Dancer Archive

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Ikewe wrote:

But I think there's a lot of potential for this class that's long been over-looked simply because we have limited our imaginations as to how to make the entertainer professions more desireable.

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/nod

Fuschia, what are you frustrated with? Palacek isn't claiming we aren't useful in combat, he simply doesn't think we should have true combat abilities. (Nothing that would take away from Combat Medics, Squad Leaders, etc.)

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Panthu wrote:

1. Dance and Performance Enhancements - Everybody knows what these are. We all want them.


2. Social based enhancements - Things for events and parties


3. Entertainer based gameplay - Pretty PvE (Ent Missions, Fame, so on, gamey stuff where you get to be an Entertainer)


4. Interactive Functional Role - This is where the Active Buffs, Active Heals, and other Active abilities fit in
   
   
   

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I have a problem with number 4. It guts the entire game I have known since launch if we make it active. And it turns it into a situation where I won't be able to play it. I can play a passive game. I cannot play a game where I have to sell "/" commands.

I am in no position to start selling active mechanics. I am not a power player. I am a slow leveler. I am not guilded, and I'd like to stay that way. If what we do becomes an active selling of mechanics, and if entertainer A and entertainer B can seperate themselves in terms of a quantifiable difference in effect, then I'm sunk. I simply won't be able to afford the loot, or be as efficient at it. I know my limitations, and I am not a banker. I am an improvisational performer.

I don't like doing RP parties for the same old crowd. I don't like doing quests. I like the excitement of the cantina game, like I had at launch.

Passivity allows individuals to judge me on completely different criteria than how much I can mechanically benefit them. It allows someone like me a chance to make a good living simply being funny, or amusing, or in-character. That's the thing I love right now in the profession. Gut passivity, and wI'm afraid that we make this class like a contrived variation on medic.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-08-2005 07:24 PM

For my own part, I'm quite happy with BF and mind wound healing. It comes after the mission, not before, and combatants don't need it as frequently, so it gives us our interdependence without unduly burdening them. And I do occasionally get tipped for it.

I wouldn't personally be interested in a spy or information-broker role, but I'd cheerfully support the option for those who are. My only concern is that it would be another thing the combatant has to come to an entertainer for before the mission, and thus might result in the same impatience and hostility we get now.

I don't care so much for the "battle-bard" idea, because it's immersion-breaking. Those soldiers in the Bradleys are listening to tape; they don't have a bloody Drum & Bugle Corps along. But then, there isn't any Star Wars immersion in this game anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.


J.

Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera

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As far as immersion and music with combat.. Personaly I think every time Darth Vader starts walking some where and hears that Imperial March... Ya know I think it really gets him pumped up to go hunt down some rebel scum. Indian Jones the middle of a big fight... and there comes the music.. Ohh ya that really turns the battle in his favour. I sure wish I had my own theme music for doing every day things. It would make it a lot more interesting.

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Schardour wrote:

Again, I'd rather move away from the active pre-combat buffing, but I don't think other active interaction has to be terribly harmful to your ability to perform and amuse.

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Let me give you an example from our game today.

There are two dancers. Master Dancer A takes his or her job seriously. Greetings are made at the door, songs are sung, patrons are made to feel welcome, and the dances, costumes, and ambiance is very much in the spirit of being an entertainer. He or she can buff at the standard 100%.

Then there is Master Dancer B. Someone who simply talks in /guild all day, lets her macro do the performing, looks like a rummage sale due to all her mismatched articles, creates boring spam, plays the same music or the same dance she has always done for two months straight, but has attachments that equal +125%.

Now tell me, which entertainer would we like the system to reward? Master A? Or Master B? Who is the better entertainer?

Activemechanics ensure Master B is rewarded. Because she has the mechanical advantage, and can control who she gives it to, she can force tips for her boring, albeit mechanically superior, performance. The Active application of her skills makes the game not about "entertaining" the players, but makes it about getting loot and "getting a return on their investment."

Passive mechanics however ensure Master A is the one rewarded. Because neither Master A nor Master B has any control over who can or cannot receive the mechanics, unless Master B is doing a good job at entertaining, patrons will simply /watch her, and actually watch Master A.

I am Master A. I can still make a living doing the passive functions. I actually made a very good living as a novice entertainer by playing under the passivity system. And its because the system promotes and facilitates the things I thought this class was designed to promote.

If dancers want a "return on their investment," I recommendwe become merchants, and keep our hands out of my purse. I have no problem with passivity. I have a problem with AFKers, and live players that for all intents and purposes mimic AFKers.

Or maybe that's whatwe want, isn't it? A system that rewards gabbing in /groupchat, being indifferent, and creating a boring atmosphere for the patrons. If that's the case, why not keep what we have right now with buffing alts and AFKers? It facilitates exactly that sort of atmosphere.

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PoetDancer wrote:

Who is the better entertainer?

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Message Edited by Drygo on 03-08-2005 05:45 PM

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-08-2005 07:45 PM

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-08-2005 08:57 PM

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Schardour wrote:

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PoetDancer wrote:

Who is the better entertainer?

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I'm sure you know that question is far to subjective for any one person to answer.

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At one time it was subjective. In the time of passive mechanics. That was the time when players could come into the cantina and if they liked what they saw, they tipped it.

Now however, we have objective criteria to determine who is the better entertainer. And you know who the best entertainer in the game is, by all objective measures? The buffbot Briha, who can give +125% music and dance buffs 24/7.

If that makes you ill to read that Til, It only proves my point. The problem with messing with the potency and active dispensing of the mechanics is that it makes the measure of a good entertainment experience resemble a good carbine. Its a calculation based upon price, supply, demand, and certain quantifiable notions of quality that can be objectively measured.

Who do we want to champion as the "best entertainers?" The ones who can sell a bunch of statistics like a used Swoop salesman? Well turn our mechanics into a saleable commodity and you'll have it, just like we have now.

But if we make our mechanics something that players don't have to tip up front to get, then they'll be free to tip because they want to do it. They will because they'd rather see players like myself, Til, Drygo, and Panthu doing these things, rather than some boor.

These patrons are not the animals we make them out to be. They are just very hard-pressed to care about such things today. Who can blame them? The cantinas resemble a commodities exchange 15 minutes before close.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-08-2005 08:09 PM

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PoetDancer wrote:

IBut what real difference is there between two or more "playstyles?" I'll tell you.

Social entertainers fill the time between /startwatch and /stopwatch with something amusing.

Healing entertainers fill the time between /startwatch and /stopwatch with nothing.

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WOAH! I must be misunderstanding your definition of a healing entertainer. I consider myself to be a healing entertainer and I can assure you that from the moment I type /startdance to the moment I type /stopdance I try to fill the time with something amusing or entertaining. Although I've become convinced that my performance probably sucks compared to yours I try my hardest to be a good performer as well as a good healer. I like that role. I think I'm good at it and I want to sell it. I worked hard to get the SEA attachments that I have and I made an effort to put them into clothing that doesn't look like my closet exploded onto me in some random jumble. But I can tell you that not one single person asks what my buff percentage is so unless I know the person might really need that extra 10% that I can provide with my "outfit" then I just dance in whatever feels comfortable or suits my mood. I don't want players to simply take that in a completely passive manner because if I'm standing next to you then I'm probably going to losea part of the profession that I like.

cheers,

Ikewe, Shadowfire

I entertain, that is my primary focus when I'm being a musician. That doesn't stop me from also doing buffs that require my interaction. I work hard to get flourish combinations and instruments that sound the best for the various songs I have at my disposal. I write words to go with some flourish combinations, I make western sound western, techno, and pirate/carribean themed, I make waltz sound lilting or soulful, I make jazz sound like jazz. I can still do every bit of that and proactively involve my self in administering a buff.

The first time people see me performing and ask if I can buff they often comment on how nice it is to hear a different song or one done to actually sound like a song and not the same flourish spammed endlessly. Many of these people will return to me for repeat business. I don't have to stop performing to meet their needs, I simply have to perform some different sequences that get them finished as quickly as possible. I don't object to healing being passive but I totally disagree that active involvement makes a buff bot the better performer. The ability to AFK 24/7 does that and nothing you can do will fix that. Even if your buffing was 100% passive the fact that you are actually playing the game and aren't always in the exact same spot and always available will still make the buff bot preferred. They win due to being an absolutely known quantity not to the fact that they have to join a group to apply a buff. Your battle needs to be with that very unrealistic NPC like availability not with the fact that you want to depend on people deciding to tip you versus controlling the despensing of those services.

You still sell slash commands Sirii, even today, even back in the all passive days. The difference was the way in which you organized the /flourish commands over someone else and it still is that same situation. The difference, assuming AFK is removed, is that you can control the exchange of funds for services with one method and can't with the other. An NPC is like a 7/11 always open, people don't go to 7/11 because they are cheaper but because they know that no matter when they go there they can get the items they want and get them quickly. People don't tend to get brand concious with convenience markets the way they do grocery stores; they all have the same basic items on sale for similar prices so they simply go to the one nearest them at the moment. An ATK performer is like a small mom and pop country store, it isn't open every minute and it is sometimes closed at unexpected times because of situations in the owners life. Until we can remove the convenience stores and the mentality that surrounds them no change will make us viable.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 03-09-2005 01:06 AM