Dancer Archive
Thread: New List, take a look please
Falling down
My theory:This is your Dance Knowledge skill value done against a dance difficulty value for each dance. You fall if you roll the dice and you fail. If your skill is high enough, it is impossible to fall. This is why master dancers don't fall onanything below lyrical. Want to fall less? Get clothes with dancing knowledge enhancements.
Mind-buffing self.
Do you see people "abusing" doctor to get self-doc buffs? No, didn't think so... I wouldn't worry about this problem. If people do spend the skill points to get the buff, they aren't misusing the class at all. They've spent the points, let them have the enhancement.
My top 5 remains
1. Fix jitter in formal, formal2, Lyrical,Lyrical2, Popular and Rhythmic2
2. Finish motion cap flourishes and continue project (being shure to KEEP some transitional flourihses in each dance) I do not want8 unuiqe flourishes per dance I want 6 and 2 transitionals per dance.
3. I want my "mirror" option it should be a toggle and it should aply to all base dances and flourishes.
4. Fix bleed through on clothes, as it stands the nicer the gown the worse the problem is.
5. Establish a policy of anyone AFK longer then 15 min and performing actions, no matter the action (afk camping swoops comes to mind). Will be warned then suspended and finaly banned. Then ENFORCE this policy it is a simple thing to send a tell. "This is CSR-Banju you have 15min to reply to this tell or you will be suspended" Again this doesn't mean your AFK just siting there or even base dancing because you got called away because you kid hurt himself. This has worked in other games it can work here.n
Yajedi wrote:
Objections to AFK:
1. Just because other classes are broke as well (ie they can AFK stuff) does not mean that it's okay for our class to be broke.
Not an objection; ignored.
2. One single AFK Master Dancer is all the entertainment an entire town needs in a cantina. Everyone watches this person because they are the fastest healing to be found. You know you are getting master-level healing with this person, afk or not.
Same holds true for ATK dancers. A single ATK Master Dancer is all the entertainment is all an entire town needs in a cantina. Everyone can watch this one person because s/he is the fastest healing to be found. No real difference between ATK and AFK here, so what's the problem exactly?
3. The current grind needed by dancing is so long that most people feel forced into afk dancing.
Forced? Nah. Beneficial to do? Sure. But that's a problem with the grind, not with AFK.
4. The idiot holocron implementation makes people dance against their desires. Sure, 1 out of 10 end up liking the class, but the other 9 spend most of their time afk dancing in their starter clothes. No other class looks so stupid/boring/worthless from the outside.
Agree wholeheartedly. This isn't a problem with AFKbut ratheris a problem with "the idiot holocron implementation".
"Please rank your objections to AFK so we can formulate a way to get them addressed best by developers."
Um, my objection is the fact that they allow it.
You still haven't given any good reason to not allow it, save for you don't like it. Why don't you like it?
I'm not trying to argue for AFK here. I'm trying to understand the real objections to it. There are real objections to it, but every real objection is an equal problem with people who want to be idiots while ATK as well.
My objections are many not the least of wich is this one, I can't delete their graphic presence from the world though so unless I want to be swiming in a sewer of AFK bodies in the cantina I have no room to work. If AFK is a legitimate play style provide and AFK server and let AFK people try to enjoy the game in a vacume devoid of ATK people.
This is strait from Sony's overview of the game.
Become a part of a galaxy far, far away in a way you've only dreamed! Star Wars Galaxies™: An Empire Divided™ places you in the midst of the galactic struggle between good and evil. What will your role be in the unfolding drama?
should it read ....
Alow your CPU to become a part of a galaxy far, far away in a way you've only dreamed! Star Wars Galaxies™: An Empire Divided™ places you'r CPUin the midst of the galactic struggle between good and evil. What will you do while you CPU afk macros your character to master?
Sultrina wrote:
My objections are many not the least of wich is this one, I can't delete their graphic presence from the world though so unless I want to be swiming in a sewer of AFK bodies in the cantina I have no room to work. If AFK is a legitimate play style provide and AFK server and let AFK people try to enjoy the game in a vacume devoid of ATK people.
How is that different than "swimming in a sewer of ATK bodies in the cantina in which you have no room to work"? Just because they're AFK? They can (and do) do the same thing ATK. That's a problem with overcrowded cantinas, not necessarily with AFK dancers.
Is it the presence of the (AFK) that irks you? One might stop to think that a dancer who's flying the (AFK) over her head might have that on to auto-reply to crafting clients when she wants quiet time in the cantina.
Ravenmist,
Top 5 looks good to me, now let's hope they can fix it all! 
2. One single AFK Master Dancer is all the entertainment an entire town needs in a cantina. Everyone watches this person because they are the fastest healing to be found. You know you are getting master-level healing with this person, afk or not.
Same holds true for ATK dancers. A single ATK Master Dancer is all the entertainment is all an entire town needs in a cantina. Everyone can watch this one person because s/he is the fastest healing to be found. No real difference between ATK and AFK here, so what's the problem exactly?"
The difference is that you can group with the dancer who is at the keys and share in the healing exp. It won't matter if everyone chooses to watch the master dancer since you will still get some healing exp. However, you can't group with a person who is not at the keys (Unless their macro actually includes a /join line, but many don't seem to) so you lose out on all the healing exp unless the people watching decide to be generous and watch you instead.
Regarding the sea of bodies, at least you can *ask* a dancer who is at the keys to move over a bit to make some space. There's a chance they'll accomodate you. There is ZERO chance that an AFKdancer will accomodate your request to make some space--and yes, I've tried emailing them and politely asking them to AFK off to the side to free the dance floor area for the people at keys. Most of them said No.
And why exactly does someone's CPU have the same rights to that space asa living player?
(and sorry about the formatting of the colored text, and the resulting confusion it's likely to cause :/ )
So now it's down to whose CPU has more of a right to use the services they have both paid for ?
Room to dance ? I hate not having room myself or having idiots come and start dancing or standing on top of me but really are we looking for asking for room so that we can dance with out our avatar touching another avatar or touching a table or wall ? It's not going to happen at alot of places. And if we are looking for that kind of room just so we can get tips/buff/heal then I some how doubt we'll get that kind of room.. If on the other hand we are performing a dance for a group that has paid us to put on a show for them.. of course the space is a problem. Which should be fixed then at a player Cantina you set up the show for there on a certain night for a certain time and anyone not supposed to be performing with you and is in the way gets booted...
pfft sorry there didn't manage to finish that up.. I don't think anyone over the entire game thinks they really should be allowed to AFK for hours on end gaining xp or anything else. But where is that limit of when someone is just afk for a few minutes at which second does it become unattended playing... I could argue that the moment you stop moving the mouse or typing and hitting enter and your avatar keeps doing something that you are now engaging in unattended playing(an extreme example i know). But should you log out when you get a phone call because you won't be playing for a few minutes ? if you go to grab some food.. or go to the bathroom... if you fall over and have a heart attack.. should you log out first ? Because I mean even being logged in uses SOE's bandwidth and servers and Processor(although what do we pay that 15 a month for anyways..+ our own ISP).
Personaly I think an hour is too long to be afk but as a middle of the road option I think any afking over an hour should get you logged( I think half an hour is too long but I could very easy see instances where people don't mean to but end up going afk for a half hour).. even if you are only just sitting some where doing nothing... the problem then becomes that they won't put up afk tags... what then will the server decided is "afk" keystrokes ? that can be gotten around easy with programs.(and while it would then be against the EULA I some how doubt SOE would find out or that the people wanting to AFK and do stuff would stop just because they had to go with a program out of the game)
So after an hour people with the afk tag up are logged out.. we now have those that aren't there but with no tag still in our way..
People tend to mush AFk and macros together as if they are both the problem when the real problem is the unattended gameplay or the Away From part of AFK. The macro system in SWG is great and extremly useful as tool to enhance all players game play and time in the game. Anything done to nerf the macro system would be bad.
So Fix afking but freakin leave the macros alone.
Sorry I think I started rambling there.. and now I am thinking this thread is NOT the place for this sort of thing.
So what this thread is for...
I like the list more or less. I do agree with others though that I don't think Missions should be removed from the list just because "it's being worked on" it should stay on the list until it is fixed.
And of course I still don't like the running into players making us stop. Tables,walls or chairs are fine. But I believe that players making other players stop sucks and leaves it open to far to many problems then any sort of bonuse or help to the class.
So to recap
AFKing for too long sucks.
Leave macros alone.
1. Missions
2. New dances(songs), flourishes(fixbugs with current dances)ect.
3. More entertainer content(for ents,ID,musician and dancers faction content as well)
4. Group commands.(autosplit tips ?)
5. wider range of places to register at.
6. Buffing help.
The healing xp does suck but I'm willing to go through it.. although as part of a fix for AFK and grind of healing xp, lowering it wouldn't be bad as of right now, since the new death decay has put even more of a damper on the healing xp.
Niza wrote:
These are the issues that the players want taken care of or the issues that you personally want taken care of?
Maybe I'm misreading these boards but it seems to me that the top issues here for nearly everyone are;
Content - (missions/dances/etc)
the AFK problem (nearly every other post on this board becomes a debate)
Artwork - (falling/dances looking ugly without flourishes)
group dancing - (things like group dance commands, group tipping, etc.)
Sexual aspects of dancing -(pro or con seems like a lot of debate is made on the subject)
You don't apparently do a very good job reading the boards or the lists people post then or more likely the case you probably just don't spend nearly the amount of time reading posts on these boards that I do. (theres nothing wrong with that) Several of the things you listed are on maybe one persons top 5 list that posted on that thread at the most. I think that might be what you see as the top 5, but what others are posting is another story. I'm going by the problems I see the most people concerned with.
However, to address your personal list.
Content - (missions/dances/etc)
Something all classes are working toward. You list missions and dances as examples? Perhaps your not aware these are both things that are already being worked on and have been pushed by myself in the past. Theres little need to push them more at this point when something is already being done.
the AFK problem (nearly every other post on this board becomes a debate)
Yes, it all does become a debate. Why? Because people don't agree. Some are pro, some are against. This by its nature alone would make it something that shouldn't be on the list or did you not think of that? That being said, there may be two sides to this but from what I've seen the sides are not even and theres more against it then for it. On top of that, I feel i'm here to help those in our profession that are Dancers first and foremost and with them its definately a majority that want AFK gone. Which is why it was a major topic of my State of the Profession post, which is why it is on my list period (not top 5) and why the devs are working on possible solutions.
Artwork - (falling/dances looking ugly without flourishes)
This was our number one issue until the devs came back and said they will be adding more flourishes/dances but its going to take time to do it. But you should know that already if you've been a dancer a long time right? Anyone still see a point is putting this on our top 5 list?
group dancing - (things like group dance commands, group tipping, etc.)
A wonderful idea thats been discussed before on these boards. I even posted a response from the dev about it when I bugged him about some of the ideas attached to it. Its something we'll hopefully see down the line but its on maybe 1% of the top 5 lists I see posted here, certainly not a priority right now.
Sexual aspects of dancing -(pro or con seems like a lot of debate is made on the subject)
This doesn't even make sense.. and why would I put this on our top 5 list? I think this could very well be the first time I've seen anyone put that on their top 5 list.
You have some great ideas on your list that many others, including myself would love to see. However most of the issues are already on the table and have no need to be pushed further, or are not nearly in the majority of what people see as the top 5 issues for this profession. You oppinion certainly counts tho and I do hope you start posting more on these boards and share it with me. Thanks again!
AFK Entertainers.
This is my personal #1. However, Sigrun is right, this is not a coding issue. We have the rules to enforce no AFK already set. All we need is CSRs that enforce them. But the rules are disobeyed openly and all a CSR has to say is: it's a little bit illegal, but not really, and we won't enforce it, please AFK all you want. That is the real problem. Not if you can... but if people are aware of the consequences and CSRs that are actually enforcing it.
Fix the lyrical/formal base dance.
I'm not a slave girl to some supersized galaxy worm dancing exotic all night long... this dance looks soooo great, it's a waste that only we can see it. Please fix it !
Falling down.
Yeah... either fix it, or make dresses decay when falling so at least my tailor will never be out of money....
( to the communicationally challenged DEV team: this is commonly referred to as sarcasm )
Make changes to mind buffing system to make things easier. Some way to tell when mind buff is fully applied. Perhaps a message to let you know when another dancer has already used /setperform on someone you try to buff. Make it only require /setperform and a new command /setperformdone instead of /watch and /stopwatch, so that we can make sure that it's given properly. Take guesswork out.
/agree
Reduce amount of healing exp needed to skill up. (with new changes to death system its way to hard to get the required amount of healing exp to gain our skills.)
I am master already, so it's no so high on my list, but I can see that it bothers a lot of people and it would bother me if I had to level again.
Mind-buffing self.
No need for me. We are the social profession and I'm rarely short of other masters to buff me for free.
Fix Entertainer Missions.
I already crossed them off my list. Gone for good, I have arranged myself with the twisted SWG reality and found a job that pays big bucks for 15 skillpoints. I would like to see better missions, but given the thought that raising the payout even so much we get out ahead after a shuttle trip should be minimal coding time and was not invested yet,I guess that it's too hard. Which is saying A LOT about the kind of code behind this product and the quality or size of the DEV team.
New flourishes, full 8 for every dance. (good ones only please)
Yes, please !
Group commands for dancers that allow /groupstartdance, /groupchangedance, /groupstopdance and perhaps even /groupdistract 1 etc... also Synchdance?
Yes, please !
Fix buff not resetting on death along with all the other buff bugs.
Why ? No need for me.
Fix all the small cantinas which don't let people register (Dathomir, Dantooine, etc.
Yes, please !
System message - A notice of who is /watching you and perhaps a /listwatch command.
/listwatch would be nice
Technique abilities (effects) are just eye candy but should add something (perhaps XP bonus)/ reduced action cost
Yes, please !
Fix the "playing music getting dance xp" exploit!
Not on my priority list, but wouldn't hurt either.
A "mirror" ability that allows a dancer to chose the mirror opposite of a flourish. (mirror should be a toggle)
Yes, please !
Fix the body part bleed through on our clothes.
Yes, please ! I hate this game when people tell me "wear something else, we can see your a..."
Captivator is still misspelled as Captivater
Similar to the mission payouts, I have given up hope here. Obviously fixing something as difficult as a spelling mistake is beyond the DEVs capabilities. *sigh*
Denial of Service Enhancements. /denyService faction:[Rebel|Imperial] and /denyService guild:<guildName>
No personal need, but I can see the reasoning behind it.
Faction points for Dancing while overt and healing other overts? (small amount of faction, definitely make it slower then running missions by a lot but still something.)
Would give an incentive for dancing overt... not my priority though
Collision detection. Some items you can walk through, others you can't. Make more of them so you can't go through them so dancers don't end up standing in the middle of tables. Also possibly make it so colliding with another player makes them stop dancing?
Static objects yes, other players opens a whole the size of a small moon ( or spacestation *g* ) for griefing. I could write a macrofor an AFK-griefing-botin 3 lines instantly without much thinking. Besides that, moving objects not colliding is a server performance decision, style or realismfollows about half a world behind.
Make the XP earned based only on the level of the dancers experience, not on the dance itself. If a high level dancer uses basic they should get the same XP as if they used exotic.
Good idea, not my priority though.
A few reasonable (non bard like) field abilities? Ability to distract mobs? Npcs? (short stun, confusion, draw attention/aggro?) (hey, it makes sense I think) Perhaps a resistance to B.F.?
Not my priority, I don't want to go out in the field.
Reduce the drifting effect certain flourishes cause.
Yes, please !
Please note that this is from my personal point of view as a new master dancer. Just because it's not on my personal list doesn't mean it's bad. I would just like other things taken care of first.