Dancer Archive
Thread: Our role has changed and now I feel useless
Kyree-Sunrunner wrote:
Why are you in the cantina with the spammy bots?
Get out and dance in the starports or other places where people frequent. People will stop and watch, some might even tip! I've made more tips dancing in front of the major starports, and had more fun chatting with passersby than I did the whole last 6 months in ANY cantina. I've been in several impromptu jams at starports. One guy on Starsider pulled out his Kaadu and made him dance with us! We had a blast. I got a 100k tip that night.
I am a dancer, not a street performer. I want a venue and for the customer to want to come to me; that is a primarymark of a professional dancers act.
However,Iwas willingand didtry being a street performer, before I retreated back to the Bestine Cantina, the result?I have been told repeatedly to "Get out of the starport your effects are making us lag." I have been insulted, and basically told to "move along". Was this by most people? Don't be silly of course not! But this has never happens in a cantina. Some of the streetplaces just get tospammy after you start dancing and guess what?Many people hate spam and a few of those just have to IM you that special message that makes you feel just soo good that your performance is not why they are going to or from the starport. A bot doesn't respond to annoying IM's ATK dancers get upset, very upset.
I am a master dancer and have been one since a couple months after launch. I have zero use for xp. I don't need to dance. What I want is simply what was LOST (meaning I already had it) from my game play. The ability to dance in a cantina that got customers, perferably not a lot, that I could chat with while they relaxed and the BF went away. Now it doesn't have to be BF, but BF was what facilitated the need for the customer to come see my act. Those were very fun times back after launch when that was all that we did. Slowly that has evolved out of the game to where it is gone now. The days of people searching me out for a performance or the new customer coming into the club, seem to be gone. Gone never to return.
Being a street performer is not my idea of fun. There are some vocal players that find street performers not fun either. That's ok, I didn't like being a street peformer to begin with and my imposing my act on peoplepassing by is just not what I like to do.
Message Edited by CandiDance on 07-29-2005 03:17 PM
Reachwind wrote:
I am not giving tips on being a better buff bot, I am giveing tips on being the most effective kind of character enhancer as proven through two years of game play. It is VERY constructive to those who strive for maximum effectiveness in the game's player based economy.
Even if you think you are being clever by saying that buffbots are the most effective way to be a Dancer, not seeking out social interaction as Kyree was suggesting, you still told her to be a buff bot. To make a point or literally, you still said it.
I also don't see how it's constructive at all, even those asking for more interdependency are really wanting it for social goaled purposes. You discredit all of the function minded Ents when you claim that they should start copying the non-social goaled players who see the end goal of Ent as providing enhancements only and bot it to skip our main social intention.
I don't think Ikewe wanted to be told to bot anymore than she wanted to be told to go play another prof when she started this thread. 
I don't think any real Ent on either side of this issue should ever be told that. Even if you are trying to make a point, it is a hurtful tactic.
Doriana wrote:
Funny though that those are the exact same tips that you would give to someone who wanted to be the most effective healer.
But you seem to conveniently overlook the fact that healing is susceptible to the same automation as enhancing, if not even more susceptible, which is what I don't understand. If the mechanics are as transparent for enhancing as for healing why does it matter what you call it?
*Entertainment* is the only thing we can give that bots can't. Mechanics, be they healing OR enhancement are all done "better" by a bot.
I'm glad you asked that, the difference between the healer and ehancer role is the type of person that comes looking for the service.
The audience that appreciates us most is the kind that enhancements are not designed for or used by. The casual player, the role player, the socializer... This type of player is not looking to be optimised for game play but would rather just play. Giving us a role such as healer makes us a prime need for this type of player and those who appreciate the enhancer role as well. A wider audience that has a the core group we want to be associating with definately involved.
I bought a second account specifically so I could create a dancer/CM on my home server of Radiant.
I saw her as someone I could role play with, and at the same time I could play with and support my guild in combat. Before hunts I could buff them up, during hunts I could keep them healed (using CM AND Dancer in the case of Kimo hunting - nasty mind disease), and after hunts I could heal them again. We made a happy rowdy group when we trooped into a cantina, and I still receive tells from random people I met there who enjoyed the byplay.Now however my dancer does a quick two minute boogie before hunts for the xp buff and that is the extent of her use of dancer skills for the guild. Since it takes such a small amount of time there is really no reason to go and hang in a cantina. My fun, and my enjoyment of my character comes from being and playing with my guild, and being useful to them, so playing in a cantina all the time (or starport or wherever) is not that appealing to me.
When the announcment came they were removing BF my guild chat was full of people attempting to confort me. One of them said they were sorry they were making dancer pointless. Now I don't necessarily think dancer is pointless now (I have enjoyed too many cantina crawls to ever think that
), but they do. That perception effects my interaction with my guild and my enjoyment of my character. If they see me as pointless I become deadweight in a group, along because I am a friend, but not a very useful one. I feel the increasing urge, and the gentle hints (and not so gentle - most are teenage boys after all 
), to drop dancer and pick up something that will contribute to the group experience. Or else go back to my combat oriented Paks and leave my dancer as a stay-at-home character.This is an urge that I think will be felt even more strongly by new players. All-ent guild are great. I know a bunch and they include some of the most fun and interesting people I've met in SWG. However, that route is not for everyone. Many new players will want to join diverse guilds, explore all the content, etc. If dancer represents a useful contributing member to any guild, this will be an option. If dancer represents 100+ skill points of fluff (fun for us, but fluff from a combat perspective), then it will not be as much of an option and they will be tempted to drop the profession in order to join in and contribute.
Then there is the question of gameplay and payoff. Crafting professions have an intricate gameplay, and a payoff in the form of an item that they can use and sell. Dancer too, has a very intricate gameplay (Looking at the laser light show thread I admit that I am awed by the intricasies and consider myself a total novice), but no tangible payoff. For many, entertaining itself is the payoff. But I venture to say this is not a wide audience. With a tangible payoff you will pull in a wider range of players. With a tangible payoff that cannot be AFK'd you will get a wider range of players that are actually there.
I personally feel a tangible payoff is very important, to gameplay satisfaction, to interaction with others players, and to building a broad player base. I want to make sure I state this reward/payoff/benefit/whatever does not have to be related to combat. I have played mostly combat characters and that is the way I think, but our guild has many crafters who are valued guild members (Our guild leader is an Architect in fact). The benefit to being a dancer does not in any way shape or form have to be combat-related (I personally would like it if it was, but it does not have to be!), it just has to be something that people will want. Something they are willing to spend skill points to get. Something that will give them a feeling of accomplishment and gain at the end of their game session.
Message Edited by Vorpaks on 07-29-2005 02:41 PM
I guess what I am trying to get at is to not just focus on the negatives of what occurs. We are getting attention, good or bad, we are getting more attention than there has been in the past.
I dance far less now than I used to, just an hour or so at the end of the day, unless there is a performance in the offing with Nebula.
I do more stuff with my other chars now, although Caer is still pretty useful in her Grievious or doing a bit of slicing.
Candidance, which server are you on? Should you be on Chim, send me a tell if you need help with space missions, these are meant to be done as a group.
Reachwind wrote:
I'm sorry, but do you even play SWG? You are going to honestly sit here and tell me you think that there are as many crafters as combatants?
Panthu wrote:
The crafting section of this game is as huge as combat and it tends to attract players who are either casual gamers, role players, or socializers - basically not power gamers.
Yes I play and no I didn't say that. Why can you not have a game design discussion with out making personal attacks?
I don't see any point in even addressing your post beyond that if you can't control yourself enough to speak to design and mechanics issues with out trying to use petty tactics to "win your side."
I see this both from a design perspective and as a personal issue. The first I will discuss with you, the second I will not.
Reachwind wrote:
Doriana wrote:
Funny though that those are the exact same tips that you would give to someone who wanted to be the most effective healer.
But you seem to conveniently overlook the fact that healing is susceptible to the same automation as enhancing, if not even more susceptible, which is what I don't understand. If the mechanics are as transparent for enhancing as for healing why does it matter what you call it?
*Entertainment* is the only thing we can give that bots can't. Mechanics, be they healing OR enhancement are all done "better" by a bot.
I'm glad you asked that, the difference between the healer and ehancer role is the type of person that comes looking for the service.
The audience that appreciates us most is the kind that enhancements are not designed for or used by. The casual player, the role player, the socializer... This type of player is not looking to be optimised for game play but would rather just play. Giving us a role such as healer makes us a prime need for this type of player and those who appreciate the enhancer role as well. A wider audience that has a the core group we want to be associating with definately involved.
/boggle
I dont' get it. combat people are in a hurry to get to their content and we have to convince them to stay and chat . While this is a fun and challenging pursuit, it inevitably contributes the most to botting because of the "I need it NOW" factor. You can SAY BF healing was a "post-combat" role but honestly we all know that 75%+ always did it first thing before they went out fighting, not when they were done and ready to log off, which is why even before mind buffs most of us would ask "So what're you gonna do today?" and not "what DID you do today?"
Crafting people aren't in a hurry because they don't have anywhere to go. Their content is in their storage droid and inventory, not out at some mission 2k from city limits. We could be focusing on doing things like asking for the public crafting stations (or even better some sort of crafting stations that are on par with or superior to personal crafting stations, though that might step on arch toes...) to be relocated to the cantina to encourage crafters to come in and stay and actually do their work while sitting talking to us, maybe even some sort of bank terminals for resource storage.. that sort of thing.
Why is this not a better alternative than catering to the combat person who has a group waiting for them and is in a hurry to get there?
I know a lot of combat people and I'm in one of the oldest and strongest PVP guilds on my server, so I know what they do when they're not out fighting. At least 60% of the combat people have a crafter alt as well, and that's a conservative estimate.
By and large, the crafters and the fighters we're debating over are the same people in different moods, so why can't we help them when they're on their "relaxed" character instead of their "in a hurry" character?
CandiDance wrote:
I am a master dancer and have been one since a couple months after launch. I have zero use for xp. I don't need to dance.
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
CandiDance wrote:I am a master dancer and have been one since a couple months after launch. I have zero use for xp. I don't need to dance.
Yep, Key Issue here... Those who are already Master, have no reason to dance.
and yet for some reason they're there, AFK in every cantina, hotel and starport on every server, 24 hours a day and 7 days a week.
/boggle again.
Doriana wrote:
By and large, the crafters and the fighters we're debating over are the same people in different moods, so why can't we help them when they're on their "relaxed" character instead of their "in a hurry" character?