Dancer Archive

Thread: Suggestions for that now pointless skill tree Entertainer Wound Healing

Melpomyne
Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:57 pm
#27

I think one of the reaons ppl want to get the skill points back is that to master dancer is a disproportionate amount of skill points required compared to other professions. We are a support profession and all love what we do (I hope!) but the point cost is just way too high. I don't advocate combining the professions personally, but it is an option. However, I don't necessary think that they should just rip out a branch and not do anything with it.


I quite like the idea of a quest based branch, but on the condition that it doesn't cost xp or skill points, like in JTL. It only costs quests. Once the quest is done, you get the box. This would not only reduce the large expense of skill points for dancer but also tie in quests rather than just 'grinding' as some put it (but please how is dancing in the streets of Theed at sunset grinding? but i digress...) The formationsidea is a nice one and a coveted one, just not practical - a wonderful idea - but not practical, as the cost of putting that in game would be too high. We need to ensure our requests are reasonable and asking for a huge amount of re-programming of graphics after already being given a few new dances recently is well... a little to ambitious


Just back to the skill point cost thing again, remember that a great deal of our functionality in the game has been removed, and thus the expense of the profession should be loweredto reflect this.





"If you're up there... save me Superman!" H.Simpson
~I support ATK players~
Chessack
Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:57 pm
#28

The problem with the quests, at least as they have them now, is that they are still a grind. Instead of grinding XP you are grinding "people watching you." It's silly to the absurd. My character is in a band. She might have 20 people watching her band's performance. But if they don't specifically target and listen to HER, she doesn't get credit. So now I have to break character every few minutes and ask people to specifically watch me so I can "get credit" for it.

This is a clunky, pathetic system. There has GOT to be a better way. If they don't want people AFKing it, fine. Put in some sort of box, "X is watching you and your band. Do you wish his observation to count toward your quest? Yes/No." 30 second timer. If you don't click yes, it doesn't count. End of potential exploit... and this solves the problem of people ACTUALLY being watched in a performance but not getting credit for it.

It took me like 3 months to get the dancer quests done because I refuse to break character incessantly to ask people to specifically listen to me when they are already listening to the band (or watch when they are already /watching the band). If I can get healing XP credit when I am grouped and they watch someone next to me, then I should get quest credit too. And I should not be practically FORCED to break character to complete a quest. Yes I know there is not much "RP" in this so-called roleplaying game but let's not force people to break character to do their profession shall we?

I am not on board with any further quest-based content until they make a better quest system. If they do make a better system, only then I would consider changing my position.

C



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Dejah Thoris
Dancer, Musician, Image Designer
Kor Spera, Corellia, Naritus
Melpomyne
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:32 pm
#29

We have the two branches in the ent tree and then the 4 in the novice tree. Most profs only require 1 branch in the first tree. Despite this, if our functionality is reduced (no more wound healing), so should our skill point cost regardless of any current comparison or prospective changes (eg. combat profs being made more expensive skill point wise in the CU). Unless they give us a new function, then the wound healing tree should not cost skill points imo.



"If you're up there... save me Superman!" H.Simpson
~I support ATK players~
Esharra
Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:17 pm
#30

There's some really great discussion going on here. I'm starting a poll in another thread to get a better overview of opinions on Skill Point Investment. Please participate. Thanks!



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Sunjammer
Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:35 pm
#31



Melpomyne wrote:
We have the two branches in the ent tree and then the 4 in the novice tree. Most profs only require 1 branch in the first tree. Despite this, if our functionality is reduced (no more wound healing), so should our skill point cost regardless of any current comparison or prospective changes (eg. combat profs being made more expensive skill point wise in the CU). Unless they give us a new function, then the wound healing tree should not cost skill points imo.




Okay, so now we're back to "we should cost fewer skill points because we're less functional," which I'm still wholly opposed to. Especially since -- if I understand correctly -- most of the elite combat profs will require two novice tracks after the CU.


Umi
Isleh
Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:11 pm
#32






Sunjammer wrote:




Melpomyne wrote:

I think one of the reaons ppl want to get the skill points back is that to master dancer is a disproportionate amount of skill points required compared to other professions. We are a support profession and all love what we do (I hope!) but the point cost is just way too high.




I didn't know that. Sure, if Master Dancer does require more skill points than, say, Master Rifleman or Master Tailor, I wouldn't mind seeing them shave a few off until they're equal.


Umi.




From novice to master, Dancer and Musician cost 106 skill points. We areamong the top 10 professions to master skill point wise. Right along with Master Creature Handler. Most ofthe elite combat professions cost 92 skillpoints along with almost all the crafting professions.


After the combat revamp, then the elite combat professions will cost THE SAME as mastering Dancer and Muscian unless they adjust the cost of the entertainer professions.


In response to most of the complaints regarding this new cost for the combat professions, I will quote a my friend Ekade.


"Welcome to my world"




Isleh
Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:39 pm
#33






We are a social profession but we want game mechanics as well.


As far as functionality, you can say that the combat profession only has one. Dealing out damage. The big differance is that they have and can make different choices that effects the outcome. For entertainers, Flourish 1-8, Bandflourish 1-8, Exotic4, Tumble2, Basic,etc., etc. makes very little differance as to the outcome of what we do game mechanics wise. What has been done to the entertainer professions is the same as replacing all the specials in TKA with unarmedhit1.


There is really no way to quantify the social aspect of our profession and that is where the devs are having a problem I think. Basing our profession on a combat profession is a mistake. In essance, we would be fighting and competingamungnstourselves for the audiance. Not an atmosphere condusive to a friendly gathering. So, base our profession on a crafting profession to help the devs have a model to work from.


Deep within the recesses of this forum, someone mentioned recordings. Creating holo disks the a consumer could play later and receive our services.


SO....


Buffingholo disks for Musician and Dancer withthe Dancer and Musician wound healing tree replaced with the ability to create buffing holo disks. These buff disksgive short term buffs. Dancers and Musicians still have the mythical long term minor buffs that must be given by a live performance.


BF mitigationdisks for entertainers.The Entertainer Wound healing tree replaced with the ability to create better BF mitigation disks. This disks do not heal BF, rather they lessen the effects of BF while 'playing'. People still need to go to the cantina to get BF healed.


Artisans can get a schematic to create blank disks and another schematic to create a recording device.


Here's the fun part. Groups and bands and collobrate and get better results creating holo disks than just one person.


Skill tapes and such that deal with wound healing can be converted over to make better holo disk recordings

Message Edited by Isleh on 04-03-2005 10:52 PM

Panthu
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:42 am
#34






Isleh wrote:






Artisans can get a schematic to create blank disks and another schematic to create a recording device.


Here's the fun part. Groups and bands and collobrate and get better results creating holo disks than just one person.


Skill tapes and such that deal with wound healing can be converted over to make better holo disk recordings





Holo recordings are a neat idea for both functional and RP play. I think they could really be done in a cool way and maybe even tie into a "fame" type of ranking that Ents keep bringing up.


The only challenge there is making sure that they stay Performance/Social based, but I think making them multi-Ent enhanced and recordable only in the Cantinas or Theaters like you are suggesting would go a long way in securing that.




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Isleh
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:44 am
#35

The BF mitigationdisks are the solution to the "I play at odd hours" argumument as well. It appeals to the buff bot customer far better than the buff bot ( or the BF Bot after the upgrade ). They can then swing by a cantina at their leisure. Going with the theme of the new Inspiration Buffs, Novice Entertainer recordings are just as effective as a Master's. Master's just 'play' longer.


Short term Inspiration Buffs ( now that I know what the buffs will be )... could work for crafters creating schematics. I wonder ifthey willeffect slicing?


Sunjammer
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:33 am
#36

For those who want entertainers to have a greater role in the GCW, perhaps the fourth track could be for some kind of charm skill for eliciting quest information out of NPCs. Or something to do with spying or espionage. I know some people have said they would be interested in such a role.


Umi
Isleh
Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:20 am
#37






Sunjammer wrote:
For those who want entertainers to have a greater role in the GCW, perhaps the fourth track could be for some kind of charm skill for eliciting quest information out of NPCs. Or something to do with spying or espionage. I know some people have said they would be interested in such a role.


Umi






I know. I've suggested something like that as well a while back... somewhere.


The devs have already decided, haven't they? Anything suggested here can no way be implimented in time, can it? Just like the buffs were plopped down on us today, in a few days we'll see their solution for this problem, won't we?

Isleh
Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:58 pm
#38







Sunjammer wrote:



Isleh wrote: I know. I've suggested something like that as well a while back... somewhere. The devs have already decided, haven't they? Anything suggested here can no way be implimented in time, can it? Just like the buffs were plopped down on us today, in a few days we'll see their solution for this problem, won't we?



We're talking about the Wound Healing track. Buffs fall under Techniques. As far as I know, the devs have not made any decisions about the Wound Healing track. which governs only the now-defunct mind wound healing skill. Unless you know something I dont....? The idea of this thread is to find a new use for that now-empty track. It doesn't look like it will be the new buffs; nothing in the doc says they're moving it to a different track, and they've been touted as a replacement for mind buffs, not mind wound healing.


Nothing says it has to be ready in time for the CU. Although it would be nice if they didn't take a year to get around to it, either. Umi







I know... I started this thread.


It's just that the Devs already know, or have a good idea what they will or will not have ready for us in time for the CU.


A couple of points.



  • When they decided to remove the mind wounds and eliminate that skill tree, it would be hard to not know that this would be an issue.

  • Some of the ideas have been floating around this community for more than a year.

  • Some have been exhaustively detailed.

So



  • They had material, plenty of it in fact to draw a conclusion of what this community is looking for.

  • They would have to be comatose to not see this problem coming.

  • They would have to be brain-dead not to have a plan to deal with the fallout.

You don't operate a business that way. Especially with a customer base this large and a major movie just around the corner that is going to drive more customers to you.


Is that going to stop me from making suggestions? No, but this community can make better suggestions and provide better feedback if we knew what they will or will notbe ready for us when the CU goes live. Right now, we're groping around in the dark.


That said


What about Ranger camps, Scout camps?


Espionage was mentioned and Mata Hari is the classic example of the entertainer turned spy (even though she wasn't very good at it).


Any ideas to expand beyond the cantina?


Any Ideas to add skills to differentiate between Musician and Dancer?


A friend of mine is a Master Fencer and Master Dancer. She calls herself a blade dancer. One can argue that the physical requirements of being a dancer is as strenuous as a martial art. A skill tree having an effect on Combat abilities? The ability to dodge gracefully?


Another friend of mine is a Master Musician and Master Smuggler. A skill tree having an effect on public relations? Oration/Public Speaking that may have an effect on how NPCs react?


[ The idea is to create 2 individual professions. One that would appeal to the Entertainer/Combatgroup and one that would appeal to the Entertainer/Non-Combat group. It can go either way, I just see the Dancer as the more physicialy active sterotype. ]

Message Edited by Isleh on 04-04-2005 04:15 PM

GoGoGirl
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:27 pm
#39

Since the CU is going to affectmy abilityto defend myself. I wouldn't mind having some sort of coercion ability to seduce/persuade off any NPC humanoid agro which is similiar to the Scout/Ranger mask scent/camoflage against creatures.


Or give us some sort of ability that would be playful like espionage skills which we can entice named NPCs into giving out special quests for other classes?



Eva'ngelene AverLace
The Prancing Chef of Mos Eisley
Master Dancer / Master Chef
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