Dancer Archive
Thread: Are you not getting the tips that you deserve?
Sultrina wrote:
It's not flame bait it's the truth. Your customers are making it painfully clear to you that you are not entertaining or you would be making tips. Geeze listen to your customers they are your source of income.
My 'customers', at least most of them, are too busy drooling over whichever female is least dressed to notice good entertainment if it bit them in the butt.
- J
That's not an accusation at anyone, and in my opinion there's nothing inherently wrong with people who do that. It's playing off human nature targetted to the demographics of the game population. It's very shrewd.
All I'm saying is that I don't agree with the oversimplification of "good entertainer skills = financial reward" that a lot of people want to subscribe to. It's just more complicated in my opinion.
- J
Syzygy-Gorath wrote:
So...as a nonentertainer I'm curious. What do you guys and gals consider to be a "good" tip?
It's highly variable and depends on many factors.
1. As you said, is the entertainer doing a good job of entertaining, or just puncing buttons (or worse, not even doing that or sitting at keyboard but just being a bot)? More personal effort on the part of the entertainer generally deserves (and in my experience, gains you) a better tip.
2. How much money do you have? Obviously saying "you should always tip at least 5K" to someone whose sum total bank account is on the order of a few hundreds is not useful. The amount you give should be based on what you can afford. No dancer (with any integrity, at any rate) would expect you to render yourself incapable of subsisting by giving him/her a tip.
3. How much actual service was provided? Not just (1) entertainment, but here, I mean wounds and BF. I've heard some suggestions on this, ranging from 1 cr/BF or wound healed to several cr/per. The ratio is up to you but clearly if you had 400 BF and 200 wounds in each mind stat, you got more service in terms of healing than if you had 12 BF and 5 wounds. How strongly you weight (1) vs. (3) is going to depend entirely on the person. We had a guy last night in Keren who came in every so often and just healed up very small amounts of wounds but kept tipping us all 1,000 cr each time. I think he was running Imp or BH missions and making plenty, but even so we could see we were not getting much Ent Heal XP and so clearly not giving him any real stat benefit, but he kept tipping. Finally the one musician said, "You don't have to keep tipping." His answer was, "I keep coming back in here between missions because you guys are nice and put on a good show, and I am tipping for the entertainment, not the heals." I know other people who would not tip unless they were actually being healed. So it will depend on the person.
4. What is the likely cost/risk to the entertainer to be there healing/entertaining you? This is one people tend to forget. But for example, you can safely assume (most of the time) that an entertainer does not live on, say, yavin 4. I'm sure a few do, but not many. So you have to assume they came from a "starter" world (where they could actually live through walking from home to town, etc) such as Corellia or Naboo. What's the expense from a starter locale to get to where you are? If it's several thousands, then you should probably bump up your tip rate to account for that, realizing that the dancer has taken on a huge financial cost to be there entertaining, and didn't just wander in from 1008 m outside of Moenia or something. Now, I am NOT saying that each patron has to give the dancer the full trip cost individually. Clearly that would be ridiculous (as for the same cost you could just fly to a starter world yourself to be healed). But giving 100 cr in Moenia and 100 cr in Dantooine are totally different, because there is a sort of "inflation" that comes with the cost of flying to Dantooine. So you should take that into account.
This is all a long way of saying that the AMOUNT you tip depends on many factors, and because of that there is no good way to say, "You should always tip X." In my experience a 1.5-5K tip is actually quite generous. Sometimes I take in 1.5K for the whole NIGHT, from a dozen or more patrons... I'd guess the most common amount I get is about 500, and the average is probably around 250 (not counting all the zeros of people who don't tip at all).
C
Sultrina wrote:
It's not flame bait it's the truth. Your customers are making it painfully clear to you that you are not entertaining or you would be making tips. Geeze listen to your customers they are your source of income.
First of all, you don't know anything about *my* customers or *my* tips. Second you're trolling around using semantics and grammar as a facade. Finally, I can produce a lot of folks who will admit that they didn't tip an entertainer for some reason other than poor quality of service. You think free lunch doesn't apply here, guess again.
Breccia of Bria
Sultrina wrote:picklesSW,
I both agree and disagree with you on that. Your level of dancing skills has very little to do with your ability to make tips. Your ability to use the tools you have to put on a good show does. I am quite shure that even a customer that does respond well to /licks will quickly tire of it. However I am also quite shure that a performers apearance does influence the tips they recieve.
I didn't mean skills as in "Dancing Knowledge" or "Musician Healing". I meant what you meant, the ability to actually entertain. Sorry about the semantic confusion.
- J
"No, I did not and I am not. I wasn't talking about you, I don't know a thing about you. I was trying to point out that it's not always the best entertainers that make the best tips, so to judge someone's skill based solely on the tips they receive (or don't receive) is not fair."
I didn't judge anyone's skills as a dancer. My original post offered two reasons why someone wouldn't get tips... reason "a" OR reason "b". I completely agree that the best dancer could make next to nothing while talentless nobody can make a killing. It's about "location" as much as, or more than, skill. I've heard master dancers in Theed complain that they only get a few hundred here or there, and I can't help but laugh at them. Theed is not where the wealthy players will be hanging out for their healing. It's as simple as that!
Sultrina wrote:noreenf,
No I am trying to help you by pointing out that you do not deserve tips you earn them. If you blame the customers for not tiping then you have no controll. If you realize that you need to dazzle them to earn tips then you have some controll. You can produce all the people in the world that say they don't tip that doesn't mean you deserve tham. It also doesnt mean you can't make a good living as a dancer. I am not a troll and I resent the acusation just because I don't share the comon ideal that the world owes entertainers a living does not make me a troll.
I never stated or even implied that anyone, least of all myself, "deserves" tips without earning them. I never even touched on that subject. I believe my only point remotely close to that subject was that just because one doesn't tip a dancer, doesn't mean they do so because the tip wasn't "earned".
Again I think you're manipulating semantics to be caustic, but thats just my own opinion and you and I are both certainly entitled to those opinions.
Breccia of Bria
Master Dancer
noreenf,
No I am trying to help you by pointing out that you do not deserve tips you earn them. If you blame the customers for not tiping then you have no controll. If you realize that you need to dazzle them to earn tips then you have some controll. You can produce all the people in the world that say they don't tip that doesn't mean you deserve tham. It also doesnt mean you can't make a good living as a dancer. I am not a troll and I resent the acusation just because I don't share the comon ideal that the world owes entertainers a living does not make me a troll.
picklesSW,
I both agree and disagree with you on that. Your level of dancing skills has very little to do with your ability to make tips. Your ability to use the tools you have to put on a good show does. I am quite shure that even a customer that does respond well to /licks will quickly tire of it. However I am also quite shure that a performers apearance does influence the tips they recieve.
Sultrina,
you remind me this poster who came once on the boardwith the same kind of stuff : " if you don't earn credits your skill must suck" because this same person was earning good tip ( and the way he or him earned it was by doing lapdance for 4K, he or him had a team of minions following her/him and so on .. wowow amazing skills )
At novice entertainer beside a friendly chat andgentle manners, please tell me which " tool " I had to use to make poeple tip ?
Past novice dancer, more options are available to provide a better show, the friendly chat and gentle manners still apply, I moved all over the galaxy from Wayfar to Yavin 4 ouposts but it doesn't seems to really improve the income ( well,at least mine )
Now, I am a master dancer ( the 100% mind buff was not live at this time ) , I still be a friendly chatter and care about the people I heal and it's not better BUT at this point I stock pilled all the credits I got by joining hunting group so I didnt care about the amount of credits per tip but by the tip gesture itself ( even 100 credits ).
I got the " wow effect " from some of my customers ( switching outfit during a visual effect in conjonction with the appropriate dancer move for example ), I also healed people when they were screaming for an entertainer and none but me was here.
Of course, I never used the /wink, /lick, I don't have an oversized breast , I didn't over flirting nor I used a fleshwrap, a leatardor too much revealing clothes ( by the way about clothes, I can say that I bested a lot of dancers who were stuck in fleshwrap or hot pants since novice entertainers ....).
Gods below ! you have NO right to tell me that I didn't deserved more consideration !
I'm sincerly glad that you can make your life as a dancer but keep this " you get the tip you deserve" for the day you have nothing to say because otherwise all your posts and advices are great and helpfull for the community !
< pause >
I loved to be a dancer even in my darkest days of bitterness, I was a dancer since day one, I did it without macro, I was probably a dancer before most of the people who post here nowdays, I've read TON of posts about this matter from both the entertainers and customers side and trust me :an entertainerwho doesnt get the tip he/she deserves ( when he/she works for it ) is because most of the people dont understand why they shoud tip and are cheap with their money !
<breath >
I'm sure noone here remember FlawlessDiamond and I right ?