Dancer Archive
Thread: Why is it important to force people to come to the Cantina?
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Drygo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:50 pm
#27
Alright.
I think that people are only taking parts of my post and automatically saying, "nuh uh, no way, no how." Yes, I did use holovids a lot in my examples, as something that I would personally like. But, I never said it had to be done that way. I think I've said "It doesn't have to be done that way" about 5 times in this thread alone, not to mention the other threads I've posted to when we've discussed issues like this. So, let's disregard holovids. Let's also disregard the notion that I'm trying to placate anyone. Let's try to open our minds and just pretend for a moment that I am actually trying to come up with ideas that I think are fun for me, that would add content for me, and that this is my only reasoning for putting forth these ideas.
Remember. We're playing pretend for a moment. I'm not going to use any examples of any ideas that I might have, even though I do have other ideas. But, I don't want this theoretical argument to be bogged down by people screaming at me because of the example I choose to use. So, please, open your minds for a second, and answer this one question:
If it were possible for an atk person to provide buffs in a manner that we don't currently have, that would have no effect whatsoever on the traffic of the Cantinas, would you be interested in doing something like that?
If the answer is yes, then maybe we can take a step back and start discussing fun, exciting options, tweak each other's ideas, and come up with something.
If the answer is no, then it's obvious that you don't want anything to change. That's your right. But, then my original question still stands, why? Why is it so important to preserve things as they are now? Why is it so important to not come up with ideas that might possibly even actually enhance our gameplay in the long run?
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:16 pm
#28
If it were possible for an atk person to provide buffs in a manner that we don't currently have, that would have no effect whatsoever on the traffic of the Cantinas, would you be interested in doing something like that?
If the answer is yes, then maybe we can take a step back and start discussing fun, exciting options, tweak each other's ideas, and come up with something.
Alright I'll try to stay on topic here and go with the flow.
I say Yes.
I do not see how buffing in a cantina nownecessarily "adds" to the cantina experience and currently I would say it mostly detracts from it with the buffbots and spamming or interfering in people's conversations or performance. If you can offer a suggestion that adds to the experience to being a dancer one way or another, especially that is fun to do, I'm all for it. Possibly even at the expense of other things on the list or in addition to things on our list.
Dreamland
Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:32 pm
#29
Tandava wrote:
4. A body of non-entertainer players have ALWAYS resented coming into the cantinas for forced healing. ALWAYS. From July 2003 on this has been an issue. Some players don't mind coming in to a cantina for the socializing, they will STILL come in to socialize no matter what changes and even if a holovid program is put in place because they put value onto socializing in person and the system does not warp their minds to refuse them that option. If people think we can gain respect in others eyes by making them do something they will resent...might want to ask around.
This point is the center of the debate to me. To support making it unnecesary to go to a cantina, you have to firmly believe that there is a player base that will continue to support the cantina and come there just for the sheer joy of it. Experience has convinced me otherwise. If there was such a base of players that supported the cantina experience to begin with we wouldn't have any problem with buffbots, they would be able to spam away offering their buffs and the people that are in it for the social aspect would be coming to the cantina and socialising anyway.
So where are these people? why do we have a problem if these staunch socialisers will come to the cantina anyway? In my opinion yes these people do exist, unfortunately they are in short supply, and after JTL the playerbase will probably shift further toward the twitch based fps action kids than it is now, agravating the porblem further.
If people don't have to do something the majority of them won't. Many people profess to love live entertainers and say they would gladly choose them over a buffbot now, so why aren't they? Some do, but the majority do not, simply because talk is cheap and convinence is king.
Make it unnecessary to go to the cantina and it will die. That is my opinion.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 10-01-2004 03:38 PM
Drygo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:41 pm
#30
I think I went about this completely the wrong way. I think I titled this thread incorrectly. And, I also still think most people are either ignoring what I'm trying to talk about completely, or they just don't understand what I'm trying to talk about. For, I have repeatedly said that I'm not advocating making the Cantina completely irrelevant. I have repeatedly given examples of things I think would, in fact, make the Cantina even more relevant, and pleasant, and wonderful. I have also repeatedly said the example of the holovid is not the end all and be all of my focus for discussion. And, I have also repeatedly said that this has much more to do with trying to enhance our gameplay as opposed to placating the general population.
I probably should never have used examples, and I probably should have never titled this thread the way I titled it. Because, quite simply, people aren't "getting" what I'm trying to say.
So, because I have no desire to argue with any of you because I generally like each and every one of you, I'm going to just bow out. This thread can be locked or deleted for all I care. Maybe I'll be able to come up with a better post or a better thread at some point in the future. But, this one has proven to me to have been incapable of staying on focus of what I really want to talk about. That's not necessarily anybody else's fault, it's mine for not being clearer.
Peace.
Dreamland
Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
#31
Oh i see what your saying just fine. I just disagree.
Even if cantinas still are useful i believe people will still vastly choose the method that is more convenient to them even if the benefit were outweighed by the cantina.
Dreamland
Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:52 pm
#32
Maybe radical solutions aren't realy what's necessary. The main complaintI see anti cantina advocates use is that it's inconvenient to them. I don't find the current battle fatigue system to be a problem, obviously some do, so maybe instead of just yanking it out, or putting in new ways to get healed without an entertainer, or remote systems to make entertainers able to reach the outposts without being there, how about just adjusting the system we do have.
This is something that has been done in game with other features, calling vehicles and droids in the wilderness, reducing shuttle wait times. Both of which were met with success.
How about something similar for entertainers, instead of removing our necesity why not tweak it to make it a bit less intrusive to those that seem to find it to be. Maybe make the rate at which battle fatigue accumulates happen a bit slower than it does now, increase the amount of entertainer healing xp given by it to compensate for the reduction in fatigue healing. So instead of it being necessary for player a to get his battle fatigue healed every2 hours he can get it done maybe every4 hours
As to buffing, i don't hold with the belief that anything should be done at all to increase the supply of buffs. The combat balance is coming and is intended to adress the mind imbalance directly. I DO advocate a serious improvement to the current buffing system to one thats more user friendly to both sides and preferably that doesn't interfere with performance, but holos that can be sold en masse are not the right solution to me.
The requirement to flourish madly to get the job done is one of the main issues to me, so i say remove it, move the time to give a successful buff to 5 minutes of simply watching the performer period no flourishing even neccesary. There is a chef food that suposedly reduces buff time for ents by its description this could further reduce that 5 minutes. Let setperform stack to multiple users up to a predetermined limit to eliminate the need to do group buffs, yet keep the group buff option to allow those that want to use it to do so.
Drygo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:01 pm
#33
Dreamland, I agree with everything you just posted. It doesn't have to be a major thing. Stacking /setperforms, and an all around general 5 minutes of watching regardless of flourishes would do wonders without ruining performance.
Aynianu
Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:16 pm
#34
Actually i think it does need to be something Major, aswell as totally getting rid of the way afk entertainers prevail currently. The proffession needs a lot more going for it, i like some of your idea's Drygo.
I also posted a while back that i thought entertainers should get a range of different buffs, rather than just one/two mind stats. Dont even need to be spectacular, just interesting and lasting fun.
Dreamland
Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:31 pm
#35
Aynianu wrote:
Actually i think it does need to be something Major, aswell as totally getting rid of the way afk entertainers prevail currently. The proffession needs a lot more going for it, i like some of your idea's Drygo.
I also posted a while back that i thought entertainers should get a range of different buffs, rather than just one/two mind stats. Dont even need to be spectacular, just interesting and lasting fun.
Sure the profession does need major additions, but lets face it we aren't going to get major additions in the very near future. What I proposed was something that could be a way to smooth over the transiton of the complete removal of unatended play in the entertainer profession in the here and now, and make no mistake I support the complete removal of unatended play in the scope of the entire game asap.
If we wait for major improvements to the entertainer profession before removing unatended playability it will be far to late in my opinion because there won't be anyone left interested in being an entertainer anymore.
Aynianu
Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:46 pm
#36
Your absolutely right on getting rid of AFK first, because if we dont push for this first then it will just never get done and we will be just placated with the improvements to the proffession without solving the core problems.
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