Dancer Archive
Thread: Yay, and thanks to all you AFK Macro-ers
I accused you of placing your personal needs over those of those of a profession. Meeuki accused me of "having few tricks in my bag" and "pissing and moaning". One is relevant to the discussion, the others are pure insults designed to elicit flames. I apologize if you believe my assessment of you was unfair, but I stand by it. In this particular example, you and your AFKers are self motivated and unwilling to see how your actions affect those of others.
As for the rest, I fully admit that the devs will likely never do anything about this issue, so no matter how eloquent I am here and in the future, you win. Nothing will change. The only thing this proves is that I'm foolish enough to fight battles I cannot win.
I do not blame you or anyone else for getting healed by AFKers. It's not your fault this problem exists. I do not hate AFKers and I do not give them grief in the game. They are using a valid mechanism, as you pointed out, and hence doing nothing really wrong. I do, however, strenuously argue against it on a theoretical level here on the forums in the hope that one day the devs might one day turn their attention back to us, and at that time I'd like them to see that this is still an issue. Again, probably futile. At this point the AFKers outnumber us anyway, they're already winning with numbers.
You should have known exactly what you were walking into when you posted what you did on the dancer forum. Certainly that entertainer whose advice you followed very much knew. You should not blame me or anyone else here for defending our profession against what we perceive to be a huge problem. Not a week goes by without someone, for some reason, bringing up this issue. We'd all just as soon see it die, since everything has been said ten times over, but people keep picking at the wound. You just happen to be the latest person to do so.
This thread has pretty much outlived its usefulness. I apologize for letting it get to this point..this is something I obviously feel very strongly about. Soon enough I will hang up my dancing shoes over this issue and the AFKers can have the cantinas without my interference. Until that time, I invite anyone to smack me hard next time I get drawn into a discussion over this topic. It's a fight noone can win with intractable sides, and should it continue, it will do so without me.
- J
hmm i didn't just mean you pickles. i meant anyone thinking our profession is 'dying'. it's utterly rediculous.
Yes. It was before the AFK phenomenon. I saw it, I was there. I can say with 100% certainty that you are wrong because I saw it first hand
ok, i was there too and i saw plenty of afk. not as much text spamming. the macros were not as sophisticated, oh and the dancers weren't as jaded or bitter, despite having a broken profession.
"what's that?" (the aspiring dancer reading this flame-thread response) "you mean dancers used to be more broken then now?"
that's right. we are apparently a "broken", "dying" profession despite the fact we have the power to heal the mind bar dubbed by the developers "the determining factor in combat". we are broken despite being the only class that heals battle fatigue. we are broken despite being able to buff the mind, something that in the presence of an informed entertainer and an informed group can be as valuable, if not moreso, than a good doctor.
i forgot that the last time i tried to organize a show at the theater my computer crashed. i forgot the last time i tried to talk to other dancers to organize a band the game froze. i forgot that the last time i healed a group of strangers that i instantly got transported to 0,0. i forgot that the last time there was nobody around at 3am and i was able to let some kid keep playing 8 hours past his bedtime that i instantly died and was so bugged i couldn't play anymore. i forgot when i flourish all 3 of my ham bars go to 0. i forgot that 90% of my dancers were so broken i lost xp. i forgot they banned sultrina and all of her exquisite footwork tutorials.
i forgot there was only one way to adequately entertain in this game.. in a dull grey box... and if someone else is in there, away from their keyboard, i am totally unable to make a living, or have fun, or socialise, to the point where the entire profession whithers away and dies.
and you wonder why people hate entertainers. you rip into this poor guy for THANKING someone. like he's a **edit**ing rapist or something. call him selfish after he gave someone a 5k tip. jesus like it's not you people's elitist attitude that hurts the profession. nah it's gotta be the afkers.
Greatsails wrote:
So: hats off to you guys. And the next time someone wants to hate you because you dance while AFK, just ignore them. They are whiney and evidence a lot of their character through their hate. I wouldn't /addignore, because that person may be a customer for some product of yours at a later date, when you're wearing a tag other than your Master Dancer. In fact, I would /addfriend, with a note about AFK troublemaker, and then charge them a little more
I don't hate anyone in the game who doesn't cheat, and the last time I looked (/glanceThru EULA - /glanceThru TOA) marcos aren't cheats. Haters are always haters, and probably not worth your time defending against anyway.
Just keep dancing. We need you.
Oh, I have to agree here.
Thank you, AFK entertainer.
I used to be respectful of planets like Dathomir and Endor. I used to shudder and cringe every time I took Mind wounds. But no more. Thanks to you, AFK entertainer, I need not fear the evil Mind wounds. I simply go to town and fix them in 5 minutes. I don't even need to pay you a big chunk of my mission payouts. I might anyways, but I know that you'll still be here even if I don't.
Because of you, this tough planet called Dantooine is just as easy as Naboo. I can take level 42 missions and know that you'll ease my Fatigue. I don't need to interact with any players or hire an Entertainer. Do you know what they charge to fly out here? As if they have anything better to do!
And thank you, AFK entertainer, for making clone transport a reality. When I finish with the Lok volcano, I don't really want to walk back 11 kilometers. I simply get myself killed and clone. Oh sure, I have 100 Mind wounds, but you are there to ease that pain. I always felt that verisimilitude was overrated. Why walk when I can commit suicide? Ha, ha, look at all those suckers who actually have to walk back to town.
Oh, AFK Entertainer, you are the paragon of all that is good and true. Please petition the devs to transform the Medic field into something similar to yours. The Medics should aspire to be as godly as you. After all, they expect me to pay for their services, and since I don't pay, they don't always hang out in the Med Center. So, I really hope that there is an AFK Medic, because this Yavin is a bit tricky, and I hate coming back to town with wounds. Please make Yavin just as easy as the other starter planets. I really wish the mamiens were as easy as chubas. I mean, how dare they impose a challenge on us!
You AFK Entertainers really saved my bacon. For a second there, I thought the game might have bordered on challenging!
Well, I had a point, but I rambled. It's true, AFKers make for a **edit** dull cantina...but if you're a master dancer and you've never AFK danced (besides that 3 minute RR break you felt guilty about when you came back and got the 3K tip), congratulations, you're in about 1% of the population of dancers.
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Not that it really matters, and i haven't read the rest of the thread, but i am in that 1%. I have been a master dancer for almost 3 months, and in the whole time i was working towards it and eventually became a master, I never once AFK macroed (aside from the 2 minute trips to the bathroom, or to get a drink).
I just want to say, I have giving up on trying to defend my profession, the people who AFK are going to do it whether i like it or not, so why waste my breath? I just try to greet and chat with all the people who come in, hopefully they will remember, and choose to watch the non-AFK people next time they need the services of an entertainer.
Just my 2 credits....
Ekido - Master Dancer - Scylla
I used to be respectful of planets like Dathomir and Endor. I used to shudder and cringe every time I took Mind wounds. But no more. Thanks to you, AFK entertainer, I need not fear the evil Mind wounds. I simply go to town and fix them in 5 minutes. I don't even need to pay you a big chunk of my mission payouts. I might anyways, but I know that you'll still be here even if I don't.
see the whole sarcasm thing sorta falls apart when the post doesn't make sense. so you are insinuating people used to fear mind wounds on dathomir and endor, but not wounds on the other 6 stat bars? so the mind wounds were what made dathomir hard? so normal medics, mabye a scout with a camp were easy to find, but someone with entertainer was not so that made dathomir hard? um, then why suggest we need afk medics too to increase the ease of the adventure worlds? oh i know why, cause you didn't think about a single thing before you wrote it.
lol then there's this gem:
And thank you, AFK entertainer, for making clone transport a reality. When I finish with the Lok volcano, I don't really want to walk back 11 kilometers. I simply get myself killed and clone. Oh sure, I have 100 Mind wounds, but you are there to ease that pain. I always felt that verisimilitude was overrated. Why walk when I can commit suicide? Ha, ha, look at all those suckers who actually have to walk back to town.
so afk entertainers not only kill our profession. sorry, 'destroy' our profession. it's also the reason people take the clone train? it's not the 11k walk, or the ease of paying 1k to clone without wounds. it's the releative ease of finding an afk entertainer. i love that. not only should mind be the definitive factor in combat, but it should be the definitive factor in how hard worlds are, and the definitive factor in how long i can play the game. how about this... we'll get rid of afk entertaining... you people can post your hours of operation at coronet and theed and then when you guys aren't covering we can have the devs turn the game off? hell, we might as well take away mind healing in camps too, to force people to go to our inane little chatrooms, oh and lastly we should have bouncers so not only does everyone have to go to the gossipy little holes promised us by the devs, we can also be the Ops of the chatroom as well!!
by the way that is how sarcasm works... not by having inane 2 points and contradicting 1 of them.
picklesSW wrote:
I do, however, strenuously argue against it on a theoretical level here on the forums
I think this is something everyone forgets and it bears repeating and re-reading. Read it. Understsand it. In Heinlein's words... GROK it.
Everyone on both sides of the AFK/anti-AFK debate needs to get this into their heads. What goes on at the forums is a high-level theoretical debate largely run by a handful of people (myself included) who happen to enjoy the action of debating. It does not in any way, shape, or form, reflect anyone's behavior toward others in-game. Assuming that someone who supports AFKers actually is an AFKer in game is foolhardy. I know at least a couple of the AFK-supporters here do NOT do it in game but they have strong theoretical reasons for supporting other people's right to do it (the old "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend with my life your right to say it" argument). And lots of us (myself included) who are quite vocal about it here never even discuss it in game. Other than the occasaional jab about people addicted to Acid-Fermented Kreetlejuice (which in hundreds of hours of game play I have said maybe 5 total lines about in spatial over a period of many weeks), I never really discuss it in game. Who am I going to discuss it with? The AFKers are AFK. They can't hear me. The non-AFKers... that'd be preaching to the choir.
Besides which, did you ever try to have a good, solid discussion of theoretical matters on anything in game? The medium is just not suited to it. Forums are much better... you can proofread, add italics, change fonts, etc, etc. Much easier. In game, it's just not something most of us do.
I think we all need to remember that our forum lives are much different from our in-game lives. Don't assume someone who is a pit viper on the forums would be the same in game, because in my experience this is almost never true.
What happens on this forum with regard to almost all issues is a high-level, often quite eloquent, debate on Online RPG Theory. What happens on a day-to-day basis in the game is not theory but practice. It's night and day, apples and oranges.
So the next time you are tempted to assume someone is a rude holier-than-thou ATKer, or a midnless AKFer, in game, just based on forum posts... stop. And remember what happens when you assume...
C
this is idiocy!! if the adventure planets were supposed to be difficult like you say, and mind wounds were to be a measure of that difficulty, then why the **edit** have a cantina there? why have a med center? why even let you clone?
the reason it's like that is because dancers hate going to those cantinas and dancing by themselves for hours. how the hell would the removal of afk dancing change that? oh i get it, what you are saying is removing afk dancing would make it so the only reason to have a cantina on those worlds is for those rich patrons wealthy enough to pay your ticket there. or for you to heal yourself. more elitism. big surprise.
oh and my inability to understand concepts must have made me miss where you backed up your cloning transport bull**edit**?
and i'm sure if i ran over to the medic forums and posted 'thanks to scout camps for healing me when there was no doctor around' i'd get a big nice, "huh?" as a response instead of the crap that gets spouted on this forum.
wait, but maybe if scout camps cluttered up the doctors precious chatroom?... nah... nevermind.
We complained in beta. We warned that the people who would actually enjoy this type of profession would be driven out. We begged the entertainer correspondents to plead our case, we jump into every debate that we can find reguarding entertainers being AFK and in return we get..... Cantinas.
Entertainers won't be getting any fixes. Missions will always suck. Eventually someone will realize that the majority of player characters using this skill are AFK heal bots and battle fatigue will be removed and medics will be given mind wound heal packs. I often wonder if a dev has even seen any of the great ideas for making the entertainer professions fun?
I think the entertainer correspondents don't push for the right changes. I think the majority of players hate entertainers anyway and I think the majority ofpeople who would benefit from an improved and fun entertainer profession system are too busy flaming each other to compromise on a beneficial and fun set of improvements.
Six professions down on my FSCS quest... Maybe by the time I get done with that there will be an entertainer profession worth playing.
Ravenmist and SlickRiptide have tried to get the developers to see this and they just won't. I don't think you can blame the correspondents for this one.
Too many factors in the entertainment profession (tips, playing at keyboard honestly, etc, etc) were left up to player discretion, probably on the theory that the 'free market' system of a game like this would sort itself out. The theory was flawed and the developers don't want to admit or see that. You can't blame the correspondents for this.
C