stops to see you. When i used to entertain last september when i started, i had regular customers that i liked seing i'd see them come in 2 or three times in an afternoon and come over and watch me, talk, interact the whole nine yards. Relationships like that seldom form now because the new players coming in dont know anything else. Many of the customers aproaching me for buffs just stand in front of me and say invite, or talki n third person about me, such as "can i get an invite to her group". They are conditioned that thats the way it is if you want mind buffs. It doesn't occur to them to say hello, could you give me a mind buff.
You say we should be trying harder, offering mind buffs talking to the customers more. When someone comes into the cantina and shouts once is anybody mind buffing from the other side of the cantina where i can't even see thier speech bubble I often miss it, and by the time it comes to my attention they are already gone and probably in the forums complaining how they couldnt find a live entertainer to buff them. Customers have a responsibility too, WALK UP to someone with the master tag, and ask them for a mind buff, send them a tell, they may not be able to notice you cause theres 10 afkers spamming tips and heals are apreciated.
You say that your getting screwed here, well people who play this game for interaction have been getting screwed for over a year now. So forgive me when i don't have any sympathy for the horrible and unending suffering that spending 20 minutes to go get your battle fatigue healed in coronet at 2 am is going to cause.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Drygo wrote:
Like Kreistor said, this has absolutely nothing to do with my ability to sell mind buffs. Try again.
Go to an adventure world.
Converse with the people who walk into the cantina, WHEN they walk in.
Offer buffs.
Actually agree to buff someone when they ask more-or-less politely for one.
If you need to be paid, ask for a specific payment amount.
If you want to get paid for your services, go to where your services are needed. Hint: That's not the Coronet cantina.
Hint: Buffbots should not be allowed to force me out of my venue of choice on any particular day.
Hint: I've been to adventure planets numerous times only to discover that there's a buffbot in residence there as well.
Hint: I converse with people all the time when they walk in.
Hint: I offer buffs all the time only to be passed up and ignored because the buffbot does them 23/7 for free and offers dual musician/dancer buffs.
Hint: I ALWAYS agree to buff people the few times that I'm asked these days.
Hint: I know what I'm talking about. I've lived it.
Point 'a' is completely correct. I pay $15 a month so I can enjoy a game, not so I can be your personal battle fatigue slave. So shoot me, I want to have fun.
Point b is only partially correct. Customers like you I have no interest in helping, because you place your own convenience over the welfare of three entire professions. We've been nothing but vocal about our plight, and while there are some who have supported us and continue to do so, there are many more who really don't care, or casually dismiss our opinions as inconsequential. Having said that, there are some wonderful people playing this game who do care about us, and for them, I will cross three worlds at my own cost to heal wounds or provide a buff. I will absolutely be there for them in any way I can be.
Paint me in any color you wish, this isn't about me and it isn't about you.
As the need for entertainment rises on the outer worlds, people will rise to meet the demand. Where there are credits available, there you will find people trying to earn them. The community will adapt just fine in time, wait and see.
Drygo wrote:
Hint: I offer buffs all the time only to be passed up and ignored because the buffbot does them 23/7 for free and offers dual musician/dancer buffs.
Thats a good point as well, and i have had this too many times. A customer will walk up and say can you do both buffs, whenI say noI dont even get a reply, just get to see thier back as they turn around and walk over to the buffbot.
One time a fellow came in and said if none of you entertainers can do the job the chick up front can do (referring to the resident buffbot) im not wasting my time and money on you.
picklesSW wrote:
As the need for entertainment rises on the outer worlds, people will rise to meet the demand. Where there are credits available, there you will find people trying to earn them. The community will adapt just fine in time, wait and see.
Dreamland wrote:
Drygo wrote:
Hint: I offer buffs all the time only to be passed up and ignored because the buffbot does them 23/7 for free and offers dual musician/dancer buffs.
Thats a good point as well, and i have had this too many times. A customer will walk up and say can you do both buffs, whenI say noI dont even get a reply, just get to see thier back as they turn around and walk over to the buffbot.
One time a fellow came in and said if none of you entertainers can do the job the chick up front can do (referring to the resident buffbot) im not wasting my time and money on you.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe all this time standing behind buff-bots and being frustrated by them will indeed give entertainers the kick in the ass they need tobeactive about doingtheir jobs. Then again, they're still the ones whose "best" solution to their woes is somehow to hack everyone else's game play instead of finding a way to simply better their own.