Dancer Archive
Thread: Yay, and thanks to all you AFK Macro-ers
Hey,
How about this? If you care so much, why not build a guild of your own? All dancers/musicians. Then you go group up and perform together. Sounds like a plan.
We used to have a guild called "Nabooine Entertainers Guild."It lasted for few months butit fell apart because we wanted to try something else. We agree unanimously to take our own paths. However, considering how passionate you are with dancing, I think you might make it work.
Credits? I am sure you can manage to pool a million or two. It's a worthy sacrifice for the cause you care so much.
Q
props to the original poster.
when i used to park my master dancer (thats right nvoigt, you simpleton, master thus devoid of the need for xp) in the back of the cantina on dathomir i reveled in people thanking me for saving their ass at 4am. it was the whole reason i left the computer on.
and don't take offense at the spittle spraying hypocrites on this forum either. the irony is the social class attracts all the xenophobes, divas, facists, and elitists. all of them wanted to be the unique individual in their pretty purple dress and painted lekkus andthe master dancer title was to be their sparkling tiara. you have to wonder if they really are skilled enough to switch modes from baited breath to enthralling conversationalist with ease. from what i have seen on here, and in the game, no.
well, despite what the people on here would have you believe, the profession does not automatically an entertainer make, so bitter whining is all you'll ever get out of any attempt to highlight what supposedly (laughably) has taken away their identity. but keep right on thanking the people in game. chances are, if it's dantooine and 3am they are there to make **edit** sure a design oversight isn't going to ruin the fun for everyone.
picklesSW wrote:
I tried, couldn't find enough decent entertainers to give it a shot.
That's my primary point. There aren't enough. The game cannot fully meet the need for mind and BF healing without AFKers. You guys who took up entertainer becuase you enjoy the social aspect ofit all just aren't numerous enough to meet the demand for the healing out there. You are too few.
There were several entertainer PAs on my server early on, but I've not seen them in a long time at this point. At one point I was traveling with a small group, touring, but most of them gave it up too. The primary reasons given were the AFKers and the lack of tips.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not some wet-behind-the-ears beginner, and I'm out there living this horror every day. Maybe I'm unlucky, but that cannot hide the fact that just about every entertainer I come across is AFK. I don't think I'm being pessimistic. Entertainers like me are a dying breed. Maybe I should hurry up and die too, but I'm stubborn.
You're not a dying breed. How many people have truly left the game because of this "AFK Problem?" 1% of the 1% who think it is such? Neither SOE nor anyone else mourns their passing. They are on to games they find more fun - good for them. The only reason you perceive you are dying is because there are *so* many more AFKers than before. Expect that trend to continue. Not because of holocrons. Beacuse of populations. As the game gets bigger, and the need for the healing gets bigger, you're going to find more and more and more AFK entertainers, until such time as the game has achieved it's maximum population as determined by the supply/demand of the computer game and MMORPG market. You aren't dying, you're just becoming even more of a minority than before.
I recently got an email from a person trying to start up a cantina without AFKers. I'll probably check them out and see how it goes. I do appreciate your words, Q.
- J
I am not trying to flame you pickles, honestly. I only wish you could see the game, and your place in it, from a broader perspective. The game would not be as fun for 95% of the gaming community if they had to sit in a cantina for 15-20 minutes to heal their PvP-earned BF and wounds because there are only 4 of your type of preferred, non-afkentertainers in the Theed cantina, or in Coronet, or in Moenia, or in any other hotspot. Think of it from a Devs standpoint.
- Can everyone be satisfied? No.
- Can the need for healing be adequately met if AFK macro daning/playing was removed from the game? No.
- Do we ignore the concerns of entertainers who cannot be appeased because they see the game only from their own limited perspective? Yes.
- Why? We are actively sacrificing something they consider an important game mechanic (socializing) for something that many many many more people consider an important game mecahinc (quick and easy-to-access healing). And no one likes to be told by a Dev that their concerns have no hope of being addressed. Therefore, we shall tell them nothing.
I *do* see your point. I *do* see why you are so passionate about it. I think that your point that AFKers are making your life of a non-afk-entertainer-trying-to-get-a-social-groove-on harder is valid. There are many parts of the game that need attention to make some players happy that will never get attention, because they affect such a limited number of players. You say that you cannot be swayed. You evidence your own close-mindedness when you say that, and that's unfortunate. All I came on here to say was
THANKS
to all AFKers, because they make my life easier. They make the lives of *lots* of players easier. They make your life less easy. Well, you are in the extreme minority, and as such, you have2 options. Deal with it, or don't. Complaining will gain you nothing, least of all sympathy.
Again, thanks to you AFKers.
Can the need for healing be adequately met if AFK macro daning/playing was removed from the game? No.
Do we ignore the concerns of entertainers who cannot be appeased because they see the game only from their own limited perspective? Yes.
Why? We are actively sacrificing something they consider an important game mechanic (socializing) for something that many many many more people consider an important game mecahinc (quick and easy-to-access healing). And no one likes to be told by a Dev that their concerns have no hope of being addressed. Therefore, we shall tell them nothing.
bingo.
Agreed.
"Can the need for healing be adequately met if AFK macro daning/playing was removed from the game? No."
Yes. It was before the AFK phenomenon. I saw it, I was there. I can say with 100% certainty that you are wrong because I saw it first hand.
"Do we ignore the concerns of entertainers who cannot be appeased because they see the game only from their own limited perspective? Yes."
Believe me, I see the larger picture. Let me be clear. My larger picture says that it's probably a better scenario to force some professions to travel to get their wounds healed (or hire entertainers to come to outer worlds) then it is to destroy 2 professions completely.
"Why? We are actively sacrificing something they consider an important game mechanic (socializing) for something that many many many more people consider an important game mecahinc (quick and easy-to-access healing). And no one likes to be told by a Dev that their concerns have no hope of being addressed. Therefore, we shall tell them nothing."
By your definition then, wouldn't it be better to simply have NPC entertainers? Hell, let's just remove mind wounds and battle fatigue altogether. Really, why have entertainers at ALL? For that matter, why have doctors and medical centers? Who not have an NPC healer that you pay a certain amount and get all your wounds fixed. Doesn't that sound much more appealing to you?
Please do answer those questions within the scope of your "larger picture" as stated.
I'm not dignifying meeuki's flame-bait prattle with a response, sorry.
- J
Also. I will say it yet again. I don't think anybody (sane) hates AFKers. We may dislike what their presence has done to our profession. But we don't hate them, personally. We don't even know them. How can you when they are never there at keyboard to talk to? It's hard to hate someone you've never met.
Frankly I am bewildered at how many AFKers (and AFKer-supporters) keep complaining about how those of us who don't AFK "hate" them, while at the same time how few posts I have ever seen on behalf of those who stay at keyboard all the time saying they actually hate anybody, or even implying it. To be frank, the AFKers whining about being hated borders on paranoia.
Or perhaps, just perhaps, that reflects a guilty conscience? Hmmm...
C
If by 'elitist' you mean that I expect people to actually play the game and put in effort to receive reward, then slap that label on me! Twice!
As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid I'm completely baffled by the relevence, or lack thereof. Yes, there's plenty of bugs and problems in the game. So?
- J
so you are the one saying the profession is dying, when anything could be farther from the truth. read it again, i proofed it a bit, it's legible.
and if you are upset about people 'not playing' the game it's time to find a new game, or you better champion a hell of alot more than anti-afk dancing. the developers have set this game up so if you don't like sitting there and grinding away you can get to master easily and play. it's not gonna change and every profession save3 is like that.
and so what anyway? yeah that does make you elitist. who the hell let you decide how other people get to play the game? especially if it doesnt affect you, and it doesn't, for all the reasons i detailed above. our class works better than most and actual entertaining (which i'm arguing nobody ripping on this guy actually does) is actually **edit** easy even with afkers running around. maybe not if all you got in your sack of tricks is a smoke bomb and a dress change... but whatever. you'll piss and moan even if they do remove afk dancing so i guess i should just let it slide.
- J
Just some more points, made primarily with quotes:
pickles wrote: Meeuki, I'm sorry, but I'm going to choose not to respond to you any longer. I have responded to your posts without personal attacks, focusing only on your points, and in turn have been attacked and insulted in two different posts now. If you're unable to focus your attention on the subject at hand and leave personal attacks out of this, then I choose not to debate any further with you. I will not be party to a flame war.
He also wrote: As for the original post, puhleeze, that wasn't a thank-you. He wrote the thank-you already in an email. That was a good old-fashioned get-on-your-soapbox lecture against people who dislike AFKers. He's not selfish for giving a 5k tip. He's selfish because he places his own well-being above that of the well-being of others.
To respond: you have done to me what you are annoyed at Meeuki for doing to you. Please see that. Please also see that my intent was exactly what I said, nothing more. I know that AFKers get flack from non-AFKers, and I just wanted to say thanks to them. They get so much negativity, I just wanted to add something positive for them. And I'm "selfish because he places his own well-being above that of the well-being of others." Well you know what? You're concerned about the well-being of a very small percentage of a pair of professions that account for small percentages of the game playing people. I'm concerned about the well-fare of everyone else.You agree with me that we can't please everyone. In that world where not everyone can be pleased, we aim to please as many as possible. I'm sorry you're not in that "as-many-as-possible" group, but that's the way it goes sometimes. You're diction and style indicate you aren't lacking for intelligence, but with the 2 quotes above, neither do you lack for hypocracy.
Pickles also wrote: Can the need for healing be adequately met if AFK macro daning/playing was removed from the game? No."
Yes. It was before the AFK phenomenon. I saw it, I was there. I can say with 100% certainty that you are wrong because I saw it first hand."
I shall assist you by placing emphasis on the past tense of your statement. You *saw* it first hand. If you'll note my point above about expecting to see more AFK dancers, it is because the game is going to grow in population. The population is larger now than it was back when you *saw* it first hand. The game itself is different. It changed, and you didn't change with it. Does that mean you have to go AFK? No. When I say that you didn't change with the game, I'm saying your view of it didn't change. You see the game now as you saw it then, without seeming to realize it is different now. There are very many more people to heal than all "pure" entertainers can hope to get to.
You ask if it is unreasonable for players who need to be healed to travel across the galaxy to get healed, or to hire entertainers to go out to the distant planets. I agree with you that it is not unreasonable at all. What you fail to realize is what drives an MMOPRG. Reason isn't it. It is the masses, and it's money.Players don't want to travel, and now thanks to the AFKers, they don't have to. Supply and demand at its finest. Its organic and it works. It doesn't favor you here, andI feel bad that it makes you feel bad. But sometimes, life is that way. I'm not looking at it selfishly, I'm looking at it pragmatically. It just so happens that I'm on the side of the large group who gets favored here, and you're not.
Imagine this: Thunderheart comes on to the Dancer Forum and says "We recognize that AFK performing is destroying your profession, and to solve it, we've implimented the following changes on Test Center:
- Entertainers, Dancers, and Musicians no longer gain any kind ofexperiencewhile the game recognizes them as being AFK.
- Players with Battle Fatigue and Mind Wounds can no longer be healed by performers the game recognizes as being AFK
- A reminder to the many AFK performers whom this change will affect, any 3rd party mouse-mover program and others of the kind to circumvent this are against the TOA.
Imagine the uproar that would cause. Devs only want to cause uproar for things that are game-breaking (read: AT-ST). This isn't, hence the reasonthey've not addressed it.
As to the points above about why not just have NPC entertainers? Because that's not organic, and it couldn't adjust to the individual economies of different servers, or adjust to new game mechanics. Trust me, Mind buffs from non-AFK dancers on Dantooine are a lot most costly for me than they are in Theed. That's worth it; I pay it. But the difference is decided by the natural supply-demand of an individual server, or of the moment from day to dayor week to week. It's a lot easier, and also better, for the Devs to let the players work that out, than to come up with a rigid, same for all no matter the circumstance NPC entertainer whom you pay creds for heals and buffs. That's why.
Pickles also wrote: If you're unable to focus your attention on the subject at hand and leave personal attacks out of this, then I choose not to debate any further with you. I will not be party to a flame war.
And I again reference: As for the original post, puhleeze, that wasn't a thank-you. He wrote the thank-you already in an email. That was a good old-fashioned get-on-your-soapbox lecture against people who dislike AFKers. He's not selfish for giving a 5k tip. He's selfish because he places his own well-being above that of the well-being of others.
Again, pleasenote the condradiction (since "hypocracy" is a much more inflamatory word). I also don't want to be a party to a flame war, which this has turned into. Again, my intent was to say thanks to a group of people who are valuable, and who get nothing but negativity from their "peers." Your mind is clearly closed to seeing this game for what it is, so I shall attempt no further pursuasion. I guess next time I think an AFK dancer/musician, I'll be sure to tip them more. I had no idea the degree of distaste the people here have for them. And if I ever sit in a cantina and have a non-AFKer say something in spacial degrading AFKers, I shall be certain to tip them less. After all: if it's about the social aspect of it, their negativity has failed to entertain me. I shall tip them for their healing, and not a credit more. The AFKers get more, so I can encourage them in the face of so much negativity.
Thanks for helping me see what they've always complained about.
I also noted that the Correspondent here posted in another thread that she constantly complains to the Devs on the CF about this, and has nerver gotten a response. She should expect to never receive one. This is an issue that would be explosive, and since they don't plan to address it, best to let it lie.
"Again, pleasenote the condradiction (since "hypocracy" is a much more inflamatory word). I also don't want to be a party to a flame war, which this has turned into. Again, my intent was to say thanks to a group of people who are valuable, and who get nothing but negativity from their "peers." Your mind is clearly closed to seeing this game for what it is, so I shall attempt no further pursuasion. I guess next time I think an AFK dancer/musician, I'll be sure to tip them more. I had no idea the degree of distaste the people here have for them. And if I ever sit in a cantina and have a non-AFKer say something in spacial degrading AFKers, I shall be certain to tip them less. After all: if it's about the social aspect of it, their negativity has failed to entertain me. I shall tip them for their healing, and not a credit more. The AFKers get more, so I can encourage them in the face of so much negativity."
I would describe the above paragraph as one of the most outrageous things I have read on this forum.
Heh.
I am in that 1%, and I bet you'd be surprised how many are.
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