Dancer Archive

I would very much like they rather fixed the broken things before even considering adding anything else and risking even more things “not working as intended”.

Personally, I do like to buff, I know I have said it before but, in a way it does make me feel as a part of the overall picture if I can buff someone.
I don’t want to be a social butterfly, I want to feel part of the game. Instead of taking things away from us, why not just keep on fighting for things to be fixed and added. (in that order lol)

The Battle-Bard idea… hmm.. No, thank you. I already have one of those in EQ2 and love to play her very much, but I see no point of playing two games with a same class.
In my opinion Entertainer and Bard is not the same thing. Bards do not entertain.
Their job is to get the troops in to a pitch of battle-furry. That is definitely not what I imagine SWG themed entertainers should do.

I have nothing against the mini-games idea but only if it’s an addition, not a replacement. If I want to play a mini-games only, I don’t see a point of logging all the way in to SWG, but may as well play at any of many free mini-game sites.

Seriously I don’t understand why it has to be give-and-take scenario. Why can’t our class just be fixed and things added to make it more diverse?
So that way lot more people would enjoy playing it because it would be more pleasing to many more gaming styles.

If you have an infected splinter in your finger, would you rather cut off the whole arm to make sure the splinter is gone or would you rather remove the splinter and try to heal the wound first?
Sorry, but that’s what this reminds me of…..

Deli’ah

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Petronela wrote:
I would very much like they rather fixed the broken things before even considering adding anything else and risking even more things “not working as intended”.

Personally, I do like to buff, I know I have said it before but, in a way it does make me feel as a part of the overall picture if I can buff someone.
I don’t want to be a social butterfly, I want to feel part of the game. Instead of taking things away from us, why not just keep on fighting for things to be fixed and added. (in that order lol)

The Battle-Bard idea… hmm.. No, thank you. I already have one of those in EQ2 and love to play her very much, but I see no point of playing two games with a same class.
In my opinion Entertainer and Bard is not the same thing. Bards do not entertain.
Their job is to get the troops in to a pitch of battle-furry. That is definitely not what I imagine SWG themed entertainers should do.

I have nothing against the mini-games idea but only if it’s an addition, not a replacement. If I want to play a mini-games only, I don’t see a point of logging all the way in to SWG, but may as well play at any of many free mini-game sites.

Seriously I don’t understand why it has to be give-and-take scenario. Why can’t our class just be fixed and things added to make it more diverse?
So that way lot more people would enjoy playing it because it would be more pleasing to many more gaming styles.

If you have an infected splinter in your finger, would you rather cut off the whole arm to make sure the splinter is gone or would you rather remove the splinter and try to heal the wound first?
Sorry, but that’s what this reminds me of…..

Deli’ah

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In the sense of EQ and EQ2, Bards are primarily for combat, just as you described.

However, in the classic D&D sense, SWG Entertainers and the ideas being bandied about for Information Brokers are actually charateristics of the D&D Bard. These kinds of Bards do in fact entertain, and that is how they supplement their adventuring. They sit down and tell stories, dance, sing, and play music. They also live and breathe in Taverns, where they learn new tales, songs, and dances while they gather information.

Yeah, I know, you said Battle-Bards. I personally don't want to be a Battle Bard myself. I do feel that currently Entertainers are already alot like the classical D&D Bard. So, in a sense, we already are Bards, just not in the typical MMORPG sense.

Message Edited by Schardour on 03-08-2005 01:45 PM

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Schardour wrote:

I'll repeat what I said in the other thread....

Not every word spoken here is selfish, but rarely do I see mention of balance or game direction on these forums. Our focus on unattended play is profession-centric, our requests for buffing power takes little into account the restrictions it places on the rest of the community, and our visions of the future of the profession are oftentailored only to the playstyle which we enjoy most as an individual.As these professions attract a variety of players (seeking both social and support venues), acertain balanceneeds to be reached when designing our role within the game and the functionality we are given. Because this is what our development team understands. They understand BALANCE, and FAIRNESS. The developers want to make combat faster, simpler, and more interactive. How do we fit into that role? Why would we want to ask for an ability that flies in the face of what's great for other players? Why would we ask for an ability that slows a combatant from entering their world? They'll have time for our world if they're able to enjoy it. If we're simply another necessary step to take before going to hunt, or defending their base...if we're simply another necessarytime- and money-sink...then they're not going to enjoy our world. And this is what we're seeking: An overall enjoyment of the game.

(This was not in response to Rayill )

Message Edited by Schardour on 03-08-2005 01:45 PM

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Schardour wrote:

Is there any other game out there that requires this? Multiple profession providing different, but equally importanttime-based buffs?

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Not for all successful or "uber" encounters, no. Other games do however have many buffing and healing classes that would be useful pre-encounter, during encounter, or post encounter though.

My personal priorities are:

1. Dance and Performance Enhancements - Everybody knows what these are. We all want them.


2. Social based enhancements - Things for events and parties


3. Entertainer based gameplay - Pretty PvE (Ent Missions, Fame, so on, gamey stuff where you get to be an Entertainer)


4. Interactive Functional Role - This is where the Active Buffs, Active Heals, and other Active abilities fit in

I just don't think we can leave off number four. I don't really see any reason to. An Entertainer can choose to skip these functional elements just like some Dancers choose to skip Buffing and BF/MW Healing now or some IDs won't do Stat Migrations. We have to have something that ties us to the rest of the game... otherwise, we are at great risk of being skipped entirely by the majority of the player base. Beyond that, it's just poor RPG design to have a profession with no built in interdependence.

Even crafters have to relate to thenon-crafting game, and they are the original non-Combat professions. It is strange to assume that we could somehow cut ourselves off from the rest of the game entirely. In fact, I don't think most of us would even want that. However, the ability to choose would be nice. So it would be cool if these functional things could stay in one skillline.Another line could deal with Ent Only gameplay, like Deila's Fame proposal. The other two lines could be bulked up with art and social tools we have been talking about forever.

As far as how to work in any additional functionality or GCW inclusion, I personally would vote Spy or Informant over Bard. Although, I do think Bard gets a bum rap from most people... if you like buffs coming from performers, that's an idea rooted in bardom. Really, it's just a name thing the real break down for us seems to fall to those who think we should be totally passive and only in the cantinas, those who think we should be at least partially active but only in the cantinas, and those who think we should be at least partially active and allowed to have some abilities outside of the cantinas.

Apparently my comment on entertainers on the battlefield has been greatly misunderstood. I'm not talking about pre-combat or post-combat abilities, which include mind wound healing and buffing. I'm talking about at the actual fight, while an enemy and an ally are busy shooting at each other. And as for the medics - I really didn't think I'd have to mention them, but oh well, I was wrong.

What's an entertainer gonna do? Is he/she gonna distract the enemy? Seriously, the enemy is a trained fighter and shouldn't be affected by whatever trick you're trying to pull. Maybe you get naked and start gyrating in front of the enemy. If that's the case, and the enemy forgets to do a special or heal, then fine, you've done your job. How about the "bard" role? I feel that bard-like abilities should go to squad leaders. Unless the developers state otherwise, I think all the combat-related stuff should stay with the combat-centered professions. It's fine with me if you sing a song and it has a positive psychological affect on your allies, but the effect shouldn't go beyond that.
Summary: I don't think there should be an in-game mechanic to actually make an entertainer able to negatively affect the enemy or to positively affect an ally while they are actually dukin' it out. But as always, that's just my personal opinion. If you entertainers seriously think that this kind of combat role is part of your profession, then so be it. It just really doesn't make sense to me.

= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek